Wish I had GOTO

[Richard Hather]

My first telescope was a Celestron Nexstar 6SE Goto scope and I love it.

Ive had it for just over a year and I've grown fond of sketching the DSOs I see and when I'm particularly impressed the planets also.

I do believe if I didn't have this aspect to observing it would get a little boring just punching in a keypad what you want to see next with no real effort.

But spending 1 hour or more taking in every detail of an object and creating a sketch is something that keeps me utterly obsessed with this wonderful passion.

But again each to there own for me i couldn't be happier ?

Richard

[happy-kat]

3 hours ago, popeye85 said:

I started out with a goto and now have  manual and I must say I much prefer the manual ( Although I do admit that tracking would be useful!). I defo have found that 'the hunt' is part of the fun and I thnk I would get bored without that aspect. goto is too easy in my view!

The star discovery will do just tracking with manual finding I thought. My virtuoso does.

[ronin]

A goto is very useful, especially the tracking. Most especially the tracking. Finding something is fine, keeping it there is the real pain in the rear.

The alignment does take time but I read posts of people with assorted electronics to do it for them and usually it is tales of woe and disaster ot how long it takes. I can set up my simply one in about 3 miuntes. Amusing as many GPS unts take 3 minutes to get data from sufficent satellites. Does seems that a manual alignmet is forgotten about but actually can be quicker.

You learn the sky fast with a goto, simply you never quite trust it, so when you ask it to goto something you always have an idea of where the object is and so where the mad box of electronics should go to. Never worked out where the idea of a goto means you do not learn the sky came from. Just go read the posts that say "I asked it got goto X and it went no where near it!", if they have learnt nothing how do they know it went no where near X, most will give an idea of how far off it was. So a very good idea of the sky indeed. I tend to look around to decide what is visible to tell the goto to go to. Means I learn a good selection of things.

Problem of a goto is power, that can be a tricky area. Then data, amazing how many people enter data, it never works and they refuse to accept that just maybe they got it wrong somewhere, and it is relatively easy to get wrong.

Easy thing is if you want one get one, the choice is yours. Nothing wrong in one. Last I knew Hubble was a goto and when they throw it up there so will the James Webb scope, as are all the big scope around the world. Those ones in Chile and on the Canaries do not have a little man nudging them. OK, never been to any so just maybe they might, but I have never hear of a position of employment for a telescope nudger. Person I know that spent 4 weeks on one of the scopes in the Canaries never mentioned a nudger, but when I see them I will enquire. Then again she would lie.

Is there in a way any difference?

Manually you look up where M1 should be (goto reads positional data in electronic form), you go outside and search around to orientate yourself, (goto alignment), you then nudge the scope to point at M1 (tell the goto to go to M1). Scary ????

[Moonshane]

GOTO is very impressive when it's working well. When it's not working well, you see lots of threads about frustration with GOTO!

I personally find everything manually and still enjoy doing so. I have started to appreciate tracking though and my mount of choice for solar system objects, and nights where I am looking at a small number of objects/sketching is now a basic, driven EQ5. I cannot see this changing for the foreseeable future but who knows.

The main thing is enjoy what you do and if you think GOTO will enhance enjoyment then GOTO it! 

[Peco4321]

Loads or replies thanks all, will read them tomorrow. Just got in after another frustrating session but at the end I found the sombrero galaxy so chuffed again now. Managed about 15 mins of 30 seconds on it as well. 

[John]

Once you get the hang of finding things manually, it's far quicker than using GOTO I reckon. Most of my society colleagues use GOTO scopes. While they are still setting theirs up, getting the power sorted, polar aligning and picking their alignment stars, I've set my dob up and I'm busy picking off objects and showing them to guests. Tonight I found the 2 comets in Hercules in a few minutes with a low power eyepiece and my ED120 refractor. By the time a GOTO is up and running you can loose a clear patch of sky. 

It's clever stuff and I've owned 2 or 3 GOTO mounts but even then I've tended to use them as driven mounts only and bypassed the GOTO facility and setup.

But if the facility improves your enjoyment of the hobby then thats great  - go for it !

 

 

[happy-kat]

^ which is why I like the Virtuoso mount it can be all three. Fully manual, tracking or goto. So I'm not tied to having to align it before I can use it. 

[Fypunky]

We are awaiting our first GOTO (being delivered today)mount/ tripod. We originally bought my daughter the scope without so she could learn the skies and the stars.

Not long after I updated the red dot to a telrad as she was struggling with the red dot, this helped massively in finding objects and star hopping, however she has still struggled to find some of the fainter DSO's and over time she became less interested so I have decided to try and regain her interest by using GOTO.

Fingers crossed

[andrew s]

9 hours ago, John said:

But iff the facility improves your enjoyment of the hobby then thats great  - go for it !

I think this is the key to it all. It is up to each of us to enjoy the our hobby in our own way.

I did the eye frozen to the brass RAS eyepiece in my youth but now I am lucky enough to have an observatory. I can go out push back the roof and switch on the kit launch the control program I have written and the first spectra will be being taken before I get back in the house.

Not for everyone but my eyesight is not that good the sky is bright and lets face it I am a lazy astronomer! In more than 50 years in the hobby I still don't know the sky. That's what star catalogs and planetarium programs are for are they not!

The important bit is to enjoy the hobby. I like making kit, bending it to my will through programming, studying astrophysics, analysing my spectra... ...oh and keeping warm while doing it.

Regards Andrew

[JOC]

As folks on here with attest to my experience with Goto has been a bit of a baptism of fire.  However, I am now convinced that it is all down to not applying RTFlM.  On having a closer read there is a def. order to setting it up and you have to start with it in the correct position before you connect anything.  Since the FTFlM shaft of light hit me with the support of SGL members I haven't yet got back outside with it, however, I do not believe that I will have any more problems with it - correct set-up seems to be the key, and now I have seen the light I can forsee the process not taking longer than 3-4 minutes.  Despite my initial problems I think it will be worth persevering with.

[tooth_dr]

Say you want to go somewhere nice in the car, but dont know the way.  You either spend the whole day trying to find it using paper maps or you use satnav (goto).  Some folks dont mind spending the whole day in the car, and enjoy the whole experience.  Others (especially those with kids) just want to get there.  I'm in the latter group, and enjoy my Goto.   I know where some stuff is at roughly ie what constellation etc and can find a few easy things with binos eg M31, Kembles Cascade, Double cluster etc.  I even have a copy of turn left at Orion, and have tried it, but I would never buy a scope without GoTo i dont think, it's a worthy upgrade.

[swamp thing]

18 hours ago, Peco4321 said:

I guess everyone at some stage reaches the point when the romanticism of searching for objects and the delight in finding them, is overtaken by the frustration of wasted hours of scarce clear sky time and just wishing you had a good GOTO system. 

No

I would like a nexus system at some point to help identify exactly which Galaxy I'm looking at. It is sometimes difficult to be sure of which one is which when in a large group of them but Goto nah! 

 

[JonC]

With a GOTO mount you can use it manually or you can use the GOTO function, you can choose. For most of my visual I vaguely align the mount north and either release the clutches and manually move the scope, or use the handset. I tend to set the GOTO up only if I am doing photography or struggling to find something. Once I had an idea of the scope I wanted for AP, and the payload of mounts, and wanting tracking, the extra cost of a 2nd hand GOTO (HEQ5Pro) wasn't that much more than the non GOTO.

[cotterless45]

I started out with binoculars , a red head torch and charts. Then came a small Dob, followed by a larger Dob and a frac. Then came along more interest and I wanted to spend more time observing beyond Messier's.

This clashed with our very changeable weather and unreliable forecasts, both which have worsened over the last few years. A goto mount has given many many hours of observing.

It's not too easy to star hop when you have some light pollution. I still very much enjoy taking the Dob on holiday , setting up and finding targets under dark skies.

I'd recommend that before anyone gets goto, they not only know the sky , but are aware of the care that must be put into levelling,polar alignment, balancing and star alignment . A guy I know just uses Vixen setting circles, there are benefits to any system, so long as you enjoy under ,

Clear Skies ! Nick.

[AstroKane]

I do not have GOTO and it is a one of the top requirements on my next scope. I liked the idea of finding objects manually at first because I was learning the sky - But the ability to 'observe' is so much easier if the scope is auto tracking that I now pretty much just use my binos.

[laser_jock99]

On 24/04/2017 at 19:55, DaveS said:

I couldn't be without GOTO, imaging time is too precious to waste faffing around. Even when I only had the HEQ5 on a tripod it made a huge difference. Now my mount is on a pier I can put the target bang in the middle of the field.

I have done my time finding objects by eye and setting circles with an undriven eq mount.

Couldn't agree more- imaging time is too short to waste time looking for objects which are not bright enough to find anyway! A good 3 star alignment will usally get me close to target object. If things are going well the accuracy of GOTO can be amazing.

My EQ6 mount was able to automatically slew to the Cocoon Nebula in Cygnus last weekend with pinpoint acuracy- slap bang in the middle of the camera frame. Okay you might say- but then consider the scope is 1200mm focal length and the Cocoon just 12 arc minutes across!!

IC5146 Cocoon Nebula, Cygnus- 12x 300s + 5x 600s, 12" F4 Newtonian scope, Baader MPCC III, Canon 40D (full spectrum mod), from dark sky site in Mid Wales. by laserjock99, on Flickr

[niallk]

I star hopped with my 10" dob with a Telrad and a finderscope, but use Argo Navis push-to on my 15" to help find the fainter stuff. I still have a Telrad, but no finderscope (eases balance).  AN can also identify objects as you come across them.

It takes <1min to align, and is very robustly accurate - no fuss.  The batteries last a long time, and I keep a pack of 4 AA batteries spare just in case.  No motors => no major power draw.

I definitely do feel that I miss that 'thrill of the hunt' and satisfaction of finding objects for the first time by hopping, though.

However, I now see so much more on the all to infrequent nights that weather+moon+life combine to allow me get out with the scope!  I can locate objects quickly, and then give more time to dwelling on them to tease out details.

Tracking is something I really wanted for my 10" on solar system targets - so I bought an eq platform, which will also take the weight of my 15"... However I rarely use it for the 10" tbh, and Ive never used it with the 15". I find that I can track manually very satisfactorily at 420x and even higher - and I use wide fov EPs.

I agree with the comment about a chair - I find sitting down really good when studying solar system targets - less subtle wobbling at the EP!  The low altitudes of the planets over the next few years particularly lend themselves to sitting ?

[JOC]

I must admit I too struggle with the notion that the Goto means you don't learn your way around the sky.  When I've had it working the Goto has been quite instructive - I know where a lot of objects are now that I didn't last November (telescope bought in December).  It's difficult to work out the reasoning around people not thinking that it is less 'educational'.  I don't know how many people out there let the things drive and peer through the EP's and never look up to see exactly where they have been plonked, I certainly don't.  On the contrary I think you will find the majority of Goto users probably know exactly where we have been plonked within minutes of arriving and could then go back there manually.  In fact with my telescope it is sold on the basis that to save in the time it could take to drive itself there you can roughly shunt the telescope to where the object is and then let the Goto do the final positioning - to do this would require prior knowledge of where you want to end up (as I think was alluded to above).

Mind you the reason I bought the telescope with the Goto was probably more for the tracking.  I liked the idea of the Dobson when SGL were helping me - simple, foolproof, cheap, light-gathering etc.  However, I knew that my family were going to want to look too and they wouldn't be able to get the hang of gentle nudging - let alone the time taken for everyone to take a peak (they had experimented with my Ex's many years ago - I still recall the hilarity of cries of 'I can't see the [mild expletive] moon' when it was by far the largest thing in the sky!).  So, when I found I could one of these lovely Dobson telescopes with a finding things computer and that could stay on an object for upwards of half hour at a time it sounded an ideal solution and I am pleased with it for my needs - some might argue that I should have spent the extra cash on a larger mirror, but looking at what I have we couldn't have managed much bigger for regular use and I am really pleased that I went with the tracking system - the Goto bit is just an added plus.

[John]

I think GOTO is a great boon for those that want it. As I said in my earlier post, if it increases your enjoyment of the hobby, then go for it. It's a means to an end, the end being either enjoyable views or nice images.

My only concern is that the GOTO facility adds a fair chunk to the price of the scope so if you are on a really tight budget, you have to compromise quite a bit on the optics of the scope to get the GOTO. If you have a healthy budget then you can have a great scope on a nice GOTO mount = "win win".

Personally, for many of my years in the hobby, I was on a tight budget but I wanted the best views I could get per £ spent so I was prepared to forgo GOTO in exchange for aperture and optical potential. Now my budget is better, I don't really need GOTO 

There really is no "right" and "wrong" way over this. We have so many choices today and the vast majority is really good stuff 

 

 

[JOC]

Oh, I forgot to add that if you are in a hurry the Goto (as I did allude above), doesn't stop me spotting Jupiter and a clear spot in the sky dashing into the porch to lift the scope and stand outside, lining Jupiter and the scope up with the top of the kids swing (I have the space to have a bit of shift around), grabbing a handy EP and being on Jupiter in about 3 minutes flat from sitting in my front room.  The Goto system on my set-up certainly has no issues with if you want to use the scope manually (though I get the impression this isn't the case with all of the electronic systems?)

[Stu]

I use a variety of mounts depending upon what I'm doing.

For quick sessions in the garden or traveling abroad on holiday I'm completely manual on a Giro-WR. If star hopping I find this easier than using a manual EQ mount.

For longer sessions on planets or the sun I use a Vixen GP EQ mount (EQ5 equivalent) with dual axis drives so I have tracking which I do find useful to avoid continuous nudging.

With my C9.25 I use an AZEQ5 with SkyFi, and just find it far easier and quicker locating things, particularly under my light polluted skies. I can find quite a range of objects without maps or assistance but does n't feel like I'm cheating if I use Goto. It is often slower waiting for the mount to slew around than it would be for me to find known objects myself, but with this mount you can always loosen the clutches and manually move it to target, the encoders ensure it stays aligned.

As Steve mentioned, a Nexus unit is a great addition to a big dob, it allows you to do the driving, but helps confirm targets when you are lost in a sea of galaxies!

Each one is a valid way of observing, there should not be any snobbery about manually finding things vs Goto, they each have their place.

[Fypunky]

Well we have now been out twice with the new goto and we have been very impressed with it however I am starting to realise the power issues already as we are using batteries. 

May I hijack the thread a little and ask if a 12v 2amp power supply would be okay to run the skywatcher synscan az goto. I suspect it should be as the manual says 12v 1amp min and at the moment we will be using it around 85_90% of the time in the garden? 

 

[cloudsweeper]

7 hours ago, Fypunky said:

Well we have now been out twice with the new goto and we have been very impressed with it however I am starting to realise the power issues already as we are using batteries. 

May I hijack the thread a little and ask if a 12v 2amp power supply would be okay to run the skywatcher synscan az goto. I suspect it should be as the manual says 12v 1amp min and at the moment we will be using it around 85_90% of the time in the garden? 

 

Batteries are a dead loss.  I use a Halford's Phaze Jumpstarter with my Celestron GoTo.  It comes with the necessary lead - probably the same one that you need, but check first!

Charge it up after every use, and it's fine - no trouble at all in about a year of use so far.

Doug.

[Fypunky]

Thanks Doug will look into it for our mobile sessions.

It was a light bulb moment last night and didnt make it clear.

What i have is a 240v AC/ 12v DC 2 amp power supply from an old external hard drive see piccy.

[Ouroboros]

On 24 April 2017 at 21:11, Chris Lock said:

 

I've gone back and fourth between goto and manual/driven mounts over the years, but more recently I haven't been that bothered about Goto since having Skysafari 5 on my phone (I was a bit late to the smart phone party!) 

My current digs have a restricted view of the sky in most direction, similar to Eric by the sounds of things, so all I tend to do know day's is point my phone at a part of the sky I can actually see, zoom in on an object of interest, then simply point my scope in that direction and sweep around locally for the the object until i find it.

This works really well, so I can see the benefit of a phone/tablet app over the old hand controller. It might be contraversial to say, but I think maybe the hand controller might become a thing of the past pretty soon 

Yes, the hand controller does seem a bit 80s in this day and age doesn't it.  I must say I rarely use the handset now. Even when only doing visual I tend to connect to the mount with my MacBook and use ASCOM to polar alig and star align, and Cartes du Ciel planetarium software to navigate the skies. I also find a Gamepad better for fine adjusting the mount. 

One night recently I had to revert to the handset because of connection problems, now solved. I had to really think hard about how to use it to polar align and star align.

Regarding GOTO, mounts like the SW AZ-EQ6 don't lend themselves particularly well to manual pointing. You can do it, but it's just so much easier to use the mount in the way for which it is designed, which is for use with GOTO.