The risks of second hand equiptment.

[mikeDnight]

I wouldn't hesitate to ask for my money back. Most sellers would honour that without much of an issue, and if there's a major fault, they'ed simply have no choice.

[Saganite]

Good advice Garry. I have met Es Reid, a great person and I am sure he would be able to sort it out. I would still contact the seller first though.

[garryblueboy]

45 minutes ago, Saganite said:

Good advice Garry. I have met Es Reid, a great person and I am sure he would be able to sort it out. I would still contact the seller first though.

Totally agree Steve the seller should have a chance to put it right 

[Space Hopper]

I've never had any issues buying used stuff, and i sell plenty as well, be it on here, on UKAB/S or privately.

Having said that i only tend to buy and sell premium stuff anyway that is tried and tested and well regarded.

Most of what i have purchased used is fairly small ; things like eyepieces for eg.

I once brought an eyepiece that absolutely stunk of cigarettes ; it was a 24mm Panoptic.

I gave it a good clean and left it outside  in its box for a few days and it was fine. 

I still have the eyepiece today, and its one of my most used and best performing eyepieces.

 

In this hobby, i like to think we are all friends, and take good care of our precious gear,

and wouldn't try to sell on faulty goods. 

 

Whenever i sell anything that i've owned, whether it be already preowned or purchased new by me,

I always say to any perspective buyer "if for whatever reason you don't like it, or you think you no longer want it,

then send it me back, and i'll refund you the money". 

I've never had to do it yet......

 

 

[newbie alert]

9 hours ago, tomato said:

 

I purchased a high end refractor via SGL classifieds (which was fine) but was reassured by the fact that the scope was still under the original manufacturer’s warranty. 

It only covers the initial buyer, not the second one

 

[CraigT82]

 I must admit I have read a few comments on this forum where someone states something like the following:

"....scope wasnt s good performer / wasnt great optically... so I moved it on..."

I think there are plenty people on here who have sold on scopes they knew weren't great or were poor examples. Granted not exactly faulty but still poor form I'm my book. 

[Bagginsies]

I have found that most equipment I have bought has been good, but I did buy a mount from eBay and the keys on the hand controller were very temperamental to a point they sometimes did not work. I did get money off so had an option to buy a new controller, but I decided to have a look inside and found a small piece of aluminium foil as an attempt to fix it. I ended up fixing it myself with some remote restore and it now works like new. A little annoyed as the seller must have known it was faulty, but I am happy as I have now saved a good bit of money (maybe why they accepted my low offer) 

Feel your pain when you buy something and then you think you have to go through the hassle to get it corrected, but I would like to think that most of the time it is a mistake by the seller and very rarely a deliberate attempt to cover up a fault.

Hope you get it sorted!

 

[MarkAR]

5 hours ago, newbie alert said:

It only covers the initial buyer, not the second one

 

A lot depends on the manufacturers warranty. I bought a used tig welder off Ebay a few years ago but after a couple of months the main board blew.  Made a call to a registered service centre and found out that the welder was still in warranty  by a month so had it fixed for free.

Edited March 12, 2020 by MarkAR

[Starflyer]

21 hours ago, tomato said:

I purchased a high end refractor via SGL classifieds (which was fine) but was reassured by the fact that the scope was still under the original manufacturer’s warranty. 

I'm glad it worked out for you.  Not many people realise that the vast majority of manufacturers warranties are not transferable.

When buying privately, even if the seller says an item is still within warranty, take this with a pinch of salt, it's almost certain that the manufacturer won't entertain any warranty claim from anyone except the original customer.

[Piero]

Never had issues in the second hand market here on SGL or ABS. In contrast three times I had issues with new equipment...1) TV plossl 20mm, 2) my first TV60, 3) my current 12" dob.

The first item was kept as I wasn't aware of the issue that time. The second one was returned to the seller after I included a lawyer in the email communication. The third one was fixed by me after about 6 months of analysis, study, work, and testing. Now, THANKFULLY, it works and works very well, but it gave me quite some bad time!

[newbie alert]

7 hours ago, MarkAR said:

A lot depends on the manufacturers warranty. I bought a used tig welder off Ebay a few years ago but after a couple of months the main board blew.  Made a call to a registered service centre and found out that the welder was still in warranty  by a month so had it fixed for free.

My comment was based on a scope that had issues with the optics, it was sold on and the complaint was made but Flo couldn't do anything about it as the new owner wasn't the initial purchaser so couldn't be sorted out ..

I know of a woman that bought a AVX second-hand, there was an issue with it but it was still within it's 2 year warrenty,  celestron didn't back the warrenty as needed the receipt as proof and the original owner wouldn't send it back

2 examples based on astro

[ollypenrice]

My experiences have been positive and I'm very sorry that yours haven't. My more notable second hand purchases include two Mesu 200 mounts, a TEC140 and Takahashi FSQ106, two Meade 10 inch SCTs and a TV Ethos (from SGL's Moonshane so no worries about that one!)

Given the number of troublesome refractors being reported when bought new, including some from Takahashi, I would want to inspect them first. It is easy to take a 'ballbearing test' kit along with you. I once did this test at a motorway service station half way between my house and the vendor's. The instrument gave an exemplary star test so I bought it. (You take a ballbearing glued to a black card to a considerable distance from the scope, illuminate it with a suitable beam placed nearby, and 'star' test on the BB in the usual way just both sides of focus.

I would certainly want to return faulty goods.

In my loft I have a number of items which I think to be of such poor quality that I wouldn't sell them at any price and when I'm selling something I don't much rate myself I do so at a very low price indeed with my opinion clearly declared and refund possible.

Olly

[garryblueboy]

57 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

My comment was based on a scope that had issues with the optics, it was sold on and the complaint was made but Flo couldn't do anything about it as the new owner wasn't the initial purchaser so couldn't be sorted out ..

I know of a woman that bought a AVX second-hand, there was an issue with it but it was still within it's 2 year warrenty,  celestron didn't back the warrenty as needed the receipt as proof and the original owner wouldn't send it back

2 examples based on astro

I think most people are honest but let’s be honest with ourselves if the seller is stating it’s still within warranty isn’t it as much our responsibility to check weather the manufacturer or dealer will honour it is he she prepared to help if any problems and is there an original receipt no company is going to honour a warranty with out proof of purchase as these items are not recorded by serial number when sold  so its obvious no receipt no warranty it’s an easy ask when buying and usually the dealer will not honour it as it has to be the original purchaser but manufacturer will usually honour with receipt   so taken these things in to account we must then decide if we wish to purchase or negotiate or walk away according to the above details it’s naive to believe you will have the same protection as the original purchaser without the checking the above 

[joe aguiar]

I have bought and sold hundreds of stuff on the used market

Once was there a minor issue being described as mint where maybe was excellent  or very good. But this is understandable cause a person may look at it slightly differently. 

Another time the post must of drop the box hard cause they said the focuser didnt rack back and forth. Which it did when I shipped it. But I know those cheap dual speed focuser from synta or gso are not well made.

In fact just like 6 months ago I bought the skywatcher evostar 100mm f9 which was brand new from a store and focuser broke after 1 use. The door hit it when going through and I could not get it it to work after that no matter what I did.

Anyway besides those 2 times and 1 was only a description in the wording so really 1 times in hundreds of times is really low chance I think

joejaguar 

Edited March 12, 2020 by joe aguiar

[Carbon Brush]

I am very sorry to hear of your bad experiences. Please don't let them put you completely off used kit, or even the hobby.

Most of my kit has been bought used. The only way to 'fill your toy box' and still eat.

I regard SGL as my first choice for used kit. It is easy to look up the sellers history.
If they have a long history of posting constructively over a long time, they are generally trustworthy.
I have never had a serious problem with anything from SGL.
I do think that the requirements for posts and time before using the sale section, should be re-instated.
Packing for shipping not as good as it could be on occasion.
But not everyone ships as much breakables as I do for work so maybe I go over the top.
The definition of 'scruffy' and 'paint damage' is of course subjective.
Photo of lenses and mirrors can make dust specs look like boulders. Or make scratched glass look good.

At the end of the day as a buyer I have been happy with SGL purchases.
As a seller I have even trusted a few to send the money if they are happy after receiving the item.

To me, a second choice is UKABS.
My biggest issue is the number of 'private sellers' who have placed dozens of adverts in the past 12 months.
I tend to avoid these. If they aren't honest about being 2nd hand kit resellers, can they be trusted about descriptions?
But the majority of people there are honest and there is a significant overlap with SGL.

As for anything used on 'the bay'. Generally regarded with great suspicion and a last resort.

David.

 

[Raph-in-the-sky]

I bought most of my kit second hand from SGL ,UKABS and 2ememains.be (belgian generic second hand site). 

The only issue I had was for a ES 82° 11mm. In that instance the seller did not answer for 4 days after receiving my money. It turned out that the seller had a major family emergency, he got back it touch with me afterwards and I received the item a few days later than anticipated.... all very understandable.

Contrary to what @Carbon Brush says I find usually that the packaging is over the top. 

[Adam J]

On 11/03/2020 at 11:33, garryblueboy said:

I too am like Steve I love buying & selling Astro equipment it is  so I can try out what suits me and my circumstances  and most on the used market or through the wanted adds  and like most the Astro gear was as described or better , it is always a gamble buying used equipment as is a used car 🚙 even after test drive and money is exchanged it can have faults 

I have enjoyed all bar one meeting so I guess over the last 25 years that’s not so bad and I have traveled as far as Italy to collect.  If there is a major problem with the triplet alignment I’m sure somebody such as ES Reid would be able to sort and then ask the seller to pay or chip in or refund the scope price 

No one seems to know how to get in touch with him or if he is doing private work (ie not for FLO). 

[FLO]

6 hours ago, Starflyer said:

When buying privately, even if the seller says an item is still within warranty, take this with a pinch of salt, it's almost certain that the manufacturer won't entertain any warranty claim from anyone except the original customer.

This is often true. In the astro world warranties are rarely transferable. 

Where someone has purchased a scope secondhand from one of our customers, and it is still within warranty, then in most instances we recommend they return it to their seller (our customer) then ask him/her to contact us for service. 

45 minutes ago, Adam J said:

No one seems to know how to get in touch with him or if he is doing private work (ie not for FLO). 

Es Reid is a very busy man. The work he does for for FLO on astronomy optics is only one of a number of projects he is involved in. I.e. he also does work for at least one university on microscopy optics. Because he is so busy he has respectfully asked us not to share his contact details. 

Steve Collingwood of SC Telescopes is another wizard when it comes to telescope optics. He has done good work for us on a number of occasions. He is easier to contact but he too is a busy man (he is also a Director for Pulsar Observatories) so might not have time for more work. 

Consider also, when someone contacts Es or Steve while in dispute with a seller, they are essentially asking them to enter a battle. That isn't fun. 

HTH, 

Steve 

[Adam J]

1 hour ago, FLO said:

Consider also, when someone contacts Es or Steve while in dispute with a seller, they are essentially asking them to enter a battle. That isn't fun. 

Oh its beyond its warranty and there is no dispute with the "second hand" seller as my friend is not in contract with him on the matter, he is just going to suck it up and pay to get it sorted.

I was not really expecting Es to be avaliable Steve hence my comment to GarryBlueBoy. Broadly speaking though it is surprising how few people are available to do this kind of work in the UK. It actually makes me want to teach myself the trade as clearly there is a gap in the market and some money to be made once you have sufficient experience to work on telescopes that are not your own with confidence.

There is a book called Star testing and adjusting astronomical telescopes on amazon, I may make a purchase.  I guess the way forward would be to get an old cheap triplet in good working order and use it as a test subject by deliberately messing it up and then leaning to fix it. Guess that I would have to make some optical test equipment too. 

Adam

 

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Adam J

[garryblueboy]

28 minutes ago, Adam J said:

I was not really expecting Es to be avaliable Steve hence my comment to GarryBlueBoy.

I’m not sure he’s not available as I know several people who are having work done privately by him 

[tooth_dr]

4 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

I am very sorry to hear of your bad experiences. Please don't let them put you completely off used kit, or even the hobby.

Most of my kit has been bought used. The only way to 'fill your toy box' and still eat.

I regard SGL as my first choice for used kit. It is easy to look up the sellers history.
If they have a long history of posting constructively over a long time, they are generally trustworthy.
I have never had a serious problem with anything from SGL.
I do think that the requirements for posts and time before using the sale section, should be re-instated.
Packing for shipping not as good as it could be on occasion.
But not everyone ships as much breakables as I do for work so maybe I go over the top.
The definition of 'scruffy' and 'paint damage' is of course subjective.
Photo of lenses and mirrors can make dust specs look like boulders. Or make scratched glass look good.

At the end of the day as a buyer I have been happy with SGL purchases.
As a seller I have even trusted a few to send the money if they are happy after receiving the item.

To me, a second choice is UKABS.
My biggest issue is the number of 'private sellers' who have placed dozens of adverts in the past 12 months.
I tend to avoid these. If they aren't honest about being 2nd hand kit resellers, can they be trusted about descriptions?
But the majority of people there are honest and there is a significant overlap with SGL.

As for anything used on 'the bay'. Generally regarded with great suspicion and a last resort.

David.

 

Probably the most accurate description, certainly tallies with my experiences.

[garryblueboy]

1 hour ago, tooth_dr said:

My biggest issue is the number of 'private sellers' who have placed dozens of adverts in the past 12 months

If like me they buy and sell to try out what’s best and suits circumstances but am not a trader there are many on here that regular post like this 

[tooth_dr]

1 minute ago, garryblueboy said:

If like me they buy and sell to try out what’s best and suits circumstances but am not a trader there are many on here that regular post like this 

I didnt post that, don't know how you quoted me?  But yes I would be wary of someone who has lots of adverts too, if they claim to be a private seller.

[johninderby]

While a lot of ads from one seller does raise suspicions I consider if it’s just random or somone upgrading and getting rid of now uneeded items and raising money for the new gear.

Edited March 12, 2020 by johninderby

[spillage]

10 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

I didnt post that. I think you can add to the quote though so maybe it got copied and pasted here?

Odd as @Carbon Brush did.