Red light rules and motor home

[cjdawson]

Hey all.

I'm hiring a motor home for SGL11, and want to make sure that I can make it "white light friendly".  This is something that I'll have to do once on site, as I will be picking it up on the morning of travel.

To make everything red, I'm guessing that the best thing to use is 106 Primary Red lighting Gel, like they use for state lighting.

Here's a link to one possible source.

https://www.stagedepot.co.uk/lighting/lighting-gel/colour-effect/106-primary-red-lighting-gel-1

My question is, to properly deck out a motor home - and an iPad, how much of this stuff am I likely to need?

[John]

The best thing is to try and make sure that no lights show outside the vehicle at all if possible.

Things like the courtesy lights can be turned off or have some opaque tape put over them.

Even red lights, if there are too many of them, can affect dark adaptation.

At the last star party I went to there were quite a few red lights that were well intended but just too bright about.

Sorry if that sounds picky but if the skies are dark there the visual observers hunting the deep sky objects will want to stay as dark adapted as possible.

[cjdawson]

I know where you are comming from. For the uninitiated, it does sound picky. But you are of course right, that there is a level of brightness beyond which the presence of the light is going to break the dark adaption.

Having said the my question was about the amount of Gel sheet I'd need to be able to ensure that the lights are all red. The point being to minimise the effect of the light that will be produced, and you can rest assured that there will be light produced at some point of the week.

My question is, how much Gel sheet would I need be able to make all the white light red?

[DRT]

I suppose that entirely depends on how many and which types of lights the motor home has.

I used this stuff at SGLX and only used one sheet as all of the lights in the motor home I hired were the new LED type which have a very small surface area. If you have the old style strip or square light shades you would need more.

As John says, turning as many of the lights off as you can is the best solution and then use the gel sheets to cover the few that you need to get around inside the van.

A roll of thick duct tape is also useful to cover courtesy lights completely.

[Davey-T]

Depending on what sort of lights it has, I've put a sheet of red film inside the light covers and recently bought some red acrylic covers that slide over the white flourescent tubes.

As John says some red lights are pretty blinding especially when there are strings of red leds like a fairground, personally I try to be as far as poss' from the observers, now that Kingfisher is hard standing you're only a stones throw from the dob mob and they might throw one if you blind them 

Dave

[cjdawson]

I wasn't planning on having a conversation about turning lights off, which seems to be what's on everyones mind. I was hoping that someone would be able to give me a rough guide as I was hoping not to spend £90 on a 25 meter roll of the stuff.

My plan, which I did not share has several stages.

1. make all the internal lights red.

2. cover over any outside lighting, so that there's no problem there.

3. only turn on the lights when I need too.

I'm sure that the motorhome will have curtains - which will be closed in the evening anyway.

The whole point of this is to make sure that there's no white light - I'll have a separate torch for that, which will only be used if it's cloudy and not likely to clear.

The motorhome that I've hired is http://northernleisure.co.uk/elsie-4-berth-profila/

I've not seen the inside of this motorhome and I'm not likely to see it until the day I set off for the star party.

[DRT]

I wasn't planning on having a conversation about turning lights off, which seems to be what's on everyones mind. I was hoping that someone would be able to give me a rough guide as I was hoping not to spend £90 on a 25 meter roll of the stuff.

I bought six sheets about three years ago. I have covered the lights in my shed and been to two star parties (one with a motor home) and have used three sheets.

[Davey-T]

You can get red acetate document folders from stationary suppliers, probably the cheapest source.

Dave

[carastro]

There should be no need to put the vehicle lights on after dark.   Inside lights even if you draw the curtains light will leak through the crack.  

I have a transit van which is partly converted into a campervan and I don't use the inside van lights at all if it's clear enough for Astronomy, I take a separate table lamp that is covered in red plastic, or a clip on camping light with a red bulb in it.  

Of course when it's cloudy you can use the normal van lights.

HTH

Carole 

[Psychobilly]

Of course when it's cloudy you can use the normal van lights.

HTH

Carole 

Remember the visual guys may be grabbing at any opportunity they get - So even if it's too cloudy for the "imagers" then the  visual observers  and in particular the dob mob might still be observing especially if previous nights have been totally clouded out...

Perhaps we need an agreed definition of "cloudy" and an official  "red" "white" light decision to at least try keep things "sweet"... Obviously only "red" at all times is the safest option... Just my 2p's worth..

Peter...

[daz]

I think unless it is totally cloudy, then red light after dark is the safest policy for SGLXI.

I will update the info pages accordingly

[cjdawson]

Remember the visual guys may be grabbing at any opportunity they get - So even if it's too cloudy for the "imagers" then the  visual observers  and in particular the dob mob might still be observing especially if previous nights have been totally clouded out...

Perhaps we need an agreed definition of "cloudy" and an official  "red" "white" light  to keep things "sweet"... Obviously only "red" at all times is the safest option... Just my 2p's worth..

Peter...

Whilst I place myself in the imager croud, there's nothing to stop me from switching to visual mode if there is cloud with gaps - especially if I'd already setup and aligned on a previous session.

The primary reason that I'm looking to set all the motorhome lights red, is that way no one will be complaining if I switch them on, and there's light peaking out of the curtains.  I'm thinking about having a specific white light for if there is a night that's completely clouded out.

Although, I'm also now thinking about switching tack and leaving the van lights alone, and taking specific red lights for inside.   My main concern about this is if I decide at 3am and am heading to bed, and other people are still out and going for an all nighter.  I don't want to kill their dark adaptation.

There's still a few months to think about this so I'm not rushing.

[Psychobilly]

I guess it's more of a problem for those with hired motorhome's where you don't want to be "modifying" the factory fitted lights removing fuses etc or risking "damage" to paint work etc

Low tack tape and black bin liners work well for exterior lights...

Peter...

[cjdawson]

I guess it's more of a problem for those with hired motorhome's where you don't want to be "modifying" the factory fitted lights removing fuses etc or risking "damage" to paint work etc

Low tack tape and black bin liners work well for exterior lights...

Peter...

Yep, that's my primary concern, "damage" would make this my first and last star party for the next... erm, 20 years with the amount of the excess.

I'm planning on bringing some electrical tape with me, and bin bags is a no brainer.  So will be able to put one or two to use covering the external lights with that.  (I wasn't intending having external lights anyway, they're simply a problem at a star party, whatever colour)

[carastro]

Remember the visual guys may be grabbing at any opportunity they get - So even if it's too cloudy for the "imagers" then the  visual observers  and in particular the dob mob might still be observing especially if previous nights have been totally clouded out...

I did mean if no astronomy was going on that you don't have to worry about red lights.  To be honest I only have red lights anyway.

Carole 

[Helen]

To answer the original question....  I bought a roll of Lee Stage gel filter - it is 1.2m long!, so I don't imagine ever running out!!  and it was less than  £5.  (and I'll have it with me at SGL11 if anyone needs some )

Helen

[michaelmorris]

On Tim's suggestion, I bought a roll of red floor lane marking tape.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25mm-x-33m-FLOOR-MARKING-TAPE-RED-Adhesive-PVC-Lane-Warehouse-Hazard-Warning-/121776556145?hash=item1c5a72c871

I just put over the light above the sink in the motorhome and have that as the only light on in the Motorhome.  It works a treat.  It's pretty low residue stuff, so it should be pretty easy to get it off again.  I find a little dab of meths on any glue/tape residue usually does the trick very effectively. just remember to wash the meths off with some warm soapy water as soon as you've finished any cleaning.

I hope this helps.

[L8-Nite]

Consider checking your local Home Bargin or Pound Shop's for red "led" light strings, and temporarily stick them them inside your caravan's or motor home's with white or blue tack, tape, or velcro.

It's a cheap and simple solution.

The string of 20 red lights cost 1£ and use just two AA batteries. The larger one hundred light set which I got from Pound Stretcher works off of solar power. ( I have a set strung along the ceiling of our van with velcro. ) 

Edit: Also, you can cut lights off from the end of the strings if you feel there are too many for your purpose, and they will still work. 

[cjdawson]

That's a brilliant idea.  So rather than lots of Red Gel, I could instead get something like this...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ER-CHEN-Waterproof-Operated-Function/dp/B012CLB0RQ/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1444855497&sr=8-6&keywords=red+light+string

or 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/FOME-Christmas-Function-Controller-Lighting/dp/B00W10JBV6/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1444855497&sr=8-9&keywords=red+light+string

And have plenty of light inside the motor home, without having to turn on any of the homes white lights, this means that if there's a white out night, I could have normal light.

And I could get a sheet of the red lighting gel to use as a filter for my iPad.

Going to start keeping an eye on Aldi and Home Bargins to see if they start doing red led strips.

[John]

Why dress our vans up like Xmas trees ?

My van has 4 interior lights. I use just the one at the far end shielded so that there is enough light to move around safely in the van but no more. A blind + curtains stops any light spilling out of the end of the van and thats it.

I can understand if families are in vans while we are astronomising that they need some light. But otherwise we can do without for a few hours surely ?

[DRT]

Why dress our vans up like Xmas trees ?

My van has 4 interior lights. I use just the one at the far end shielded so that there is enough light to move around safely in the van but no more. A blind + curtains stops any light spilling out of the end of the van and thats it.

I can understand if families are in vans while we are astronomising that they need some light. But otherwise we can do without for a few hours surely ?

I have great empathy with your Bah Humbug approach to this, John. I extend the same enthusiasm to Christmas, much to the frustration of my family

But seriously, you are absolutely correct. Better to focus on not using lights than worrying how to partly conceal them. Man survived millions of nights without lights at all - I'm sure we can manage with a small red torch for three or four nights

[cjdawson]

Well that's the thing, I'm probably over thinking it. A few hours is one thing, but all night it something else altogether.  My last imaging session I was out for about 5 hours setting up and taking the frames.  If it's a wall to wall clear night.  There's a high chance that I'll be running longer exposures and it will easily turn into an all nighter just to acquire images.  Not sure how long the observers will last doing that, but it wouldn't surprise me to see some of them still up at 3am - and needing the red light rule to remain in place.   So, if I decide to head to bed at 2 am or something, I'll need to be able to see to get ready for bed, so will want enough light to do that. As I said, probably over thinking it, but I really don't want to have white light spilling out and wrecking anyone's dark adaptation at 3am.

[cjdawson]

I have great empathy with your Bah Humbug approach to this, John. I extend the same enthusiasm to Christmas, much to the frustration of my family

But seriously, you are absolutely correct. Better to focus on not using lights than worrying how to partly conceal them. Man survived millions of nights without lights at all - I'm sure we can manage with a small red torch for three or four nights

I've had my small red torch ever since I got into astonomy.

[Helen]

Overthinking on red light is much better than underthinking

Helen

[Moonshane]

not sure about your getting ready for bed ritual but after a decent night, I just chuck the scope in the shelter and go to bed. don't need any light for that if you remain dark adapted. bright red light is pretty much as bad a bright white light.  bright is bright.