M31 with 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

[Guest]

Hi!

I'm 13 and this is my first post on this forum. I've recently started doing Astrophography with a Canon 400D and its kit lens (18-55 mm f/3.5-5.6). The first target i captured is the Great Andromeda Galaxy (M31), mostly due to its brightness. After 3 nights of shooting with an untracked mount, so 5 sec. exposures, collecting 1.800 light frames, of which 800 weren't good, this is the result!

1.042 5 sec. ISO 800 light frames, 1 hour 26 min. 50 sec. of total exposure from the backyard in a Bortle 5 sky. Stacked in DSS and processed in G.I.M.P.

I left into the attachment section the uncompressed TIF file and the G.I.M.P. processing file.

I'm planning to buy a used Canon 60D with a Canon 50mm f/1.8 and/or a Samyang 135mm f/2. Is it any good or should I go on something different?

Daniele.

M31_processed.tif Processing.xcf

Edited September 8, 2022 by AstroOnBudget

[bingevader]

Hello and welcome!

Looks good to me, but I know nothing about AP!
There is a sub-section in the beginners section.

Or a dedicated AP section further down.

They might be able to help.

[beamer3.6m]

Great work.

[Adam1234]

Nice effort considering 5s subs and untracked. Out of the 2 lenses, I'd go with the samyang 135mm so you get a narrower field of view. I haven't got one myself but I've seen people get incredible images with this. There is a huge thread on imaging with this lens 

 

I'd also recommend tracking so that you get get longer exposures and increase your signal-to-noise. A simple star tracker such as the SkyWatcher Star Adventurer or ioptron skyguider pro should be more than sufficient for imaging with a camera and lens

 

 

 

[Marvin Jenkins]

I think you deserve a medal. Over one thousand frames!!!

You captured a galaxy!!!! Never ever forget that. Not only that you are using a kit lense which is far from easy.

Unguided. So you don’t benefit from stronger signal. There is a lot to learn but you have started early and I am sure your future success in AP is assured.

Marv

[callisto]

Keep up the good work 

[Franklin]

The light YOU captured to create your image of M31 took over 2 million years to arrive at your camera lens, wow! The fact that you have produced this image on a budget without tracking or fancy lenses etc, shows amazing dedication from you 👍.

[M40]

Welcome to the site and what a great first image 👌 

[Pitch Black Skies]

Excellent work 👏 well done 👏 

I've heard nothing but good things about the Samyang 135.

You will be one to watch out for in the future I think, very impressive. 

[Clarkey]

Great effort - well done.

Personally, rather than a new camera and lens I would look to get a star tracker mount. Not too expensive and would let you carry out much longer exposures. The 400D will be ok for AP and you could get it modified for nebula work. You can also pick up a multitude of cheap Canon lenses second hand which would be a great starting point.

[Swillis]

Great work and dedication. 

I agree with Clarkey, a tracking mount will enable you to get longer exposures and therefore more signal.  The star adventurer or similar will easily be able to cope with the lens you have and those you have suggested. Going to 135mm without a star tracker will reduce your exposure time even further. Probably to the 1-2sec range. 

The astro classifieds section on here (you need a certain number of posts to get access) is a great source of second hand astro kit. I got my modded DSLR from there, and recently got a Samyang 135 but just waiting for a clear night...

Keep it up and don't be afraid to ask any questions you have.  The folks on here are very knowledgeable and very keen to help

[happy-kat]

Lots to gain from extending to a tracking mount using your existing camera and lens. If into making things then there is a barn door tracker either manually operated or driven that can be made with bits and pieces inexpensively.

[happy-kat]

With a static mount star trail images are fun to do, starstax for stacking them

Edited September 8, 2022 by happy-kat

[pipnina]

Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on capturing such a good first untracked image! I started in the same position with a Nikon D3200 and kit lens.

My advice is that the camera matters a lot less than the lens, and both matter a lot less than being able to take tracked shots! If I were in your shoes, my pocket money / christmas-birthday list would be dedicated to something like a Skywatcher Star Adventurer and strudy tripod. being able to take minute long subs or more will be invaluable to you, as I think DSLRs often have pixels that dip below 0 brightness if the image is too dark, which makes the benefit of stacking considerably reduced!

There is also a great free program called Siril, which can help you remove sky gradients from your image and help you boost the contrast further!

35 minutes ago, Swillis said:

The astro classifieds section on here (you need a certain number of posts to get access) is a great source of second hand astro kit. I got my modded DSLR from there, and recently got a Samyang 135 but just waiting for a clear night...

I think astrobuysell might be a good recommendation too, which might be better than ebay for most used astro kit, since they wouldn't be able to use the classifieds yet as you say.

[alacant]

17 hours ago, AstroOnBudget said:

Canon 60D

Hi

Lovely shot.

You'll notice the superiority of the 60d immediately; the 18mp sensor with its d4 firmware produces far cleaner images.

Neither camera however will last long at 1800 frames per session, so it's a +1 from us for a tracking mount to enable fewer but longer frames.

Lenses. Along with the 75-300, the 18-55 is not perhaps amongst the better lenses Canon have produced. Your idea of a fixed lens is a good one. If you're any good at online auction, an old Asahi or Zeiss 135 can be had for under €50.

HTH

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by alacant

[AstroMuni]

18 hours ago, AstroOnBudget said:

The first target i captured is the Great Andromeda Galaxy (M31), mostly due to its brightness. After 3 nights of shooting with an untracked mount, so 5 sec. exposures, collecting 1.800 light frames, of which 800 weren't good, this is the result!

Welcome! Great perseverance and good first attempt. As others have said adding a tracker will definitely help. I would also recommend you learn a processing software like Siril or Affinity Photo. GIMP is a great tool but these have specific functions to help in AP.

Whats the budget that you have?

Good luck

Edited September 9, 2022 by AstroMuni

[Elp]

Great first image. If you're in it for the long haul the Samyang 135 F2/T2.2 is one of the best pieces of optical equipment I've ever used for AP. Paired with a star tracker you'll be laughing. If you want a budget star tracker the Omegon LX is decent, though I've only used it at 14mm and there's no speed adjustment, and you'll need to think about how to EQ mount it.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, AstroMuni said:

Whats the budget that you have?

I don't have so much budget. 500 € is the max i can reach

[pipnina]

17 minutes ago, AstroOnBudget said:

I don't have so much budget. 500 € is the max i can reach

To me it sounds like a star adventurer is your target then, it should be easily achievable in that budget new, let alone used!

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=189851

Astrobuysell is UK based but for mounts and such sellers might be able to sell to the EU still.

If your tripod is sturdy enough already you won't need to spend any more than that to have a tracking setup, maybe the biggest upgrade you can do right now! If you can share the model name of your tripod or a picture we can help you work out if you need a more rigid one or not

If you wanted to improve more with the money left over in that budget, I'd recommend finding a modified DSLR. This is where someone has taken the camera apart to remove the filter that sits in front of the sensor and blocks infrared light. But the filters are too aggressive for astronomy, and cut out the Hydrogen-alpha emission line, which as you'll discover is almost everywhere! Second hand modified DSLRs can be found on eBay etc, or you can modify a camera yourself.... But there are risks involved with that.

I have modified two cameras, one is fine for astronomy but no longer reduces the aperture of the lens without throwing an error. The other's shutter-mirror timing got nudged out if sync and now tries to take pictures with the shutter closed.

Hope this helps somewhat!

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, pipnina said:

If your tripod is sturdy enough already you won't need to spend any more than that to have a tracking setup, maybe the biggest upgrade you can do right now! If you can share the model name of your tripod or a picture we can help you work out if you need a more rigid one or not

I'm actually using a tripod from a telescope mount (https://www.bresser.de/it/Articoli-di-Fine-Serie/BRESSER-SKYLUX-Refractor-70-700.html) and I 3D printed an adapter to put the camera on

[happy-kat]

you could 3d print a shoe to go in the flash hot shoe to fit a red dot finder, helps with aiming the camera