The gift of a hobby killer.

[FrankRyanJr]

Starting around this time, I've been asked every year for the last 30+ years from at least one person what is the best scope to buy someone for Christmas/Holidays.  Usually the budget is around $250 so I have a stock answer! 🙂
No.1 rule: Do not buy them a hobby killer!

I'm interested in hearing what others think of my take on it. 
In short (the long is below) if they are new to astronomy I simply recommend binos and a book. I know, it sounds hella boring but I've seen so many times kids and adults getting gifted scopes that literally destroy any interest they had. 

Quote

 

Selecting the best astronomy gear for a novice under a budget of 200-ish can be a rewarding and thoughtful Christmas gift. However, making the right choice is crucial to ensure the recipient's budding interest in stargazing doesn't fizzle out.
Here's a guide to the what I think is the ideal piece of equipment for various age groups and interests:

Under 14 Years Old: - For young stargazers, it's important to keep it simple and user-friendly. - Avoid German Equatorial Mounts and traditional long-tube telescopes as they can be cumbersome and challenging for kids. - A better option is actually a compact and robust 'Spotting Scope' with a handle for easy pointing. - Top of the list must be a good pair of 10x50 binoculars with a tripod is an excellent choice. Pair these with a good beginner's guide to observing the night sky with binoculars and this is what I highly recommend.

Above 14 Years Old: - As the novice astronomer gets older and more serious about the hobby, consider an 8-inch Dobsonian telescope. - Dobsonian telescopes offer the best value for money in terms of light-gathering power. - Remember, in astronomy, it's not all about magnification; the size of the mirror matters for detailed observations. - Anything smaller than 8 inches may limit the ability to see faint celestial objects, especially in areas with significant light pollution.

Limitations of the 200-ish Budget: It's essential to manage expectations when working with a tight budget. A quality 'go-to' or motorized telescope is out of reach in this price range. Telescopes in this category with motorized features typically compromise on optics or mount stability. Instead, prioritize the quality of the optics and the overall build of the telescope, even if it means forgoing automated tracking.

Additional Considerations: Contact you're local astronomy club for recommendations on gear / shops. Stress the importance of patience and practice, as astronomy can be a challenging but incredibly rewarding hobby. Consider gift options like astronomy-related books, stargazing apps, or a red flashlight for preserving night vision during observations. Keeping warm while outside is also super important so consider, a hat, gloves, scarf as the other 'observing accessories' as I can tell you from experience, these are needed!

In conclusion, the best astronomy gear for a novice under $200 ish depends on their age and level of interest. For young beginners, a pair of binoculars will spark their curiosity, while an 8-inch Dobsonian telescope provides excellent light-gathering power for older enthusiasts. By keeping the equipment simple to use and basic, the right balance can be struck between gear and learning. The key is to foster a love for the cosmos and encourage learning and exploration in the night sky rather than battling with gear and giving up.

Have extra cash to splash? I think the perfect scope for the ‘serious about visual astronomy’ young adult/adult is a 10’’ Dobsonian. It will still be in the realm of ‘easy to use’ / ‘move around’, have a very respectable light gathering ability and deep sky objects really begin to get exciting at 10’’ with the right combination of eyepieces. Starting off I’d recommend just getting a decent set of branded ‘Plossel’ eyepieces. As you gain more experience and want to get the best from your gear, your next big purchase will be one or two good EP’s (that may well cost the same as the scope!) but you will understand why when you use them. Before you spend any money, again I strongly recommend that you join a local astronomy club as you will get the best advice from them.
Clear skies!

 

(YT vid)
Don't gift 'Hobby Killer' telescopes for Christmas! Do this instead...

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by FrankRyanJr
Wrong video link

[NGC 1502]

Yes, in general the above is good advice👍

However, if a youngster has decided they want a telescope they will be disappointed if they don’t get one. Binoculars, even if actually a better gift, it won’t be seen that way. They really need an experienced adult to demonstrate how effective binoculars can be, how rewarding binoculars can be.

Definitely agree that for a beginner, an EQ mount is a hobby killer, especially one of the cheaper models on a wobbly and flimsy tripod.  However, a flimsy and wobbly alt-az is not much better, even though it’s far easier to understand.

An 8” Dob could well be a lifetime scope with a few upgraded eyepieces like the value-for-money BST Starguiders from our sponsors, FLO.

To significantly out perform an 8” Dob it takes a 12” to give an obviously better view. But a 12” is quite a beast to lug around and may not see much use. If it’s on castors in a shed adjacent to the observing spot, that works well.

Ed.

Edit- lockable castors!

Edited November 4, 2023 by NGC 1502
Extra info

[davidc135]

Unless the youngster has expressed an interest, any kind of telescope or binocular is probably a bad idea for a present. Even if they seem keen, it's likely that any enthusiam won't last longer than a few outings, at least for the majority.

With that in mind, keep it small and simple but effective. Say a decent 60mm alt az refractor.

Most will abandon the hobby regardless of what they have in front of them.

I have a cyclist friend who had a made to measure bike produced for his grand daughter. But she liked ponies and never used it.

David

Edited November 4, 2023 by davidc135

[Peter Drew]

Yes, don't buy someone a telescope thinking they might like one, just because you do.  Make sure that that it's a very enthusiastic request, only then there is a good chance that the recipient will persevere with the learning curve.     🙂

Edited November 4, 2023 by Peter Drew

[saac]

7 hours ago, FrankRyanJr said:

Starting around this time, I've been asked every year for the last 30+ years from at least one person what is the best scope to buy someone for Christmas/Holidays.  Usually the budget is around $250 so I have a stock answer! 🙂
No.1 rule: Do not buy them a hobby killer!

I'm interested in hearing what others think of my take on it. 
In short (the long is below) if they are new to astronomy I simply recommend binos and a book. I know, it sounds hella boring but I've seen so many times kids and adults getting gifted scopes that literally destroy any interest they had. 

(YT vid)
Don't gift 'Hobby Killer' telescopes for Christmas! Do this instead...
https://youtu.be/Gvrb65AfJuk?si=NAyxm17GTLZJ5rUj

I take the opposite view especially if the telescope is a gift for a child.  As an 8 year old I received my first telescope at Christmas, it was one of the Tasco refractors and came with a tripod and some accessories.  It really had little to praise in terms of quality or performance but it offered something far more important. It offered  "possibility" and it fired my imagination well beyond the limits of its limited optics.  I spent fruitless hours in the back garden searching the heavens for something extraordinary and I enjoyed every minute of; it enriched my passion for science and engineering. Fast forward some 50 years, a career in engineering now education and I am still searching the night sky, sometimes with a little more success.  A telescope for a child is a completely different proposition than a telescope an adult may consider, adults have a fraction of the imagination of children. For me at least,  a £250 telescope is not a hobby killer it's a door to possibilities that could stretch far beyond that Christmas morning.

 

Jim 

Edited November 4, 2023 by saac

[JeremyS]

The best gift that anyone can give to anyone that expresses an interest in the stars is the gift of time to help them explore the night sky

Edited November 4, 2023 by JeremyS

[Peter Drew]

I have to agree as I was just the same as were probably most of us on this forum.  But how many, as a percentage of those given "hobby killers" ended up like this?   Considering how many telescopes of this description are sold, if a high percentage, astronomy would be more than a niche interest.    🙂

[RobertI]

I think the bino advice is good for kids that are really interested in “doing” astronomy, but in my experience, many children just want a telescope, and in particular something that “looks like a real telescope” - ie: a refractor of some sort on a tripod. In that case I think a cheap scope and lots of encouragement from a knowledgeable person can work wonders. It’s the second bit that’s usually lacking though!

Edited November 4, 2023 by RobertI

[GrumpiusMaximus]

I had a great deal of luck recently and managed to snag a Heritage 100P mini-Dobsonian for 30 GBP a few months ago.  That, plus a reasonably-decent eyepiece and a book would still come in at far under 100 GBP.  I'd argue that would be an ideal present for a child that's expressed an interest.

Edited November 5, 2023 by GrumpiusMaximus

[JOC]

22 hours ago, saac said:

a £250 telescope is not a hobby killer it's a door to possibilities that could stretch far beyond that Christmas morning.

I'd hardly describe some <£250 scopes as 'hobby killers'.  I am sure that these get a really good write up on SGL normally and you'd still have cash for a BST starguider in a sale on top of the 'probably functional' EP's that no doubt come with the scope https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

[John]

A hobby killer could be a very large and potentially capable scope if purchased by someone with little or no experience if their observing circumstances are not right. I'm thinking of folks who "go big" on their 1st scope and order something like a 16 inch dob or 12 inch plus SCT on the basis that they "don't want to feel the need to upgrade". I've seen this happen quite a lot and, unfortunately, the usual result is that the scope is sold off sometime later after some frustration at the effort and time required to set it up and take it down to observe.

 

[DaveL59]

I'd agree John, when you look at the number of "lightweight grab and go" threads from many I'd almost bet those get the most use once you have one. I know I used the Starsense LT70 a lot more while it was here and prior to that the TAL-M, both very easy to just plonk outside and start using.

The Starsense is now with my daughter - the phone app makes it much easier for them to use tho I'll admit they haven't much what with lots of work to do on the house and garden they're pretty exhausted a lot of the time, plus the kids being young so late nights not so practical for them.

Being interested is one thing, having the time often a bigger issue. For me I've done very little of late what with staring at a screen all day, weekend and some overnight jobs like this morning leaving the old eyes not up to it. Hence I got a Seestar S50, lets me have a compact easy to set up toy that displays to phone/tablet so far less effort on my eyes. Not good for planets tho, but I've "proper" scopes for that when I've the energy 🙂 

 

[cajen2]

On 04/11/2023 at 09:21, davidc135 said:

Unless the youngster has expressed an interest, any kind of telescope or binocular is probably a bad idea for a present. Even if they seem keen, it's likely that any enthusiam won't last longer than a few outings, at least for the majority.

With that in mind, keep it small and simple but effective. Say a decent 60mm alt az refractor.

Most will abandon the hobby regardless of what they have in front of them.

I have a cyclist friend who had a made to measure bike produced for his grand daughter. But she liked ponies and never used it.

David

I'm with David on this one. We have to understand that not everybody wants to spend (often fruitless) hours in the freezing cold trying to find little dots or fuzzy patches, amazingly. Young people have notoriously short attention spans and suffer from temporary fads and for every child with a scope, I'd bet only one in twenty goes on to take up astro as a hobby.

My daughter is a case in point. When she was young, nothing would do but to learn to play the violin. I bought her a nice one and a teacher....as soon as she discovered that she actually had to practise, that was it. When a teenager, she wanted to play the guitar. So I bought a Fender acoustic for Xmas. No, again, too much trouble to bother practising. A few years ago, she wanted a telescope. I bought her one but she couldn't be bothered to get it out. I've given up! 😂

[Macavity]

I suppose, the ubiquitous 1960's 30x30 (terrestrial) refractor COULD have dissuaded...
But I TRIED everything - even Solar Projection! Determination? Darwinian Selection? 😁

On a sadder note, local Astrol Soc once sent around a chap to buy my pristine EQ3-2.
He turned up with some horrid, home-made, 6-inch reflector - Weighed "half a Ton"! 😱
Someone from the local society had offloaded their heap of JUNK onto him!?!
But he was not that stupid. Beat me down to 30% of the EQ3-2 price. 🤨

But, perhaps it is also the responsibility of Astronomers to work out if someone (adult),
has any aptitude, towards becoming an Astronomer? Hey, I gave a "two hour intro" to
Astronomy? Clearly, he understood nothing! <sigh> His *girlfriend* took notes tho... 😛
 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Macavity

[Peter Drew]

37 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

I'm with David on this one. We have to understand that not everybody wants to spend (often fruitless) hours in the freezing cold trying to find little dots or fuzzy patches, amazingly. Young people have notoriously short attention spans and suffer from temporary fads and for every child with a scope, I'd bet only one in twenty goes on to take up astro as a hobby.

My daughter is a case in point. When she was young, nothing would do but to learn to play the violin. I bought her a nice one and a teacher....as soon as she discovered that she actually had to practise, that was it. When a teenager, she wanted to play the guitar. So I bought a Fender acoustic for Xmas. No, again, too much trouble to bother practising. A few years ago, she wanted a telescope. I bought her one but she couldn't be bothered to get it out. I've given up! 😂

I bet she has a "nice" phone.     🙂

[cajen2]

12 minutes ago, Peter Drew said:

I bet she has a "nice" phone.     🙂

But of course. I didn't buy it for her! 😉

[Peter Drew]

1 minute ago, cajen2 said:

But of course. I didn't buy it for her! 😉

Problem solved.   🙂

[GrumpiusMaximus]

In the UK, we generally have fairly limited conditions to observe and particularly so if we live in a typical suburban or city neighbourhood.  I live in a new build development in the South-East and my garden is overlooked and the sky isn't as dark as it was when we moved here.  There are clouds a significant portion of the year and finding the energy to go out in the evening after work is difficult.

I have a Celestron C5 SE that was handed down to me after my Dad bought himself a C8.  A really lovely gift for which I am very grateful, however the fact that I couldn't use the SE mount without finding power and setting it up meant that I had to commit to some time outside to use the scope 'properly' and there are other demands on my time.  When I got the 100P I put the mount on a heavy-duty photographic tripod I have used that for both the 100P and for the C5 for an exceptionally quick setup.  Just grab the tripod from my (outdoor) office and plonk it down in the garden.

This last week I've got an AZ-GTI which can be used manually as well as do GOTO, but in a package of similar portability and weight.  When the clouds eventually clear in five years or so, I'll be able to set that up and go for some short observing sessions.

There's a lot to be said for a setup that can be grabbed quickly and set up with the minimum of fuss as it maximises the number of opportunities we have to observe, even if those sessions are for ten minutes.  That's how you truly get into the hobby, you observe as often as you can.  Unless you live in Colorado or somewhere with better weather and a more sparse population than the UK, getting anything that requires significant setup is a real commitment of time and many of us just don't have that time to commit.  Getting yourself a 16" Obsession is great if you're going to use it but for the vast majority of people that just want to get out there and observe, 250GBP will buy them something that they can achieve that objective with.  A Flextube 130P is less than 200GBP and is all the telescope that you need to see a lot of interesting deep sky objects.  Look for a good deal on an eyepiece and you can get something reasonable with the remaining 50GBP.  Stretch the budget to 400GBP and you're looking at an 8" Dobsonian from FLO - which for visual work is more telescope than many of us will ever need!

It's about maximising your opportunities to observe, with the minimum of fuss and not creating the excuses.  'I'm too tired', 'it takes too long to set up', 'I've only got 15 minutes before it clouds over'.  Get into the mindset with a simple setup and then you're hooked!

[Mandy D]

@GrumpiusMaximus my 200P goes out more often than any other scope I have, because, as you say, it is quick and easy. I can be out there and imaging inside of 10 minutes. 20 minutes and it is performing at it's very best. I have it configured to go on it's original Dobsonian base and it is fitted with rings and a Vixen dovetail to go on the Skytee 2 if I intend to spend more time with it. This gives me the best of both worlds.

[nickarp2000]

When I decide to go out into the garden and set up my gear for an imaging run (which with our weather isnt often) I always invite my grandson to join me and I wheel out my old 10" dob and allow him to sweep the skies and get used to simple focus runs with varying eyepieces. He loves just being out there under the skies and mapping his own way around. I will give him some simple bright targets to try and find and in this way he is learning his way around the sky.

He is only 10 years old and I have resisted buying him a EQ mounted  scope as I just think it would be too much for him to deal with at the moment, even a lower value Alt system wouldnt benefit him.

The grab and go status of a Dobsonian keeps him interested.

[Paz]

On 05/11/2023 at 10:07, cajen2 said:

I'm with David on this one. We have to understand that not everybody wants to spend (often fruitless) hours in the freezing cold trying to find little dots or fuzzy patches, amazingly. Young people have notoriously short attention spans and suffer from temporary fads and for every child with a scope, I'd bet only one in twenty goes on to take up astro as a hobby.

My daughter is a case in point. When she was young, nothing would do but to learn to play the violin. I bought her a nice one and a teacher....as soon as she discovered that she actually had to practise, that was it. When a teenager, she wanted to play the guitar. So I bought a Fender acoustic for Xmas. No, again, too much trouble to bother practising. A few years ago, she wanted a telescope. I bought her one but she couldn't be bothered to get it out. I've given up! 😂

I agree. I've tried to inspire my kids but I dont have a good track record. They will have a polite look through a scope sometimes if I say there's something exciting to look at, but that's it.

I bought a 1/2 sized guitar for them when they were young, ready to show them how play anything they liked on the radio, or rather Spotify, but with no success.

The main thing they have been inspired by is their gaming PCs.

[John]

On 05/11/2023 at 16:02, GrumpiusMaximus said:

.....There's a lot to be said for a setup that can be grabbed quickly and set up with the minimum of fuss as it maximises the number of opportunities we have to observe, even if those sessions are for ten minutes.  That's how you truly get into the hobby, you observe as often as you can.....  

👍👍👍