All you need is 6 inches

[Richard Hather]

My work colleagues asked me the same thing about my old telescope which was a C6.

I said it's got 6 inch aperture it's only later I found out that most people I told thought I meant the length of the scope ?

It was only after I showed them pictures of the scope it dawned on them.

I now own a 12" dob and from what I've observed over my last 2-3 sessions with it have been brighter and more detailed then my C6 ever showed me in my backyard ?

[Grotemobile]

1 hour ago, Moonshane said:

The main thing is that you maximise whatever scope you have. My most used scope currently is my 120ED. It's superb at white light solar and also a great all rounder from my pretty light polluted garden. When I am at a dark site though I definitely make the most of it with bigger aperture (16") but I do always take the 120ED or my 102mm ED for the wider fields etc. I am firmly of the opinion that aperture matters but only to a point and dark skies are more important. If you have both or can access both on a regular basis then you are certainly lucky. Appreciating the bigger aperture when it's used is why despite using my 16" only a few times a year these days, I could never sell it unless I was in a real financial mess.

I am in the same boat as you. Sold the C11 & got a CPC 800 HD. So easy to set up & use. Love a 14" Dob , but it is just not practical 

were I live. Dragging something like that out to a dark site is not really on. Cannot see any DSOs were I live. Just street lights.

[Pig]

42 minutes ago, estwing said:

And lets hope you get a few more...great observing with you buddy 

Me too Calvin.....I have 2 weeks off soon, from work and the wife ? so I will be planning some nights away in the tent shortly.

[Littleguy80]

1 hour ago, Mr niall said:

What did the pic look like btw?

Just a basic pic taken with my iPhone. No processing. One day I'd like to take something impressive enough to win a stuPod

[Mr niall]

4 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

Just a basic pic taken with my iPhone. No processing. One day I'd like to take something impressive enough to win a stuPod

Bit off topic but I got a new iPhone yesterday, took some pics down at the allotment last night, looked at them today and they sort of move around? Apparently it's called "live"? I remember back in the day they used to have a version of live - it was called "a video". Crazy times. That's a pretty good capture - when I try with my phone I spend twenty minutes hovering around the eyepiece trying to get it to appear on the screen and then cursing cos whatever I'm looking at has moved out of the fov!

[Littleguy80]

9 minutes ago, Mr niall said:

Bit off topic but I got a new iPhone yesterday, took some pics down at the allotment last night, looked at them today and they sort of move around? Apparently it's called "live"? I remember back in the day they used to have a version of live - it was called "a video". Crazy times. That's a pretty good capture - when I try with my phone I spend twenty minutes hovering around the eyepiece trying to get it to appear on the screen and then cursing cos whatever I'm looking at has moved out of the fov!

Haha my wife loves it. She thinks they're like photos in Harry Potter! The new version of iOS, out in September, will allow you to pick which still from the "live photo" you want to use. I got an adapter that holds the phone over the eyepiece and a Bluetooth shutter for £15 off Amazon. Makes taking pics much easier. 

Take a look at this:

https://canadianastronomy.wordpress.com/tag/iphone-astrophotography/

[Stu]

13 hours ago, Alien 13 said:

I still stick with Sir PM when he used to say a 6 inch reflector a 3 inch frac or 7 x 50 binos, I cannot understand why you need more.

Alan

Perhaps if you haven't looked through anything bigger then you won't understand, but you are actually missing out on a vast amount.

I do most of my observing with a 4" frac, albeit a very nice one. Much of my time is spent on planets, doubles, the moon and a lot of time, the sun in white light and Ha.

I had, for a relatively short period, a 16" Sumerian dobsonian. My best observing with it was 4 clear nights at the SGL10 star party. I saw more galaxies in four nights than my entire observing career to date which was somewhere around 15 years.

The key thing to remember is that THE most important thing for observing galaxies and nebulae is dark skies. If the surface brightness of a galaxy is less than the sky background then you won't see it in any scope.

I use a 4" scope mainly because of practicality. If I still had my Sumerian I suspect it would not have been used at all. I can easily get the 4" in the car to take it away camping, or even abroad. So a 4" scope under dark skies can also show you a lot. Trawling around Sagittarius and Scorpius is wonderful from a nice warm Mediterranean location.

The best bet however is a large scope under a dark sky. The aperture gives the ability to magnify small galaxy targets whilst maintaining their surface  brightness, and at these larger image scales you see them far more clearly and with more structure.

That is why the dob mob observe from the darkest places they can find, with the biggest scopes they can get their hands on (or build!) I totally get that, but for my circumstances it is just not a feasible way to observe, so I find other ways of enjoying the hobby. I love getting the most out of whatever instrument I have to have, whether it is a pair of 10x25 binoculars, a 65mm Newt or a small frac.

Where am I going with this? If limited to a 6" scope, then yes you would miss out on a lot of detail and structure in faint galaxies. However, if you regularly took your 6" scope to the darkest sites you could find, you would maintain a lifetime of enjoyment I'm sure.

[RichLD]

I tend to use binos for visual whilst the imaging rig is running. However, when I visited @ollypenrice's place I experienced the views through his 20" Dob that were simply breathtaking! I don't think I'll ever top that, thanks Olly! 

[Mr niall]

3 hours ago, Littleguy80 said:

Haha my wife loves it. She thinks they're like photos in Harry Potter! 

Love it, that's exactly what it's like!

[JG777]

It’s interesting that this thread like a lot of others places the values of a dark sky over the values of a particular scope and for most of us we have to eke out the maximum amount of astronomy in varied light polluted skies. Factor in busy jobs, family, time and other hobbies and just waiting for that clear night it can be a real issue trying to choose the right kit if you’re going to limit things to one scope. I found out quite a time ago that one scope would never be enough and the best way of maximising the chances of any observing would be to have different scopes for different situations. 

 

I do have a 6 inch scope, a very nice VX6 with 1/10 mirror which gets used a fair bit as it is very easy to transport to nearby dark sites and it cools down pretty quickly especially with the fan running. So with this simple push to set up it is often 2 hours of grab n go astronomy which I might not get with my 9.25 Evo knowing it would be a hour before cool down and the extra heft to get it to the site. Not saying the Evo is difficult, it really isn’t but when time is restricted the reflector is the right choice and yes I know it will not deliver as much detail as the fantastic big cat but this never worries me when I am out doing real astronomy. There is also a place for the Equinox 80, I have a limited view from home because of trees and houses, plus lights, but the Eastern aspect is available so sometimes I take my young daughter out for a quick blast of any planets, moon and other brighter objects available. This is short term quality astronomy and a lot of fun! Up and running in 5 minutes. It is also the scope that goes in the car for any UK travels and gets used with a Lunt wedge, so once again it has its place regardless of the sky condition.

 

All in all I know with all things being equal the cat will win out on most things as aperture always will but things are rarely ever equal which means the cat often becomes the Ferrari stuck in city traffic. 

 

So maybe the moral of this is not about a 6 inch scope being all you ever need but having a variety of different scopes to help adapt to different situations. I think this translates to “Buy more scopes!!”

 

FLO are waiting for your orders!!

[Moonshane]

I agree completely with the last post. I also have quite a few scopes and sometimes it's quite nice to challenge myself and see what I can extract from my 102mm F7 ED. Using a different scope also provides a slightly different experience and therefore tends to keep things fresh.

[estwing]

5 hours ago, Pig said:

Me too Calvin.....I have 2 weeks off soon, from work and the wife ? so I will be planning some nights away in the tent shortly.

Elan 18/19 August mate

[DirkSteele]

I would certainly echo the comments on dark skies. One night in the desert in Oman, on a night of unrivalled transparency, and hundreds of miles from any artificial lights, allowed my APM 105mm triplet to perform as well as my C11 does in from a suburban UK location. It was truly staggering what I was able to see. Really brought home the importance of real darkness.  However, it did leave me wondering just how spectacular a 20" Dob would have been. Sadly the latter is slightly harder to transport in the cabin of a British Airways flight!

[Tim]

FWIW my 18" dob is practically useless at home, the sky is just too bright. A 6" f7 'frac is my scope of choice for home. 

I've had 3 unforgettable, gob smacking, totally blown away views that rate as my best results. The Veil nebula through an 18" Obsession, M42 through a 24", and last year the Pacman nebula through the 24" and 17mm Ethos Ep with Oiii. I've spent many hours photographing those objects, and am familiar with lots of the finer details within them. To see these details visually, as clear and bright as a picture is just outstanding, breathtaking.

[swamp thing]

17 hours ago, Alien 13 said:

I still stick with Sir PM when he used to say a 6 inch reflector a 3 inch frac or 7 x 50 binos, I cannot understand why you need more.

Alan

To put that in perspective specially for you Alan. I cannot understand why you need more than a camera phone................  

Err because you can have more.  

[ollypenrice]

I don't subscribe to the mantra that aperture always wins. If all things were equal it would often, but not always, win - but they're not. And then more aperture means, in the real world, more focal length and a smaller field of view. You don't always want this. (Or rather, I don't always want this.) I do love a big aperture but I also love a wide field of view (as an imager, also, hence my collection of large mosaics.) I'm inclined to rejoice in the fact that there are all kinds of interesting optics for viewing the depths of space and that we should enjoy them all.

Olly

[Alien 13]

1 minute ago, swamp thing said:

To put that in perspective specially for you Alan. I cannot understand why you need more than a camera phone................  

Err because you can have more.  

There are things you can see at sub 400 mm focal length that are impossible with longer ones (and vice versa), I like wide field ultra low magnification views and very big exit pupils and I have a real need for correct image orientation, just cant live with upside down.

Alan

[Stu]

2 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

I like wide field ultra low magnification views

I do share that with you too, trawling the Milky Way with a lovely widefield is a fabulous experience  

[ollypenrice]

Seeing the entire Veil Nebula is an almighty buzz...

Olly

[Stu]

19 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Seeing the entire Veil Nebula is an almighty buzz...

Olly

Yep, certainly is  

[swamp thing]

1 hour ago, Alien 13 said:

There are things you can see at sub 400 mm focal length that are impossible with longer ones (and vice versa), I like wide field ultra low magnification views and very big exit pupils and I have a real need for correct image orientation, just cant live with upside down.

Alan

And that's why you need more than a camera phone???..............

I actually find that if I ignore wide field observing it usually goes away all of it's own accord. If not, I find a liberal application of large aperture cures it immediately.  

Have fun out there  

[Pig]

3 hours ago, estwing said:

Elan 18/19 August mate

THat sounds very tempting, even more so that am aloud to drink again. Do you have details Calvin?

I am down to a single scope again and I find it does everything I need, from solar all the way through to wonderful wide field views of the heavens, easy to set up with very accurate goto capability...... so once again it is down to horses for courses for me ?

[estwing]

PM ya later mate

[nightfisher]

6 hours ago, Stu said:

Perhaps if you haven't looked through anything bigger then you won't understand, but you are actually missing out on a vast amount.

I do most of my observing with a 4" frac, albeit a very nice one. Much of my time is spent on planets, doubles, the moon and a lot of time, the sun in white light and Ha.

I had, for a relatively short period, a 16" Sumerian dobsonian. My best observing with it was 4 clear nights at the SGL10 star party. I saw more galaxies in four nights than my entire observing career to date which was somewhere around 15 years.

The key thing to remember is that THE most important thing for observing galaxies and nebulae is dark skies. If the surface brightness of a galaxy is less than the sky background then you won't see it in any scope.

I use a 4" scope mainly because of practicality. If I still had my Sumerian I suspect it would not have been used at all. I can easily get the 4" in the car to take it away camping, or even abroad. So a 4" scope under dark skies can also show you a lot. Trawling around Sagittarius and Scorpius is wonderful from a nice warm Mediterranean location.

The best bet however is a large scope under a dark sky. The aperture gives the ability to magnify small galaxy targets whilst maintaining their surface  brightness, and at these larger image scales you see them far more clearly and with more structure.

That is why the dob mob observe from the darkest places they can find, with the biggest scopes they can get their hands on (or build!) I totally get that, but for my circumstances it is just not a feasible way to observe, so I find other ways of enjoying the hobby. I love getting the most out of whatever instrument I have to have, whether it is a pair of 10x25 binoculars, a 65mm Newt or a small frac.

Where am I going with this? If limited to a 6" scope, then yes you would miss out on a lot of detail and structure in faint galaxies. However, if you regularly took your 6" scope to the darkest sites you could find, you would maintain a lifetime of enjoyment I'm sure.

Well said Stu,

I have had the pleasure of looking through a couple of big scopes 16" SCT at a few locations a 16" dob and 22" dob at dark sites, nothing at home under light polluted skies can come near, so for me there is no point trying, so i am happy to stick with 5" at home for decent Luna and planets, throw in a few globs and double stars and a small amount of bright Messiers and im good with that, all a case of bowing down to limiting factors

[scarp15]

25 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

Well said Stu,

I have had the pleasure of looking through a couple of big scopes 16" SCT at a few locations a 16" dob and 22" dob at dark sites, nothing at home under light polluted skies can come near, so for me there is no point trying, so i am happy to stick with 5" at home for decent Luna and planets, throw in a few globs and double stars and a small amount of bright Messiers and im good with that, all a case of bowing down to limiting factors

I think that is it really, if you have access on a few humble occasions to satisfy a curiosity need to look through a large aperture scope away from light pollution, at a selection of new or familiar objects, then conversely, for some, you can go back to your own set up and observational circumstances quite content. I therefore enjoy using smaller scopes (and binoculars) for their own particular characteristics, views and advantages (though I would be curious to look through a much larger dob sometime). So if mixing with friends, star parties and such can be great for sampling alternatives to your own (and not just large aperture) - without necessarily wishing ownership. Just to beat the drum, everyone from time to time should get to sample and experience a dark sky, far more going for it than the conflict of aperture.