Are visual astronomers a dying breed?

[cajen2]

No doubt this will cause some controversy, but I've noticed the visual observers' section is well down on posts compared with the imagers'. I also note that the older members are, on average, often visual and the younger into imaging. With the advent of imaging from a warm room with a computer, electronic/computerised scopes, etc, plus the excellent images that modern equipment and software are capable of producing, is the guy standing by himself on a hill peering into a scope going the way of the dodo? Consider the result of all these trends in, say, 20 years.

[gilesco]

I'm not so sure it is young people imaging and older people doing visual. I'd think it the other way round.

My eyesight is so awful I can't visually see much through a telescope, but I can see the images on my screen just fine.

[Adam J]

I think its actually the effects of light pollution that is killing off visual astronomy. 

I would not take numbers of posts to be a good measure either. Imaging is arguably more technical with more that can go wrong. Also you can post a image on a forum making it a better match to the subject matter.   

Adam

Edited March 22, 2022 by Adam J

[NeonSpectres]

I recently picked up a 2" 38mm Panaview so I could enjoy some visual work although I'm still getting back into the hobby so focusing on the Imaging side at the moment. I guess it depends on what's available to see in the sky depending on location, time of year, familiarity with the objects, etc.?

[Kon]

29 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

No doubt this will cause some controversy, but I've noticed the visual observers' section is well down on posts compared with the imagers'. I also note that the older members are, on average, often visual and the younger into imaging. With the advent of imaging from a warm room with a computer, electronic/computerised scopes, etc, plus the excellent images that modern equipment and software are capable of producing, is the guy standing by himself on a hill peering into a scope going the way of the dodo? Consider the result of all these trends in, say, 20 years.

I would disagree with you regarding the visual observations/reports. There might not be as many full reports but the thread 'What did you see tonight?' is getting constant updates especially on clear nights. If I have a good long night of observing, then I prefer to write the longer reports but on quick sessions the above thread is excellent to share ideas.

I am new in the hobby but I never felt i wanted to to AP. I love seeing those photons with my own eyes. Yes I do take images and share them here or FB but i would not waste a good nights seeing for photos. I believe it is down to personal preference; but seeing certain questions on this forum from newcomers they are expecting AP colours in their visual telescopes so it is also lack of researching as well that may drive some to AP.

[doublevodka]

Pretty sure there are plenty of visual observers out there, you've only got to look at the popularity of dobs like the 200p, eyepiece resales etc.

As above much easier to share imaging content, there are probably less people into the traditional observing reports though. Personally I just got out with the scopes for a quick look at a few objects because time is limited, I think logging things, writing observation reports etc. would detract from that enjoyment but maybe that's just me 🤷‍♂️

Plus not everyone has the budget for a full imaging rig so there must be a fair few of us left doing just visual, we're just a bit less vocal maybe?

[Starwatcher2001]

+1 for light pollution being the problem. I started observing in the late nineties, then for various reasons didn't do any astronomy for twenty years. When I came back to the fold three years ago I was astonished at how much worse light pollution has become.  My old notes have a good number of galaxies spotted from my back garden, now I'm lucky if I can see Andromeda's core. It's not quite driven me to AP as I'd never have the patience, but it's really changed the things I observe.

[Paz]

I think ap is more popular than visual in general and in terms of lending itself more to online content,  but I think  astronomy as a whole is more accessible and more popular than it has ever been so everybody has cause to be positive.

 

[Alan White]

I think Astronomy as a hobby is very much alive and kicking judging by my club meetings, be it visual, imaging or both,
Many imagers also observe, while the imaging is going on judging by the various posts.
Let's face it the imagers probably keep the astro retailers more alive and kicking than the observers, but thats a good thing.

20 years time, I expect it will still be a very mixed bag and folks will happily be looking, observing and imaging as now. 

[cajen2]

I had a feeling this thread would cause a certain....indignation! Everything that has been said is true and valid, but I still get the feeling that just peering into a scope isn't exciting enough for many. We already have computerised scopes which will stack good images in seconds....what will happen when the price of these inevitably falls, perhaps to that of a common or garden dob or achro with mount? Convenience is a powerful attractor, along with the attraction of being at the forefront of technology. 

[johninderby]

You probably see more posts about AP as they need more help than visual observers.🤔

Think it’s probably about a 50 / 50 split between AP and visual.

Edited March 22, 2022 by johninderby

[ONIKKINEN]

I dont doubt that visual astronony is in decline due to light pollution increasing globally and most people cant easily access the quality skies needed for the best views. But i dont think visual is dying, or actually will probably ever die because it is enjoyable even through poor skies. It just takes an attitude and expectation shift for the viewer to understand that some views will not be happening under LP.  I find visual very satisfying whenever i convince myself to leave the camera at home even if the views are somewhat disappointing.

I think representation online plays a part on this perception of visual being on the way out too. Most of the time i dont feel like writing what i observed on a short session, but images i take will one day end up online. The process of taking and handling the images also sparks discussion far easier than observing IMO. 

I am maybe 90% imaging and 10% visual, but i dont think ill ever drop the visual side to 0.

[teoria_del_big_bang]

7 minutes ago, johninderby said:

You probably see more posts about AP as they need more help than visual observers.🤔

Think it’s probably about a 50 / 50 split between AP and visual.

I think this is very true.
The OP states there are more threads related to imaging than visual but I bet if you break the posts down into two piles, ones that show actual images or give descriptions of what they did last evening etc and the other asking what went wrong, or how do I do this etc then visual reports would beat the images pile hands down.

Don't get me wrong I am an outright imager these days (when skies allow which is not often in Gods own county 🙂 ) but on the occasions I do read some of the visual reports then I take my hat off to many of them, the descriptions and the sketches are superb and you can often feel their excitement in the wording of the reports, and I suspect a lot of visual astronomers do not share their reports or are even on any forum.

Steve

[kirkster501]

I do both equally.  I use the 300P Dob whilst the imaging rigs are running.  On some nights I simply CBA to be imaging.

[scarp15]

It is a niche hobby and there are lull periods on the forum, visual astronomy is by and large 'old school'. Typically also would expect that members on here; visual astronomers, have other interests, commitments, distractions and are therefore not consistently 'tuned in', pro-active in being out there and reporting on each successful outing.  Also as above, some of us have to load the car (or van) and venture to dark sites, which by definition reduces periods visually observing. However, 'dying out' old school or whatever doesn't really matter, as with other members on here, once the bug has bitten in this pursuit, it becomes a life long passion, adaptable with some determination to evolving health and eyesight circumstances. 

[johninderby]

Doesn’t matter if you are enjoying astronomy by visual or imaging just as long as you are enjoying it. 👍🏻

[teoria_del_big_bang]

6 minutes ago, kirkster501 said:

I do both equally.  I use the 300P Dob whilst the imaging rigs are running.  On some nights I simply CBA to be imaging.

I still have my Dob and think I should get back into visual as well as my AP.
Without an obsy one thing it has over imaging is that with imaging by the time you get going with a sequence you are happy with, scope out, cooled down, target framed etc and then the clouds roll in you could have had a good half hour or more observing and also a bit easy when the clouds are about to doge them as you see them approaching.

Steve

[Jiggy 67]

I don’t understand why there is an impression that visual is dying out….did anyone try to buy a telescope during the pandemic??? FLO, themselves, said that demand had gone through the roof. As for posts, no disrespect to the OP for the What did you see tonight thread but it has killed observing reports as they previously were.

[chiltonstar]

9 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Doesn’t matter if you are enjoying astronomy by visual or imaging just as long as you are enjoying it. 👍🏻

Absolutely - whether you enjoy the view of a globular cluster on a clear and still night, with a huge number of diamond points twinkling away, or getting your best image yet of a faint galaxy  the main thing is you are enjoying it.

Chris

[gilesco]

Of course, I do  visual every night I set up. I find Polaris in finder, then I find Polaris again in Polar Scope. Then I remove polar scope and finderscope and retreat to the nice indoors and plate solve a few positions. Then in the warmth of my home I perform star alignment until everything is working nice. Now I open a bottle of wine and start viewing. I might image in a way to obtain an end result or I may just go exploring, nice in the comfort of my study.

[tomato]

Based on the attendance at the recent Practical Astronomy Show, I think both visual and imaging is rapidly becoming a senior citizen pastime, but maybe the old timers (I’m in that category) like the hands on experience and face to face contact?

As regards post counts, I think it is quite easy to post an image with details of how it was captured and processed, but writing a good visual session report is quite a skill IMHO, not something everyone can do.

For those newcomers that want a Hubble style visual experience, then I think EEVA is the answer, and this arm of the hobby would really take off, if only the kit was a bit more affordable.

Edited March 22, 2022 by tomato

[banjaxed]

I have always been a visual observer who has thought about AP but when I see some of the superb images posted  by our members it makes me think how long it would take me to achieve such a high standard.

[wookie1965]

Takes me all my time take a picture using my phone never mind setting up cameras and guide scopes.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cajen2 said:

I had a feeling this thread would cause a certain....indignation! Everything that has been said is true and valid, but I still get the feeling that just peering into a scope isn't exciting enough for many. We already have computerised scopes which will stack good images in seconds....what will happen when the price of these inevitably falls, perhaps to that of a common or garden dob or achro with mount? Convenience is a powerful attractor, along with the attraction of being at the forefront of technology. 

What you said here is absolutely true.  My wife is looking at Stellina right now.  I asked why and her response was, it's astrophotography without the work.  I can't argue with her as it is basically a plug and play deal.  Then I asked the follow up...would you quit looking through the dob?  She said and I quote...."oh hell no".  So while the digital scopes are cool and do give almost instant gratification, there is still something to be said for standing there and practicing the art of visual astronomy.

[callisto]

I'm stuck in the middle...tecci skill's of a clown and eyes like Mr Magoo 🤪