Purpose of Astronomy Activities

[Rhushikesh-Canisminor]

Hello!

I do not know whether this is the right place or should I put this question in other section.

I am into Astronomy since last 7 years and currently planning for a few Astronomy outreach activities in my region (India), specific for rural/underprivileged schools and colleges, which might require funding from local govt.

But, everywhere, I get one specific question that "what is the use of Astronomy?" And I can't just give generic answer like science popularization etc. So my question is, are there any research work, statistical work done in your region or that you know of which look into impact of Astronomy at school-college level students, like improved academic performance etc.

e.g. International Astronomical Union page mentions that exposure to Astronomy at adolescence years gets more students pursuing science and technology as career.

When I visited San Jose, US, I saw way more planetariums compared to the size of the city. Here, we only have one mainstream planetarium, even though it is quite large and active.

As long as what I am seeing, many European countries have many active Astronomy clubs compared to the population and maybe that's why there is more exposure for the students.

Thanks in advance!

I am not writing any paper or something, just want a concrete answer to why should we show the stars to others.

[ollypenrice]

You have to define 'use.'

The 'use' of a spanner is to loosen a nut. What is the 'use' of loosening a nut? Loosening a nut is useful to remove a wheel. What is the 'use' of removing a wheel? To repair a puncture. What is the use of repairing a puncture? It gets you to the next town. What is the use of getting to the next town? It has a shop which sells spanners. What is the use of a spanner? It will let me remove a different nut. What is the use of removing a different nut? It will let me remove the radiator. What is the use of removing the radiator? It will let me repair the radiator to get to the town if the radiator fails... And so we go round in circles.

Astronomy is different. It has no use. It is an end in itself. Either you want to understand a little more about our place in nature or you don't. If you don't, forget astronomy and add to your collection of useful spanners.

Olly

Edited June 21, 2021 by ollypenrice

[saac]

It is like any other form of intellectual enquiry into the natural world , it is a very instinctive (human) thing to do .  I cannot envisage any age of human existence past, present or future that would not  turn their eyes to the heavens and ask "what is that".   As for evidence of "what use" you need only turn to the most profound human question  - "how did all of this start, where did it (by implication us" come from ".   Astronomy ( cosmology )  provides perhaps the most coherent and tested answer through the Big Bang theory.   That then alone is a pretty potent "use".  For more transferrable and tangible  benefits  of astronomy we could cite the opportunity to gain a variety of skills such as : critical thinking, numerical analysis, statistics, mathematics, discipline of observation,recording and planning.   These are but a few of the skills associated with astronomy, the collection could be expanded pending the type and level of astronomy undertaken.  As for the education curriculum, astronomy already features large in a number of secondary school curriculum around the world (usually allied with Physics) where it provides a gateway qualification  to various University courses.   Oh, and of course the most important use - it is fun , although not everybody gets it  , a bit like jaz in that respect. 

Jim 

Edited June 21, 2021 by saac

[Astro Noodles]

"The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be lighted." - Plutarch

[Franklin]

Knowing when the next asteroid is going to hit planet Earth maybe?

[saac]

9 minutes ago, Franklin said:

Knowing when the next asteroid is going to hit planet Earth maybe?

Yes , or knowing when the next starlink train  transit is going to pollute the view  

Jim 

[Nik271]

I don't think any amateur astronomer is into the hobby because of its practical everyday  usefulness. Once upon a time it was indeed very practically useful, for example for navigation and timekeeping. 

However in order to make sense of the objects we see we need to learn a lot of other sciences, especially physics. So for school students this can be declared very useful. 

There is also the fascinating history of science in which astronomy plays a very big role so again very useful for it's educational value.

[Knighty2112]

Just sit back and enjoy the views through your telescope! 😀

[PEMS]

Best is I suppose enjoyment and hopefully some socialising, even the opposite - escaping from the world (people). Most "hobbies" have in many ways little "purpose".

Throw in What is the purpose of golf? Even fishing has in many ways little purpose, visit a shop and buy a bigger range then you will in general ever catch. And buying them is a lot easier.

[Rhushikesh-Canisminor]

Thanks all for responses! 

For future comments (if there is any), I might make a different point.

Under clear skies, can we consider a  functioning telescope just like a science lab?

And then combine all the things like history etc.

Many of us are kind of used to the astronomy that we might not consider how it is for someone who has never looked at the sky or through a telescope and only exposure is little bit of science literature.

[Astro Noodles]

I don't know about you, but the first time I looked at the moon through a decent telescope was a powerful experience. I'm sure that would be similar for anyone with a bit of interest and an enquiring mind.

The problem with all these things is there are always going to be people who are not interested. You can't force people into museums and galleries any more than you can force people to look through a telescope. But I think it important to encourage people, especially the young to enjoy learning in whatever field they choose, and provide them the opportunities if you can.

[John]

Back when we could still do this, I did regular outreach events with my astro society, both nighttime and daytime (solar observing). Many of the folks who came along to these events had never looked through a telescope before and it was a great experience sharing their reactions, one of my favourite astronomy activities

As well as discussion of what we were looking at, we often discussed history (ie: who first discovered the target), science of course, possible future scenarios. It is a very stimulating experience. I rarely came across anyone who was not intrigued by what lies "out there" and many seemed to welcome the chance to think and talk about things way outside their normal lives / experiences.

I really hope to be able to do this again and "share the skies" as soon as we can safely do so

Quote from John Dobson (inventor of the dobsonian mounted telescope):

"......the importance of a telescope is not how big it is, it's not how well made it is, it's how many people less fortunate than you got to look through it...."

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by John

[Captain Scarlet]

A handful of things that “are what they are” (or were, not necessarily all good), because of Astronomy:

GPS;

The fact that the Sun is at the same place in the sky at the same date&time every year;

Various Empires, owing to the fact that a principal skill-in-trade of a ship’s captain 2-300 years ago was astronomy and spherical trigonometry;

Winston Churchill’s escape and navigation from PoW camp in Pretoria to the coast - he said he used Orion as a guide;

Of course those things aren’t why I and likely you do astronomy. I do it because it boggles my mind to be able to observe such vast differences in scale, and such huge amounts of “stuff” just hanging out there in “nothing”, so easily with merely some good engineering and curved mirrors*. Such beauty.

Good, thought-provoking question!

Magnus

 

 

*some refractors aren’t bad either

 

[wimvb]

When I taught astronomy to my 9th grade students this spring, they wanted the course to answer questions like, where does everything come from; how do stars evolve; what is the big bang; what is dark matter; how large is the universe; is there life in the universe besides us?

For me, and for them, astronomy is the science that tries to figure out the really big questions: where do we come from; what is our place in the universe; what will the future bring?

If we only pursue activities that have practical use, we might still be cave dwellers. Scientists don't study nature (in its broadest sense) in order to develop new technology. They do science to satisfy their curiosity, to find out things that no one else knows. Technology is just a nice byproduct.

When I was a researcher, I spent four years figuring out how certain materials change when you shoot ions at them, and how you can repair them afterwards. The conclusion after those four years was, try to avoid shooting ions at these materials, because you'll mess them up for good. But, boy, did I have fun while doing what I did. And I did have several moments of sheer bliss, when I had discovered something that no one else knew.

Addendum:

The practical use of my research could be titled:

"How NOT to make high speed lasers for fibreoptic communication"

Edited June 21, 2021 by wimvb

[Mr Spock]

I sometimes think the purpose of astronomy activities is to empty my bank account... 😜

[adyj1]

It appears I should have been spending the money on spanners 😂 

[Mr Spock]

Humans do have inquisitive minds. It's how we progress as a species. Without that a lot of the scientific advances we have made would not have happened.

[Roy Challen]

5 hours ago, adyj1 said:

It appears I should have been spending the money on spanners 😂 

I actually did spend all my money on spanners when I was younger. Didn't enjoy it much, view was rubbish.

[Jiggy 67]

Let’s not forget something as simple as mental health. Especially through the pandemic, I have found something as simple as standing in the freezing cold, in my back garden, concentrating on trying to find a mind blowing distant object through a telescope and then making notes on my observations, extremely useful and helpful…..far better for my mental health than sitting in front of Netflix every night!!…….though there is a place for Ozark as well 

[Franklin]

11 hours ago, saac said:

Yes , or knowing when the next starlink train  transit is going to pollute the view  

Jim 

The curse of Mankind. Not content with polluting the enviroment of our precious little planet Earth, they are now polluting outer space! Whatever next?

[Froeng]

The use of astronomy in my mind is to show - in a first hand experience - the concept of enlightenment. Seeing Jupiter as a planet with its moons with your own eyes teaches you to recognise reality and facts. This is particularly important in this age where people tend to believe what they are told, often by so called “influencers” who don’t know themselves what they are talking about.
Open your eyes and see… ! It is the first step to develop an enquiring mind and to be sceptical about “fake truths/news/etc”. 
Explaining how the actual light from Jupiter has reached one’s eyeball through the simple reflection on some mirrors is a brilliant way to show what “reality” looks like.

It is probably one of the most “useful” hobbies in this regard…

Edited June 22, 2021 by Froeng

[kirkster501]

To quote JFK in his Rice University speech:

"But why, some say, The Moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?"

Why play football?  What purpose does it serve?  Why play Cricket?  Why go on holiday?  We do not live just to exist.  We live to explore, to learn.  That is what makes us human.  That is what differentiates us from the rest of the beasts and birds of this planet.

 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

A telescope opens the door to the biggest science lab in the universe: the universe itself. I have seen the motions of planets and moons under the force of gravity, or planet-sized storms rage on Jupiter, I have seen magnetic storms rage across the surface of our sun, and matter being blown away from the same surface, I have seen stars explode, and their ghostly remnants glow thousands of years after the explosion, I have seen light generated by unimaginable forces as matter got sucked into the vortex of a supermassive black hole, billions of years in the past.

No practical demonstration in the classroom can beat that (although seeing our chemistry teaching setting his work bench on fire in class did leave quite an impression (and a lasting scorch mark on the ceiling))

[Tiny Clanger]

15 hours ago, Rhushikesh-Canisminor said:

I am into Astronomy since last 7 years and currently planning for a few Astronomy outreach activities in my region (India), specific for rural/underprivileged schools and colleges, which might require funding from local govt.

But, everywhere, I get one specific question that "what is the use of Astronomy?" And I can't just give generic answer like science popularization etc. So my question is, are there any research work, statistical work done in your region or that you know of which look into impact of Astronomy at school-college level students, like improved academic performance etc.

If you are asking for local government funding, then I suspect the awe and wonder arguments , whilst exactly what  I'd give to  try to enthusea member of the public , would not have any effect . The people holding the purse are probably only interested in money (which is why they got the job ...) so you want a solid, financial basis for your request . I don't think 'pure' astronomy will give you anything they would appreciate, any more than the study of Renaissance painting, or Shakespeare's sonnets or pure mathematics would .

However, what might support your cause with clear statistics and economic benefits would be the applications of the theoretical knowledge gained by astronomers, and the employment opportunities open to graduates in the subject . For instance ,  India has recently become a country with the ability to launch large satellites into space  , and can provide that service (at a cost) for other countries, astronomers will have been involved in that financially huge, successful project's set up and its continuing development , which has enormous economic implications for communications and GPS systems. wikipedia  has this quote, and if these numbers don't make the money men impressed, they probably don't know how many zeros there are after a figure in billions :

"In 2019, the space industry of India accounted for $7 billion or 2% of the global space industry and employed more than 45,000 people. Antrix Corporation expects the industry to grow up to $50 billion by 2024 if provided with appropriate policy support"

Weather forecasting  is an area of employment I know astrophysics graduates have taken , as is climatology and the implications of global warming to future weather patterns, flooding, agriculture etc. , a financially important and urgent areas of study. Disaster management is an unfortunate but important topic where satellites provide planners and rescuers with invaluable information too.

Heather

 

[Guest]

Perhaps it's wrong to think of Astronomy in isolation. Would it be better to put it forward as another branch of science? There is so much cross over in the sciences and astronomy has aspects of physics, chemistry, maths and geology - even biology. I'm sure you can think of others. Advances in one branch spill over into others.

A few years ago I was lucky to take part in an Open University residential course and we had an evening lecture by an OU astronomer who gave a talk about star creation and destruction. He demonstrated some computer models of the processes and I was just blown away.  I really wanted to do that. Unfortunately it wasn't possible but if I were younger that's what I'd do.  Astronomy is not all about telescopes. Those computer models incorporated branches of physics, maths, chemistry and computer science - something for everyone.