The risks of second hand equiptment.

[garryblueboy]

2 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

Probably the most accurate description, certainly tallies with my experiences.

Perhaps I should have quoted this it wasn’t directed personally 

Edited March 12, 2020 by garryblueboy

[Carbon Brush]

4 hours ago, johninderby said:

While a lot of ads from one seller does raise suspicions I consider if it’s just random or somone upgrading and getting rid of now uneeded items and raising money for the new gear.

Exactly John. Maybe honest, maybe not.

There are people on UKABS claiming to be private sellers with well over 500 archived adverts. Yes I know the site has been running for a few years.
But 500 'must have' followed by 'don't like'. Or 500 'that was interesting last week but now I'm bored with it'.

Perhaps it is indicative of being indecisive. Can I get back to you on this later?😁

David.

[johninderby]

[Adam J]

removed

Edited March 15, 2020 by Adam J

[whipdry]

I have over 120 expired sale/wanted ads on ABS with only 11 being successful, just makes me an unsuccessful seller/buyer.

I think the definition of a dealer is someone who makes a profit selling things. 

 

Peter

 

[tomato]

On 11/03/2020 at 19:22, newbie alert said:

It only covers the initial buyer, not the second one

 

FLO was the retailer, so I think it was a safe bet.

 

 

[Stu]

On 12/03/2020 at 22:07, Carbon Brush said:

Exactly John. Maybe honest, maybe not.

There are people on UKABS claiming to be private sellers with well over 500 archived adverts. Yes I know the site has been running for a few years.
But 500 'must have' followed by 'don't like'. Or 500 'that was interesting last week but now I'm bored with it'.

Perhaps it is indicative of being indecisive. Can I get back to you on this later?😁

David.

Perhaps you should try to understand people a little better before levelling accusations at them?

I probably fall into that category, but am neither a trader, nor am I indecisive. I also try to be as up front and honest in my descriptions and would always sort out any issues which a buyer had with something they bought off me. No one has ever complained to date. I have sold on things fairly quickly where I did not get on with or enjoy them, but not anything with an undisclosed problem. I have taken hefty losses on certain scopes when I have, perhaps made poor buying decisions but that is life. Inhave sold, for instance, a Baader Zeiss prism with scratches on the prism, all disclosed and offered at a very low price despite still performing well.

Most of the time I just like trying out a variety of different scopes and eyepieces, and have good and bad financial times so sell kit when I need to raise funds. I have a few scopes I consider permanent (FC100, OO 8" f8) but most others I am just the temporary custodian of. I've just sold my Sumerian Alkaid 14", a scope I loved. This was to free up a substantial amount of cash tied up in something I only got to use infrequently, but really enjoyed when I did. I felt like I had had good times with it, had seen what it could do under excellent skies but could no longer justify the investment.

So far, I have not had any really bad experiences. I returned via a PayPal dispute a pair of binoculars (they were only about £25), but they were described as perfect optically yet had fungus on the prisms! Outside that there have been a few minor niggles but nothing bad. I once had a 12" f6 scope shipped down from Scotland which arrived with some damage to the secondary assembly. However, the seller and I had agreed how it should be packaged, and he had done exactly as agreed so I had no complaints and sorted it out myself.

I've bought and sold expensive scopes from overseas with no problems, although it is worrying when waiting for the scope to arrive! I find that a chat on the phone quickly tells you the sort of person you are dealing with, and almost without exception I have enjoyed talking to and meeting all the people I have traded with.

So, it is quite possible to buy and sell alot of kit for person use, honestly and without being a trader.

[Ricochet]

The high number of adverts might also be a symptom of the way that ABS works. If an item is not sold quickly then the item might get bumped with a repeat advert so it is at the start of the (reverse date ordered) list. Each bump is a new advert and +1 to that user's advert count. I just looked at one advert, pretty much at random, and the user's profile shows 14 active adverts for that one unsold item. That number of adverts/item changes a 10 year old account with 500 adverts from selling one item every week to selling one every 3 or 4 months. 

[Adam J]

On 12/03/2020 at 22:07, Carbon Brush said:

Exactly John. Maybe honest, maybe not.

There are people on UKABS claiming to be private sellers with well over 500 archived adverts. Yes I know the site has been running for a few years.
But 500 'must have' followed by 'don't like'. Or 500 'that was interesting last week but now I'm bored with it'.

Perhaps it is indicative of being indecisive. Can I get back to you on this later?😁

David.

Well from my perspective if they have 500 sold items then they must be a good seller as if they had sold so many dodgy items they would have been banned long ago.

[Craney]

My perpective on this,  having bought all my equiptment second hand over the last four years or so.......

Overall, really very good.   Only one turkey and that was a mount that I bought in an Observatory clear out with a load of other stuff.   I think the owner had taken it apart and forgot to put a part back.  This meant I could never get PHD to calibrate in Declination..... it was discovered when somebody who knew there stuff serviced it for me.  Thing is, I would never have tested the mount 'on-site' ('on-sight'  ? )  to that precision when I viewed it, and with all the other bundled stuff it came in at a reasonable price anyway.    So, slightly miffed that it was not in 'working' order.

Apart from that, nothing really.  I feel much happier buying off an SGL member than anywhere else.  Having a portfolio of images /observations gives you the confidence that the seller is genuine and is passing something on which is cared for.

My only other grump are sellers who give out their payment details without confirming that you are the one designated as the purchaser.   Nothing fraudalent, it just raises your hopes that you have nabbed a bargain or that elusive piece of kit that you have been waiting 4 months to turn up.  Then, you get the message,  "Sold already, sorry....",  oh.... surely you knew that before you gave out your payment details......   <grump><grump>.....

[Carbon Brush]

In response to @Stu and @Adam J   Thank you for your comments and apologies for any offence caused. I honestly didn't think that my 'off the cuff' comment would be so controversial.
Sorry if it has caused upset. Yes the majority of people on the site are honest. The helpful SGL or other site ID gives a buyer the ability to look into the buyer.

A back of envelope calculation shows that to get 500 adverts, you would need to advertise something weekly for 10 years.
There are people with well over this count. Yes some do post repeat ads for the same item. But not everyone.

I used to regularly look at the site. I have to say that the equipment sale pattern of a number of 'regular sellers' did not match up with trying out new kit.
Usually I would expect someone out to try new kit would to sell assorted filters, eyepieces, etc. An occasional scope or mount. Not (for example) entry level scope packages at intervals.

Then of course there was the guy from Spain who pleaded poverty with me about something I had for sale. Could I reduce price, etc, etc.
He knew all about shipping options to Spain. When I checked, he regularly posted sale adverts for all sorts of kit. An obvious reseller.

I don't know how diligent UKABS are these days about banning dodgy dealers. When Paul ran the show some years back he was on the ball if something was not right.
He was very diligent about rogue identification and banning. I remember one in particular who took payment for the same few items to several different people.
Paul removed his adverts and access very quickly. The police got involved and everyone got their money back.
The villain was also an SGL member. I include this just to show the rogues can be anywhere. But that is another story.

Sorry for the controversy.

David.

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Carbon Brush

[mikeDnight]

I think that for many, the equipment side of things is as much a part of the hobby as the astronomy itself. I know several enthusiasts who regularly circulate their equipment so as to fund the next purchase. So really its the same money being reinvested rather than new money. I consider them extremely valuable members of our somewhat nutty/enthusiastic astro family. I've reinvested quite a lot of really high end stuff over the years, but only because I needed to liberate the cash for my next buy. 

[Stu]

3 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

Sorry for the controversy

No hard feelings David 👍👍😁.

There are indeed rogues everywhere so buyer beware always applies. I've only once nearly fallen for a scam when I placed a wanted ad and someone responded with exactly what I was after. It was only via some email comms which just didn't quite ring true that I picked up that all was not well. The guy got quite aggressive in the end.

There are some that just try it on and try to get a discounted price through sheer persistence. I won't sell to them if that's the case.

There is actually a case in my local group currently who bought a mount from someone off ABS, which has turned out to have undisclosed problems. If that were me I would certainly push back to the seller for assistance sorting it out, particularly as they were reassured that no problems existed 

[LDW1]

On 10/03/2020 at 19:55, Adam J said:

No, its not subjective. Stuff like clearly de-centered optics in a expensive triplet giving clearly bad stars and stripped threads on a mount where bolts have been over tightened only found when trying to make an adjustment in use and the bolt just spins with no resistance.

I would not be at all bothered by cosmetic issues.

 

Adam

So how hard / expensive is it to change a bolt or two ? Can you not adjust / correct the optics ? Its not a complete loss, its just maddening ! Maybe the savings in what you paid for it offset a bit of it all ?  Clear Skies !

[Pete Presland]

I have bought and sold lots of items over 10 years on Astro buy and sell, only had a real problem once, most people are very honest and reliable. A google search on the interested party usually shows whether they are a genuine buyer/seller. Unfortunately for me this didn't help, on the one occasion i had an issue 🙂   

[garryblueboy]

A big 👍for the used adds where would we be with out them 

[JeremyS]

2 hours ago, garryblueboy said:

A big 👍for the used adds where would we be with out them 

Err, I’d probably be a lot richer and have more room in my house

🤣

[johninderby]

Those people that offer tempting items in the sale section have done real damage to my bank account. They have a lot to answer for. 😁🤣😂

[Rick_It]

A thing to consider when buying second-hand is the higher probability of getting a lemon.

Suppose you buy a new C8: you will be much more likely to resell it if it is a lemon (say 1/3 wave PV) than if it is a fine scope (say 1/6 wave PV). This is expecially true for mass produced scope with some variability in their quality. I'm not talking about a specific scope, I'm referring to the chances of getting a good scope.

Of course, this is not an issue for Tak, Televue etc..

Edited March 16, 2020 by Rick_It

[JOC]

The only thing I got brand new was my telescope from FLO, mind you since then I've seen many instances where if I had waited I could have bought it for half what I paid and would have been happy to do so.  However, at the time I got it when I wanted it and it was nice to have something new for a change - I am a big 2nd hand buyer.  However, all my EP's etc. have come from SGL classifieds.  I try not to look as these have relieved me of so much cash over the years.  However, I am still looking as there is just one more EP that I want to get and I am still hopeful that one day it will come up 2nd hand, then after that I am promising myself I will look no longer and the bank account will be safe.

[garryblueboy]

7 hours ago, JeremyS said:

Err, I’d probably be a lot richer and have more room in my house

🤣

Just think without secondhand you would be out on the street and poor 😂🤣😂 

[garryblueboy]

1 hour ago, Rick_It said:

A thing to consider when buying second-hand is the higher probability of getting a lemon.

Suppose you buy a new C8: you will be much more likely to resell it if it is a lemon (say 1/3 wave PV) than if it is a fine scope (say 1/6 wave PV). This is expecially true for mass produced scope with some variability in their quality. I'm not talking about a specific scope, I'm referring to the chances of getting a good scope.

Of course, this is not an issue for Tak, Televue etc..

Not really as if it’s a lemon you take it back that’s why you buy new and pay 100% of the the new price also I know a couple people who have brought Televue scopes and they were sent back  to be re collimated  

Edited March 16, 2020 by garryblueboy

[Timebandit]

 

 

Like most items when buying new, there is a drop in the value of the item after purchase.

But buying second hand has been quite a good investment for me personally. Just having a quick look round at my second hand kit ,and comparing it to similar items that have sold on the secondary market in recent times. I have lost no money on the second hand items that I have purchased, if anything the second hand items that I have purchased through the years have increased in value. So I have had a fee free hobby ,that seemingly has made me an increased value in my investment. Can't really complaint about that. So  a 👍 for quality used gear 

 

 

 

[Frank the Troll]

Pretty much most of my kit has breen brought second hand from this forum, and have had no problems

When selling off items I then want to pass on to fund other items, I drop the price from what I paid for it, and some have had bargins, would rather someone made use of it, than end up just gathering dust or rust

I just wish peeps that want to sell stuff I want, not do it so often, my wish list is already long enough

[Second Time Around]

1 hour ago, JOC said:

 after that I am promising myself I will look no longer and the bank account will be safe.

As my wife would say to me, "Yeah, right!"