Seben cheap telescopes

[hazemIII]

Hi all,

I saw recently this telescope on amazon : here

It's cheap .. cheaper than the binoculars in fact! Would it be a good telescope? what can possibly go wrong ?

https://www.amazon.de/700-76-Teleskop-Pack-Smartphone-Adapter/dp/B01I3BWICA/ref=sr_1_1?s=ce-de&ie=UTF8&qid=1527263025&sr=1-1&keywords=700-76+Teleskop+Big+Pack

 

Link edited

[Pete Presland]

They have a pretty poor reputation to be honest. I owned a 6" Newtonian for a short period of time, very poor optics, unable to collimate satisfactorily. I guess some people will have had better experiences than myself with them. I think mine might have come from Germany, I sold and bought a 2nd Celestron the difference in build quality was evident as soon as unpacked.  

[hazemIII]

@Pete Presland, I have to ask :D
Poor optics in what sense ? The mirrors is not polished for example or it's mechanically unstable ?

[Pete Presland]

I just could not get the scope collimated, whether this was poor mirror, eyepiece or just the mechanical fixings I was never completely sure. Probably a combination of all three. I thought the mount was pretty unstable as well. I did contact Seben and they were helpful sending me a guide to collimation, which I tried, but I was never happy with it.

That said I believe the zoom eye pieces they sell are regarded as pretty decent value for money eyepieces, not that I have tried one.

Looking on there website I see they still do quite a range of equipment, including some more expensive items. I had the "Big Boss" scope which is 150mm aperture which is still being sold for 180 euros, a Skywatcher equivalent is double the price. So I guess at just over £40 you can not expect too much.

Maybe they improved since I owned one, at least you would have no problem returning it if you are not happy with the quality of the scope.

Have you got access to any 2nd hand markets in Germany?

[hazemIII]

Yeah, I can use ebay.de to get a used scope or student buy and sell groups. the variety is not that much in the telescope section though. 

But it's really tempting to get a scope that cheap :D

[mark81]

My first scope as a kid came with a mount like this one and it seemed to be very weak.  The optics on these cheaper models are quite poor.  Your better off looking on eBay and picking up a 130 explorer on eq3-2 don't they sell for about 70 euro?

[hazemIII]

@mark81, you can get explorer 130 telescope for around 200 euros or so. I was just asking, why this telescope is bad? for a complete beginner like me, it seems that you buy the same thing for a higher price. Of course, I can understand why it's not true, but I have to get my head around it still :D

[celestron8g8]

1 hour ago, hazemIII said:

Hi all,

I saw recently this telescope on amazon : here

It's cheap .. cheaper than the binoculars in fact! Would it be a good telescope? what can possibly go wrong ?

Link: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01I3BWICA/?coliid=I3HC8FSPJBAVE7&colid=3S7KX66JXZ4IN&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

 

I would suggest you signout of amazon when posting your links . I can't read your home language but someone that can might just order stuff under your name and have you pay for their stuff . 

[Stub Mandrel]

13 minutes ago, hazemIII said:

@mark81, you can get explorer 130 telescope for around 200 euros or so. I was just asking, why this telescope is bad? for a complete beginner like me, it seems that you buy the same thing for a higher price. Of course, I can understand why it's not true, but I have to get my head around it still

Those tripods are a nightmare to use, the threaded rod adjustment for up/down (alt) will drive you insane, you would be better off mounting it on a photographic tripod, except it won't have a suitable mounting point.

A 76mm newtonian is quite small so doesn't show faint objects, but that does hide optical weaknesses of the spherical (rather than parabolic) mirror.

I rescued an almost identical 'Jessops' from a mate's skip, I fitted 3D printed scope rings to it so I could use it on a decent tripod. Collimation was possible, but not as easy as a better scope. The focuser is poor quality which makes exact focus tricky.

It was a fun project for a bind-find, but I would suggest you look at this list for scopes that are better quality for not much more money:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes.html

In particular the 'first scope' is another 76mm reflector, but shorter tube so less magnification but still good views, also the simple mount used on a table will beat any cheap flimsy tripod.

[brantuk]

With cheaper scopes, there tends to be less emphasis on "figuring" of the optics and quality of glass/mirror used - just the bare minimum to justify the notion it's a telescope, and they slap it in the tube, often with poor fixings, and pop it on a low quality wobbly mount/tripod. Seben have done a lot of this in the past and their scopes have needed so much modification you may as well have spent the money on something that works outa the box. Imho they're ok as project scopes, or for kids to dabble in the hobby without spending a ton. But if you want a trouble free scope from the get go, up the budget a tad and get a SW 130P. Hth

[hazemIII]

7 minutes ago, celestron8g8 said:

 

I would suggest you signout of amazon when posting your links . I can't read your home language but someone that can might just order stuff under your name and have you pay for their stuff . 

Thanks, I have edited the links

[mark81]

32 minutes ago, hazemIII said:

@mark81, you can get explorer 130 telescope for around 200 euros or so. I was just asking, why this telescope is bad? for a complete beginner like me, it seems that you buy the same thing for a higher price. Of course, I can understand why it's not true, but I have to get my head around it still

I meant a second hand one...

 

[hazemIII]

Just now, mark81 said:

I meant a second hand one...

 

Yeah, me too. the new can cost around 290 or so

[rwilkey]

Hi HazemIII, as others have said, Seben is cheap imitator who offer a lot for very little.  At the end of the day you get what you pay for, if you want rubbish pay a rubbish price.  

[triton1]

It’s what’s called a “bird jones” design which incorporates a lens in the wonky focuser making collimating nigh on impossible,an sw130 on a eq3-2 secondhand would be the way to go.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I saw one of the same scopes in an auction house a few years ago. Price was 10 euros. Nobody bought it. 

[dannybgoode]

The biggest issue with a beginner buying a scope like this is whilst it seems a really good bargain using one can put you off the hobby for life. 

Take delivery, set it up, wait the obligatory two weeks for the clouds to clear and then... disappointment. Difficult to use, poor quality, bad optics all combine to an very off putting first time experience. 

Much better to spend that little bit more and get a quality instrument. 

[tooth_dr]

I started off with a seben scope. Cost me £52. It got me hooked when I was able to see Saturn and image it with a mobile phone back in 2005.  I moved on since then but i definitely wouldn’t say it was a waste of money in the grand scheme of things. 

[Cosmic Geoff]

Astro telescopes that look too cheap can be bad news.  Some years ago I bought a 70mmx700 supermarket telescope that looked amazing value for what I got - a telescope + EQ-2 like mount + accessories.  Except that the performance was uninspiring, and I eventually proved by elimination that the objective lens was no good.  A while later I acquired a vintage brass refractor of the same 70mm aperture at a bargain price, and the optics were superb.  Similar ones now sell for around £300 or more.

I bought a cheap Seben finder that turned out to be rather poor quality. The Seben 8-24 zoom IIRC is not made by Seben but is essentially the same as an adequate zoom sold under various brand names.

[haitch]

6 hours ago, triton1 said:

It’s what’s called a “bird jones” design which incorporates a lens in the wonky focuser making collimating nigh on impossible,an sw130 on a eq3-2 secondhand would be the way to go.

Not to forget the fast spherical mirror compounding the rubbish design.

[hazemIII]

1 hour ago, tooth_dr said:

I started off with a seben scope. Cost me £52. It got me hooked when I was able to see Saturn and image it with a mobile phone back in 2005.  I moved on since then but i definitely wouldn’t say it was a waste of money in the grand scheme of things. 

Really interesting. How was the performance ? What is the draw backs ? 

Guys, We are scientist in general. when I hear bad design, I want to know why it's bad, can it be fixed with a small caveat and so on. I'm well aware know it's a bad telescope, but what can we get out of it ? maybe the eyepiece is nice, maybe the mount is bad so we can get another. I'm sorry of course to cause all this anger  but, 50 euro is really nothing and with some work around it can be a nice add.  

[John]

33 minutes ago, hazemIII said:

Guys, We are scientist in general. when I hear bad design, I want to know why it's bad, can it be fixed with a small caveat and so on. I'm well aware know it's a bad telescope, but what can we get out of it ? maybe the eyepiece is nice, maybe the mount is bad so we can get another. I'm sorry of course to cause all this anger  but, 50 euro is really nothing and with some work around it can be a nice add.  

Why don't you buy one and report back ?

Most of us have an aversion to Seben scopes (a couple of the eyepieces carrying the brand name are known to be OK) but maybe thats based on prejudice rather than personal experience ?

Here is your chance to influence our mindsets !

 

[hazemIII]

2 minutes ago, John said:

Why don't you buy one and report back ?

Most of us have an aversion to Seben scopes (a couple of the eyepieces carrying the brand name are known to be OK) but maybe thats based on prejudice rather than personal experience ?

Here is your chance to influence our mindsets !

 

I intend to  I was checking if it was done before. Beside, I'm a newibe so I have to fight with a lot   
I'll report back  

[haitch]

39 minutes ago, hazemIII said:

Really interesting. How was the performance ? What is the draw backs ? 

Guys, We are scientist in general. when I hear bad design, I want to know why it's bad, can it be fixed with a small caveat and so on. I'm well aware know it's a bad telescope, but what can we get out of it ? maybe the eyepiece is nice, maybe the mount is bad so we can get another. I'm sorry of course to cause all this anger  but, 50 euro is really nothing and with some work around it can be a nice add.  

I’m not quite sure what work you think would correct a fast spherical mirror other than parabolising it or making a cassegrain out of it both of which you would probably achieve better starting from scratch. Also not being able to properly collimate a scope means you are never going to be able to use it at its optimum. Bottom line their 6” reflector probably costs and performs similar to a half decent 3” reflector and is heavier and with an inadequate mount so just save yourself the trouble and get a good 3” unless you only want to buy a scope to look fancy sat in the corner of the room?

[hazemIII]

2 minutes ago, haitch said:

I’m not quite sure what work you think would correct a fast spherical mirror other than parabolising it or making a cassegrain out of it both of which you would probably achieve better starting from scratch. Also not being able to properly collimate a scope means you are never going to be able to use it at its optimum. Bottom line their 6” reflector probably costs and performs similar to a half decent 3” reflector and is heavier and with an inadequate mount so just save yourself the trouble and get a good 3” unless you only want to buy a scope to look fancy sat in the corner of the room?

I was thinking about adding a parabolic field stop inside the tube. of course that would be equivalent to 4-3 inch telescope, I agree. Let me play around with the simulator and see what I can get out of a cheap telescope. It's nice project I guess