Help with different camera options for a beginner

[Balthazar Saissore]

Hi all, I have been circling around the idea of getting started with astrophotography for about a year now and I think I'm finally ready for making my first equipment purchase.

I'm greatly interested capturing in deep sky objects and specifically nebulae, although as I've only seen other people's images I hope i can actually pull it off.

I'm leaning towards getting a DSLR since it's a low cost option and offers versatility but there are so many different options between that and dedicated astro cameras that it's really hard to decide on a specific thing.

The most important factor I keep hearing is getting your DSLR astromodified but once again there is a variety of options.

So my question is, assuming I have the option to get a DSLR from (60d, 700,750d,800d) for pretty cheap (200€-300€) how much of a difference would it make to get it astromodified (with extra cost and hassle) and then which modification would be more fitting (baader, UV/IR, full spectrum etc.)

Also assuming the above, would it be more prudent to spend the 600€ to get a dedicated astro cam instead, knowing I would have to wait until I get a telescope as well before I can start taking pictures?

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Ps. I live in Europe and the used astro market is pretty limited in my country so I'm also open to any suggestions for second hand stores on the EU side.

[Dazzyt66]

@Balthazar Saissore you don’t really need to get a telescope if you go down the DSLR route. You can get some pretty impressive DSO imaging done with stock lenses. There is loads of info on here and other sources (YouTube etc.) on how to do this. The most important thing is the mount you will need, depending on how seriously you want to go. I image with a modified DSLR and an HEQ5 mount and get sufficiently good images for my liking. Everyone is different though. I don’t use fancy lenses, I buy used M42 from eBay and use with an adaptor on a modified Canon 1100d.

Starting out this way is relatively cheap for AP and gets you used to the whole process from capturing to processing. You can then decide to expand as you wish.

Hope that helps.

Daz

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Dazzyt66

[Elp]

To take truly good deep sky you need:

A. The equipment to ensure little issues (you will encounter issues), and good equipment to encounter minimal issues usually costs.

B. Good post processing skills, I'd say 60-70% plus in getting a good image is post processing skills.

Now, it's not to say you cannot do it on a budget, when I started I used a simple compact camera which could take 30s images in raw and just used a photo tripod. Yes the images were noisy, full of coma on the stars, but I was glad I could image the milky way and even got Andromeda (tiny in the frame) and a meteor in the same shot, still like that image to this day.

Going deeper or more zoomed in requires more investment. But you can start with a modified dslr and a good lens, plus a star tracker and a decent tripod. Dslr I went with a stage 1 mod (IR filter removed only) Canon 600D as I liked the articulated screen (trust me). Star tracker I went with the Skywatcher Star Adventurer (standard one non goto). 

A DSLR is a good start, but they can be noisy (remember no cooling), calibration frames sometimes difficult depending on the camera and ultimately their quantum efficiency isn't as high as a dedicated astro camera. Soon after I got a cooled astro camera and still use the same one. There's still noise but it's much finer. All astro photos have a noise reduction applied to the images to make them smooth, so don't expect that from your raw images.

The SA was soon replaced with an azgti as it was still compact but had goto. Then it was converted to EQ mode so more expense.

The general trend for AP is you will spend more and more money and there really isn't a limit as you're always looking for the next "upgrade" which usually doesn't add to the end result dramatically.

The one item I would wholeheartedly recommend whether you do go dslr or astro cam (you can use it for both) is a Samyang 135mm F2/T2.2 lens, one of the finest pieces of equipment I've ever used. You'll be limited in focal length but the quality and speed is excellent.

For a dedicated astro camera you don't necessarily need to go cooled either, I use uncooled ones regularly for deep sky (modern CMOS ones).

You can start with just the camera and a widefield lens and try with that, though you'll likely be limited to around 10s exposures per image. If you get results then slowly upgrade. Minimal spend for a goto camera starter rig I'd say 1000 if you're very frugal and lucky to find the equipment used, to 2000 depending on what you choose.

If you want to keep it simpler still, consider the fairly new Dwarflabs Dwarf2, or the soon to be released ZWO Seestar, they will eventually have their limitations for your usage but they are priced competitively for all in one packages.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Elp

[pipnina]

I think to a certain extent, when starting out, the best AP equipment is the stuff you already have!

I've taken passable astro photos (as well as others here) on my Google Pixel 6 phone! It takes more effort but you will always run up against the cost vs performance paradox.

If you could outline the rough total amount of money you would want to spend on the whole setup, it would be easy to work out a few (relatively) inexpensive options for you!

If we say 600 euros is your total, you might look at something like a mk1 star adventurer, plus a tripod (I use a manfrotto 055, but that is a bit pricy, as long as you get something rigid it should be ok!), you will by this point probably need to settle for a DSLR + kit lens.

I see skywatcher sells a tripod specifically for the SA now, both the SA kit and tripod together come to about £430 (not sure how much for in europe). This would leave about £170 for the camera and lens, a bit of a squeeze! You could potentially get a canon 1200d for this however... Relatively modern DSLR with an ok kit lens.

Certainly a setup like that can do fairly well, given some processing and a fair bit of exposure time.

I captured this years ago on a Nikon D3200 on a star adventurer, but i forget how much exposure time:

This was before any processing, at the widest fov I think (18mm). Don't ask me about the framing, I don't remember taking the shot! haha.

You can see orion clearly and there's some flame nebula... maybe a bit of horsy shining through as well?

I re-processed it when I bought PixInsight and the hidden details it brought out of this super-cheap setup (My D3200 was also unmodified and second hand) was stunning. I think some people can achieve similar processing results with free tools like siril but I have never tried it.

In this process of the same image, suddenly we see milky way dust lanes, much more pronounced nebulae in orion, maybe a bit of barnard's loop? (!) and the rosette appears as well.

You might outgrow this kit lens fast, but once you have your feet on the ground with this you can switch it out for something like a 100mm-ish lens that runs faster. I captured this on the same setup, but replacing my 18-55mm kit lens with a sigma 105mm f2.8 macro:

Again this is a reprocess in pixinsight, but it's original data from a Nikon D3200, star adventurer on a tripod and a lens I bought a year or so after getting the star adventurer.

At this time my camera was NOT astro modified! So all that hydrogen is in spite of the filter being in place.

I did modify my D3200 eventually... However despite it initially being a success I did manage to disrupt the camera, it really is quite fiddly to get one of these things apart AND back together again!

After modifying I did get some very nice looking nebulae, but the camera developed a bit of a banding effect (you can see two wide darkening lines going horizontally). If you decide to mod the camera, do so if you know you can afford to replace or upgrade if it goes wrong!

I hope this helps inspire some confidence, as it is very challenging to get into AP on a sub £1k budget, but I think even a basic setup as described will get you hooked, and there is a lot of room to improve even on just the star adventurer mount (mostly via lens upgrades).

good luck and have fun!

[Balthazar Saissore]

1 hour ago, Dazzyt66 said:

@Balthazar Saissore you don’t really need to get a telescope if you go down the DSLR route. You can get some pretty impressive DSO imaging done with stock lenses. There is loads of info on here and other sources (YouTube etc.) on how to do this. The most important thing is the mount you will need, depending on how seriously you want to go. I image with a modified DSLR and an HEQ5 mount and get sufficiently good images for my liking. Everyone is different though. I don’t use fancy lenses, I buy used M42 from eBay and use with an adaptor on a modified Canon 1100d.

Starting out this way is relatively cheap for AP and gets you used to the whole process from capturing to processing. You can then decide to expand as you wish.

Hope that helps.

Daz

 

 

 

I thought with DSLR you could only do very wide field photography making pictures of most deep sky objects impossible to capture without some pretty heavy lenses. By that I mean I've been using the astronomy tools field of view calculator to actually see what I would need to get a view I would be satisfied with in my photos and what I ended up thinking was that if I went the DSLR route and went with lenses then later on switching to a dedicated astrocam would require me to get a telescope as well. 

While I do enjoy the idea of being versatile and having the ability to take wide pics as well as more zoomed in ones, the used cameras I have currently found all come with either 55mm lenses or none at all meaning I would have to spend at least another 200€-300€ to get a new lens (going off of what I can see as new prices for 135mm and 250mm lenses) which would eventually be cutting a big chunk of what I could be saving towards a telescope.

With regards to the mount, I too have been looking towards the HEQ5 although the price tag is pretty steep and I have not found any used options meaning I have to wait until I can gather upwards of 1000€ to get it and I kind of opted for leaving that for later

Might be wise to add that I don't have the greatest experience with ebay, and it costs a lot to get stuff in from outside of europe but I'd have to take a look to see if I can find things a bit cheaper there.

1 hour ago, Elp said:

To take truly good deep sky you need:

A. The equipment to ensure little issues (you will encounter issues), and good equipment to encounter minimal issues usually costs.

B. Good post processing skills, I'd say 60-70% plus in getting a good image is post processing skills.

Now, it's not to say you cannot do it on a budget, when I started I used a simple compact camera which could take 30s images in raw and just used a photo tripod. Yes the images were noisy, full of coma on the stars, but I was glad I could image the milky way and even got Andromeda (tiny in the frame) and a meteor in the same shot, still like that image to this day.

Going deeper or more zoomed in requires more investment. But you can start with a modified dslr and a good lens, plus a star tracker and a decent tripod. Dslr I went with a stage 1 mod (IR filter removed only) Canon 600D as I liked the articulated screen (trust me). Star tracker I went with the Skywatcher Star Adventurer (standard one non goto). 

A DSLR is a good start, but they can be noisy (remember no cooling), calibration frames sometimes difficult depending on the camera and ultimately their quantum efficiency isn't as high as a dedicated astro camera. Soon after I got a cooled astro camera and still use the same one. There's still noise but it's much finer. All astro photos have a noise reduction applied to the images to make them smooth, so don't expect that from your raw images.

The SA was soon replaced with an azgti as it was still compact but had goto. Then it was converted to EQ mode so more expense.

The general trend for AP is you will spend more and more money and there really isn't a limit as you're always looking for the next "upgrade" which usually doesn't add to the end result dramatically.

The one item I would wholeheartedly recommend whether you do go dslr or astro cam (you can use it for both) is a Samyang 135mm F2/T2.2 lens, one of the finest pieces of equipment I've ever used. You'll be limited in focal length but the quality and speed is excellent.

For a dedicated astro camera you don't necessarily need to go cooled either, I use uncooled ones regularly for deep sky (modern CMOS ones).

You can start with just the camera and a widefield lens and try with that, though you'll likely be limited to around 10s exposures per image. If you get results then slowly upgrade. Minimal spend for a goto camera starter rig I'd say 1000 if you're very frugal and lucky to find the equipment used, to 2000 depending on what you choose.

If you want to keep it simpler still, consider the fairly new Dwarflabs Dwarf2, or the soon to be released ZWO Seestar, they will eventually have their limitations for your usage but they are priced competitively for all in one packages.

What I seem to be confused about is whether you can use a normal DSLR lens, like the Samyang you've recommended, both on an astrocamera and a DSLR, I've been operating under the assumption that this is not possible. Also if that is the case I mean this lens (as it shows up on market here) is about 600€ which is pretty steep for a lens considering I could definitely get a telescope for that much, I wouldn't say it'd be pushing me out of budget but I have to sort of strategically run through my list of things I'd like and kind of pick and choose where I'll save. 

I'd say I definitely understand the spending frenzy that comes with a hobby like this, doubt I've had any hobby so far that didn't come with constant mood of "ooh shinny", but I've set a budget of about 2k as a reasonable goal, the most problematic items being the telescope and goto mount, which together on their own would set me back 2k and are impossible to find used (here at least) or order from abroad due to weight. I've already started thinking about more and more upgrades I could make to my setup based on what looks cool but I do realize that my ideal budget of 5k is not a good idea for now. Hence why I went with the idea of getting a DSLR first since it would offer some minimal ability to get started and mitigate the insatiable desire to go out and start taking pictures without requiring me to commit the entire sum straight up, like a 300€ camera with a 55mm lens should be good enough to keep me occupied and honing my skills until I can afford to get the mount and then the telescope (I think at least) do you think I'm approaching this wrong?

[Elp]

Unfortunately AP is not cheap.

You can do it cheaply as ive recommended with a DSLR and normal tripod, but to get good data you do need to up your budget considerably, bare minimum you'd need a star tracker (or can DIY make a barn door tracker) and good tripod (do NOT skimp on the tripod, it's possibly the most important item). If you're using an fov calculator and what you've said, I suspect you're looking to image galaxies. The vast majority of galaxies are small barring around half a dozen, if you want to image the rest will usually require a second setup with a medium to longish focal length. Its best to start in one area and grow from there. There are more good sized nebulae to image rather than galaxies which are possible with camera lens focal lengths.

Another thing you need to realise, if you want good optics, they cost. There's a reason good dslr lenses (or scopes) cost almost as much as or more than camera bodies, but a lot of their cost comes from fast fstops, optical stabilization (which doesn't apply in AP) and longer focal length. Note though, most dslr lenses aren't suited to AP, the Samyang ED range is an exception. Some vintage lenses also work well if you know which ones to look for like Takumars.

As mentioned the Samyang 135 works with astro cams via a lens adaptor, you might also need some extension rings to get the right backspacing distance for the camera to reach focus onto the sensor.

You need to factor in at least 10% of your budget into accessories, cables, fixings and hardware (dovetails, clamps etc). This is before you've factored in some computer camera/plan controller, if you've got a laptop handy you've got freedom to use NINA or equivalent but it's another item to connect up and learn. With a DSLR it's a self contained unit, the only thing you'd have to add is an intervalometer if one isn't built in.

Where are you based, a lot of reputable astronomy sellers ship internationally. As mentioned also you don't need to buy new, you save so much buying from genuine astronomy users.

I'd suggest you look at a few YT videos, many people on there show their setups and what they image with them.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Elp

[Balthazar Saissore]

57 minutes ago, pipnina said:

I think to a certain extent, when starting out, the best AP equipment is the stuff you already have!

I've taken passable astro photos (as well as others here) on my Google Pixel 6 phone! It takes more effort but you will always run up against the cost vs performance paradox.

If you could outline the rough total amount of money you would want to spend on the whole setup, it would be easy to work out a few (relatively) inexpensive options for you!

If we say 600 euros is your total, you might look at something like a mk1 star adventurer, plus a tripod (I use a manfrotto 055, but that is a bit pricy, as long as you get something rigid it should be ok!), you will by this point probably need to settle for a DSLR + kit lens.

I see skywatcher sells a tripod specifically for the SA now, both the SA kit and tripod together come to about £430 (not sure how much for in europe). This would leave about £170 for the camera and lens, a bit of a squeeze! You could potentially get a canon 1200d for this however... Relatively modern DSLR with an ok kit lens.

Certainly a setup like that can do fairly well, given some processing and a fair bit of exposure time.

I captured this years ago on a Nikon D3200 on a star adventurer, but i forget how much exposure time:

This was before any processing, at the widest fov I think (18mm). Don't ask me about the framing, I don't remember taking the shot! haha.

You can see orion clearly and there's some flame nebula... maybe a bit of horsy shining through as well?

I re-processed it when I bought PixInsight and the hidden details it brought out of this super-cheap setup (My D3200 was also unmodified and second hand) was stunning. I think some people can achieve similar processing results with free tools like siril but I have never tried it.

In this process of the same image, suddenly we see milky way dust lanes, much more pronounced nebulae in orion, maybe a bit of barnard's loop? (!) and the rosette appears as well.

You might outgrow this kit lens fast, but once you have your feet on the ground with this you can switch it out for something like a 100mm-ish lens that runs faster. I captured this on the same setup, but replacing my 18-55mm kit lens with a sigma 105mm f2.8 macro:

Again this is a reprocess in pixinsight, but it's original data from a Nikon D3200, star adventurer on a tripod and a lens I bought a year or so after getting the star adventurer.

At this time my camera was NOT astro modified! So all that hydrogen is in spite of the filter being in place.

I did modify my D3200 eventually... However despite it initially being a success I did manage to disrupt the camera, it really is quite fiddly to get one of these things apart AND back together again!

After modifying I did get some very nice looking nebulae, but the camera developed a bit of a banding effect (you can see two wide darkening lines going horizontally). If you decide to mod the camera, do so if you know you can afford to replace or upgrade if it goes wrong!

I hope this helps inspire some confidence, as it is very challenging to get into AP on a sub £1k budget, but I think even a basic setup as described will get you hooked, and there is a lot of room to improve even on just the star adventurer mount (mostly via lens upgrades).

good luck and have fun!

Those are some awesome pictures for sure and it's great to see the progression over the years through improving techniques I hope to also end up doing as well. Unfortunately gear I already have is a phone with a camera that I doubt is any good, I've tried taking long exposure night photos with it and it just looks very weird

Obviously I didn't do any postprocessing to these, but this was in the desert with iso as low as I could take it and pretty long exposures for a phone and I just felt that most likely there is something wrong with the phone, I fiddled with the settings and those 2 are the only viable pictures everything else is either too dark or too light polluted.

 

I am quite scared to perform a modification myself, but I've heard of a store in italy that will do it for 200€ and 1-2 months of processing and shipping back and forth so was considering that as an option but as I'll be without a camera for that entire duration I was trying to leverage how important astromods were and if so if I could find some place that sells them cheaper than astroshop since I am not willing to bay 1.4k for an astromodified 850d, not because I want that model but because out of all the ones they sell that's the only one that appealed to me. 

Realistically what I'm looking at is getting a used DSLR and a very basic tripod for a total of around 200€-300€ and then in the future sending it to italy to get modified with a baader filter (at least that's what I chose after reading a bit about the different astromods I don't really know if it's the best). I thought of maybe going straight to astrocams but I feel like I either have to be super lucky on everything and find everything used in a good condition and cheap to even get my setup under 2k with one. I would say I definitely need to do more research though.

[Elp]

You could try Juan at Cheap Astrophotography. If I were in your position I'd also consider the Dwarf or Seestar.

[Balthazar Saissore]

21 minutes ago, Elp said:

Unfortunately AP is not cheap.

You can do it cheaply as ive recommended with a DSLR and normal tripod, but to get good data you do need to up your budget considerably, bare minimum you'd need a star tracker (or can DIY make a barn door tracker) and good tripod (do NOT skimp on the tripod, it's possibly the most important item). If you're using an fov calculator and what you've said, I suspect you're looking to image galaxies. The vast majority of galaxies are small barring around half a dozen, if you want to image the rest will usually require a second setup with a medium to longish focal length. Its best to start in one area and grow from there. There are more good sized nebulae to image rather than galaxies which are possible with camera lens focal lengths.

Another thing you need to realise, if you want good optics, they cost. There's a reason good dslr lenses (or scopes) cost almost as much as or more than camera bodies, but a lot of their cost comes from fast fstops, optical stabilization (which doesn't apply in AP) and longer focal length. Note though, most dslr lenses aren't suited to AP, the Samyang ED range is an exception. Some vintage lenses also work well if you know which ones to look for like Takumars.

As mentioned the Samyang 135 works with astro cams via a lens adaptor, you might also need some extension rings to get the right backspacing distance for the camera to reach focus onto the sensor.

You need to factor in at least 10% of your budget into accessories, cables, fixings and hardware (dovetails, clamps etc). This is before you've factored in some computer camera/plan controller, if you've got a laptop handy you've got freedom to use NINA or equivalent but it's another item to connect up and learn. With a DSLR it's a self contained unit, the only thing you'd have to add is an intervalometer if one isn't built in.

Where are you based, a lot of reputable astronomy sellers ship internationally. As mentioned also you don't need to buy new, you save so much buying from genuine astronomy users.

I'd suggest you look at a few YT videos, many people on there show their setups and what they image with them.

Yup totally understandable, this is just a portion of the setup I'd like just enough to get started into taking pictures really. My plan is to get a telescope, a goto mount (heq5 seems to be the top contender) , and a guidance system to track via a smaller telescope (I assume that's what it's called but not sure). It's just that I can't spend everything at once so I'm compartmentalizing it to be able to get some use.

I did not actually know that some lenses are not suited to astrophotography or that they can be added to astrocams this adds a few possibilities of course. I have also allocated some money for cabling and assorted gear like boxes, cases etc. although one particular concern I had was the power supply since I don't have a backyard and will need to be far away from any power outlets.

I'm currently based in Greece, there is one shop here that has a range of items, and then the other one I've been browsing is astroshop eu . The big issue I've been facing is the import fees anything imported outside of the eu will have a pretty hefty import tax that would make it unreasonably expensive and most likely increase the chance of damage to the item or it being lost. Basically if I order something from the UK or US directly to Greece I have to pay vat on it's original msrp, and the item will be stuck in customs for quite a while. If I find something of great value of course I could probably sort something out where I personally pick it up from the UK for example but yea you get the gist. That's why I've stayed on retail shops and only eu based so far. 

Yeah YT has pretty much been my main source of information and ideas for the past years but as I've come to know, many times it's better to ask people than trust influencers I came here for a more concise source of info 

[Balthazar Saissore]

34 minutes ago, Elp said:

You could try Juan at Cheap Astrophotography. If I were in your position I'd also consider the Dwarf or Seestar.

I will give that site a look thanks for the tip.

As for the dwarf or Seestar, I checked them out, and I don't know something feels off about a system like that of course you have a great deal of experience so I'll definitely be giving that a look, but as they have not come out yet I would wait to see how they fair before actually considering it.  I'm just very cautious when it comes to jack of all trades type of machines (which I assume those could be classed as) as I've been burned before by thinking it would be a good choice. 

It's hard considering I am not that familiar with all the terminologies therefore my opinion of a camera is biased only by what I hear and not really by any personal experience or knowledge.

Edit: I checked Cheap Astrophotography and it seems they have good prices on modifications, that might be tax free since It'd be my camera I'd be sending in, thanks for the tip 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Balthazar Saissore

[Elp]

Try Teleskop Express based in Germany. This forum, if you've gathered enough rep through interaction now also has an EU classifieds used equipment section.

Even if you're in the EU, I'm sure you'll get hit with import duty (if applicable to the item imported) and local taxes anyway due to the values of the items.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Elp

[Cosmic Geoff]

22 minutes ago, Balthazar Saissore said:

As for the dwarf or Seestar, I checked them out, and I don't know something feels off about a system like that of course you have a great deal of experience so I'll definitely be giving that a look, but as they have not come out yet I would wait to see how they fair before actually considering it. 

The Dwarf2 (already available) and Seestar S50 (coming soon) are apparently intended for EVA style quick imaging rather than traditional astrophotography.  I have done EVA (electronically assisted visual astronomy) with a 102mm f5 achro, ASI224MC camera and EQ5 Synscan mount, + laptop - all gear I had already.   The Seestar S50 does the same thing, but in a much smaller and more automated package.

[Elp]

They can also be sold on quite easily if deemed not adequate. Also probably the best solution out there if imaging regularly off site as a starting venture, especially if power requirements get factored in.

[Balthazar Saissore]

53 minutes ago, Elp said:

Try Teleskop Express based in Germany. This forum, if you've gathered enough rep through interaction now also has an EU classifieds used equipment section.

Even if you're in the EU, I'm sure you'll get hit with import duty (if applicable to the item imported) and local taxes anyway due to the values of the items.

I'll give that a look as well thank you. 

Luckily no import taxes apply when buying within the EU regardless of item value so it'll be no issue, that's not to say that customs won't decide to check it out thoroughly but in the end it's just a checkup.

53 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

The Dwarf2 (already available) and Seestar S50 (coming soon) are apparently intended for EVA style quick imaging rather than traditional astrophotography.  I have done EVA (electronically assisted visual astronomy) with a 102mm f5 achro, ASI224MC camera and EQ5 Synscan mount, + laptop - all gear I had already.   The Seestar S50 does the same thing, but in a much smaller and more automated package.

That is a bit confusing, I assume then if you're using software to guide the camera as well as goto etc it would be considered EVA as well? I did check a video out for the dwarf and I can see the quick and easy part for sure.

48 minutes ago, Elp said:

They can also be sold on quite easily if deemed not adequate. Also probably the best solution out there if imaging regularly off site as a starting venture, especially if power requirements get factored in.

Yeah from what I saw in reviews just now, the setup is very complete, for 400$ you get a full set of gear.

The power is definitely concern since my laptop is very power hungry and in any setup that required it would mean I need a very powerful mobile power source, not that running a mount and the cameras wouldn't take a toll as well but the PSU for the laptop is 280W.

Having said that, I think based on the quality of the images alone I'd rather hold off and get a proper setup. I mean we've already established that astrophotography just keeps luring you into getting more things, and even with the possibility of reselling it I think it's a valuable tool and something I feel I'd be holding on to or getting once I already had a proper setup and was looking into something more mobile and versatile.

[Elp]

If you want mobile have a look at the azgti owners forum and see what we have been achieving. The more modern model would be the Star Adventurer GTI though I think it's a bit pricy for what it is (same payload as the azgti for example).

For mobile power, a asiair gen 1 and asiair mini can be powered by a usb power bank though you may struggle to power additional kit from the asiair, but it takes the laptop out of the equation. You can also do the same with a raspberry pi with astroberry or Stellarmate installed. A mini pc is also a mobile solution but I'm not familiar with their usage.

The good thing about the azgti is I can power the asiair via something small like a Celestron Lithium LT, and the power the azgti via the asiair 12v outs (not on the gen 1 version), works for around 2-3 hours.

The air ties you to zwo astro cameras and automation equipment however, most popular other manufacturer mounts are supported though as are some Canon, Nikon and now Sony cameras.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Elp

[Balthazar Saissore]

9 hours ago, Elp said:

If you want mobile have a look at the azgti owners forum and see what we have been achieving. The more modern model would be the Star Adventurer GTI though I think it's a bit pricy for what it is (same payload as the azgti for example).

For mobile power, a asiair gen 1 and asiair mini can be powered by a usb power bank though you may struggle to power additional kit from the asiair, but it takes the laptop out of the equation. You can also do the same with a raspberry pi with astroberry or Stellarmate installed. A mini pc is also a mobile solution but I'm not familiar with their usage.

The good thing about the azgti is I can power the asiair via something small like a Celestron Lithium LT, and the power the azgti via the asiair 12v outs (not on the gen 1 version), works for around 2-3 hours.

The air ties you to zwo astro cameras and automation equipment however, most popular other manufacturer mounts are supported though as are some Canon, Nikon and now Sony cameras.

I checked the azgti, it looks very compact. I never thought of using a raspberry pi honestly, but it sounds like a solid option I would have to check out. 

The asiair looks like a good option for managing everything from your phone if I'm seeing this right which definitely adds to the mobile side. 

I think I have to calculate the power usage for my setup before the controller and see what kind of power supply I would need. Primarily if I can power everything but the laptop then I could see me relying on the laptop battery for 3h and then plug-in to an outlet. If on the other hand everything is too power hungry I might have to consider going towards a setup like the one you described and opt for a mobile controller.

There are just so many options to consider about each part of a build that I gets way overwhelming for a beginner.

[M40]

Hello Balthazar, welcome to the site. You couldn't be more right in saying its overwhelming, thing is with this hobby is there is always something to learn. If you decide to go down the dslr route, have a look at some yt stuff on backyardeos. It's very good. One thing with that is that you will soon learn you need some sort of tracking mount if you are going to get the results you look like you are after, so thats what you need to concentrate on. As Elp said, look at the azgti owners thread and see what has been achieved and what they are using.

Don't forget that you probably already have a very capable camera in your mobile. A few pennies on a specialist app enabling you to fully control your camera could be a very good and cost effective first step. There is also a mobile imaging section on the site so have a look to see exactly what people are achieving.

I bought a used canon eos100D and never got it modified, I believe the mod removes some of the red?? Hopefully someone will correct me, anyway don't worry about getting it modified straight away, obtaining any sort of picture is a phenominal first step. 

So my thoughts are look to the mount, use your mobile or dslr and go from there. You will then know what you need to do to move forward. We all start somewhere, personally I started with a dob and mobile phone on the eyepiece. All the best and enjoy.

 

[Starflyer]

You could ask if this is still available, it's a good starter camera, already modified, and for a decent price.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/398782-astro-modified-canon-eos1100d/

[Balthazar Saissore]

1 hour ago, M40 said:

Hello Balthazar, welcome to the site. You couldn't be more right in saying its overwhelming, thing is with this hobby is there is always something to learn. If you decide to go down the dslr route, have a look at some yt stuff on backyardeos. It's very good. One thing with that is that you will soon learn you need some sort of tracking mount if you are going to get the results you look like you are after, so thats what you need to concentrate on. As Elp said, look at the azgti owners thread and see what has been achieved and what they are using.

Don't forget that you probably already have a very capable camera in your mobile. A few pennies on a specialist app enabling you to fully control your camera could be a very good and cost effective first step. There is also a mobile imaging section on the site so have a look to see exactly what people are achieving.

I bought a used canon eos100D and never got it modified, I believe the mod removes some of the red?? Hopefully someone will correct me, anyway don't worry about getting it modified straight away, obtaining any sort of picture is a phenominal first step. 

So my thoughts are look to the mount, use your mobile or dslr and go from there. You will then know what you need to do to move forward. We all start somewhere, personally I started with a dob and mobile phone on the eyepiece. All the best and enjoy.

 

Interesting, I saw some really nice pictures in that section although I doubt my phone can really take any of similar quality (Xiaomi 11).

So you are suggesting that I'd be better off ignoring the DSLR and try for a mount and telescope first which really opens up possibilities but at the same time moves the goal post a bit further away, meaning I'm assuming I'll have to wait longer to start imaging with a phone than with a DSLR since I'll be needing both mount and scope, which are both pretty big ticket items compared to the camera.

I might try to give it a shot for some night time photography just with the phone and see if I can grab any good pics without investing any in a mount or scope and move on from there, most likely will need a tripod though. I assume there's also apps to increase the functionality of phone camera hopefully.

[pipnina]

11 minutes ago, Starflyer said:

You could ask if this is still available, it's a good starter camera, already modified, and for a decent price.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/398782-astro-modified-canon-eos1100d/

I second this: Only consideration is that it does not include lens.

160 euro + cost of lens + (in my opinion) skywatcher star adventurer and tripod would be a bit over 600 euros total

@Balthazar Saissore Can I ask again if you have a particular budget in mind to get your total equipment setup?

[Balthazar Saissore]

12 minutes ago, Starflyer said:

You could ask if this is still available, it's a good starter camera, already modified, and for a decent price.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/398782-astro-modified-canon-eos1100d/

Sorry don't seem to be able to access that post. I'm assuming I need to spend more time in this forum before I can.

[Balthazar Saissore]

1 minute ago, pipnina said:

I second this: Only consideration is that it does not include lens.

160 euro + cost of lens + (in my opinion) skywatcher star adventurer and tripod would be a bit over 600 euros total

@Balthazar Saissore Can I ask again if you have a particular budget in mind to get your total equipment setup?

That's a pretty good price indeed, for already astromodified.

The star adventurer seems pretty cheap I'd have to take a look at specs and see if it's future proof enough for my plans.

Realistic budget is around 2-3k for mount, camera, modification, mount and some small peripherals the extended budget that I'd like to keep under in the long term is 5k and by that I mean for the next 2years. Basically was thinking of waiting along for good deals as much as possible working towards an ideal setup over the 2yrs and gathering money on the side.

Ideally I'd like to have a setup with a good eq mount (considering heq5), a telescope (I really liked the William optics zenistar series but pretty influenced by yt on that), a guide scope and guide camera, and a DSLR with plans to expand to a dedicated astro cam beyond the 2yrs mark if I decide I want to delve deeper.

The only thing I was considering buying was an unmodified 700d with 2 lenses 55mm and 300mm for around 280€ or a 750d with a 55mm lens for same price. There are some other contenders but those seem to be the best deals I've found locally.

Obviously nothing is set in stone hence why I'm here asking questions.

[pipnina]

29 minutes ago, Balthazar Saissore said:

That's a pretty good price indeed, for already astromodified.

The star adventurer seems pretty cheap I'd have to take a look at specs and see if it's future proof enough for my plans.

Realistic budget is around 2-3k for mount, camera, modification, mount and some small peripherals the extended budget that I'd like to keep under in the long term is 5k and by that I mean for the next 2years. Basically was thinking of waiting along for good deals as much as possible working towards an ideal setup over the 2yrs and gathering money on the side.

Ideally I'd like to have a setup with a good eq mount (considering heq5), a telescope (I really liked the William optics zenistar series but pretty influenced by yt on that), a guide scope and guide camera, and a DSLR with plans to expand to a dedicated astro cam beyond the 2yrs mark if I decide I want to delve deeper.

The only thing I was considering buying was an unmodified 700d with 2 lenses 55mm and 300mm for around 280€ or a 750d with a 55mm lens for same price. There are some other contenders but those seem to be the best deals I've found locally.

Obviously nothing is set in stone hence why I'm here asking questions.

I think it could be a good idea to start small first, then as you say work up.

If you got the initial kit as described you can get going quickly, get several hours of images without needing a laptop or big battery bank (camera and star adventurer run off internal batteries, my SA's AAs lasted for about a year) and once you start upgrading, like you say you can do things like pick up that battery tank and a HEQ5 (maybe stretch to an EQ6-R as it's a good jump up for the price), then replace the camera lens with a telescope, then later again replace the camera with a cooled astrocam.

I think spending several years buying parts that you can't use maybe doesn't make the most sense, but if you get a cheap setup and then slowly replace bits in the right order you'll end up in the same place, but will have been imaging for 2 years instead of collecting cardboard boxes!

Hopefully this makes sense and I'm not waffling haha

[Balthazar Saissore]

45 minutes ago, pipnina said:

I think it could be a good idea to start small first, then as you say work up.

If you got the initial kit as described you can get going quickly, get several hours of images without needing a laptop or big battery bank (camera and star adventurer run off internal batteries, my SA's AAs lasted for about a year) and once you start upgrading, like you say you can do things like pick up that battery tank and a HEQ5 (maybe stretch to an EQ6-R as it's a good jump up for the price), then replace the camera lens with a telescope, then later again replace the camera with a cooled astrocam.

I think spending several years buying parts that you can't use maybe doesn't make the most sense, but if you get a cheap setup and then slowly replace bits in the right order you'll end up in the same place, but will have been imaging for 2 years instead of collecting cardboard boxes!

Hopefully this makes sense and I'm not waffling haha

The only concern I have is, if I am to buy a piece of gear like the star adventurer costing about 500€ but the a year down the line deciding to upgrade it I will be -500 off the target. The way I am thinking about the setup is, if I am going to do it I might as well do it right instead of needing to constantly upgrade.

In this case the mount has a very small load capacity which makes me concerned about using it in the future with a telescope for example meaning I'd be needing a new one, and this you end up with an old + new cost situation. Of course you could resell but that's again taking a chance that someone will want it (obviously no idea of the market for second hand gear in Europe).

But you do have a point about having things sitting in boxes for years waiting for a setup to be completed. This is why my original plan was DSLR first, mount second, telescope last, meaning everything I got would be used straight away even in a limited capacity. I really do have to find some used prices though because it's a different comparison when you compare it, 500 now and a used heq5 for 800 later for example would still be preferable than 1300 now or 1300+500.

For the power side as I've said it is a concern I'll definitely have to address since getting power in the middle of the mountains is always problematic and a power unit adds extra cost to the setup.

[M40]

1 hour ago, Balthazar Saissore said:

So you are suggesting that I'd be better off ignoring the DSLR and try for a mount and telescope first

Sorry for confusing things. My current grab and go is heq5 tripod, battery pack, azgti with wedge and dslr but you could swap the dslr for a telescope and phone camera. You could also ditch the battery pack and use internal batteries on the azgti with a traditional camera tripod but I don't think you could start on AP with much less. If you started with dslr on a tripod you would be limited to exposure length so limiting what you can achieve. There are so many options it really is all about what you want to achieve and what can you sell on or take with you on the journey.