New frac thoughts

[Knighty2112]

Hi all. Considering a new scope, and specifically a new refractor scope specifically for lunar and planetary work. Seen the Altair Starwave F11 102mm achromatic OTA which doesn't break the bank too much. With the longer focul length CA shouldn't be too noticible, and as I have no intention of doing any imaging with it then an APO scope seems a little expensive just for visual use. Anyone have one of these for visual use at all? Any feedback (good/bad) would be welcome.  

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/altair-starwave-102mm-f11-achromat-refractor-telescope-with-2-crayford-focuser.html

[xtreemchaos]

thats a very good choice knighty, i have my Ar127l f9.5 which is long like that , the only draw back of a lanky scope is wind thay dont hafe catch it, there will be very little Ca when doing vis if any. ive been looking and drooling over a Tec 140, i must resist. clear skys charl.

[Knighty2112]

5 minutes ago, xtreemchaos said:

thats a very good choice knighty, i have my Ar127l f9.5 which is long like that , the only draw back of a lanky scope is wind thay dont hafe catch it, there will be very little Ca when doing vis if any. ive been looking and drooling over a Tec 140, i must resist. clear skys charl.

Thanks Charl. I know the longer length will cause more issues with wind catching it, but hoping to get a Skytee mount to go with it to at some point if I do get one, which hopefully might cause less issues with wind due to more stability etc. Either way I can live with a little shaking. If it's too windy for it I'll use my shorter ST120 for those nights!  

[Stu]

20 minutes ago, Knighty2112 said:

Hi all. Considering a new scope, and specifically a new refractor scope specifically for lunar and planetary work. Seen the Altair Starwave F11 102mm achromatic OTA which doesn't break the bank too much. With the longer focul length CA shouldn't be too noticible, and as I have no intention of doing any imaging with it then an APO scope seems a little expensive just for visual use. Anyone have one of these for visual use at all? Any feedback (good/bad) would be welcome.  

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/altair-starwave-102mm-f11-achromat-refractor-telescope-with-2-crayford-focuser.html

The 102 f11s are very nice scopes and I'm sure you would be very happy with the performance on Planets, the moon and double stars. Would be nice on smaller DSOs too under a dark sky. Finally, with a Herschel wedge you would have lovely solar views.

I was very impressed with the view of Jupiter through Derek's scope at SGL II, very detailed and sharp.

[Knighty2112]

6 minutes ago, Stu said:

The 102 f11s are very nice scopes and I'm sure you would be very happy with the performance on Planets, the moon and double stars. Would be nice on smaller DSOs too under a dark sky. Finally, with a Herschel wedge you would have lovely solar views.

I was very impressed with the view of Jupiter through Derek's scope at SGL II, very detailed and sharp.

Thanks Stu. Seems to be a good scope. Seriously considering getting one.  

[Fozzie]

I've had mine for almost 2 years an out of my three scopes it's probably had the most use (if you exclude solar). 

I started with a celestron Omni 102 refractor with Xls coatings as a tester to see if I could get on with a frac, while that was not a bad scope second hand for less than 100, I quickly wanted something else, that was just generally better constructed, and configured.

The F11 ticked the boxes for me in that sense..  It is a much higher quality than the synta offerings right down to the tube rings.

I did a opening box review here..

I find it holds up to high mags on the moon very well, sweet spot between 150x to 240x (dependant on weather conditions) shown me the clearest Jupiter I've seen and with those bino viewers you've got the 3d effect on the lunar terminator is fantastic.

The focuser is nice and smooth although will need abit of a tweek after a while..  You do get some CA at higher mags, but I (have) used a semi apo filter and that takes care of any of it.. to be honest I don't even use it that often, prefer the unfiltered view.

 

In the interest of fairness though, a second hand ED100 would be at that price point, and the ED100 lens will be better, while the tube and focuser on the starwave is probably better.. I think it looks better too.. 

You might struggle with the az4 at higher mags, you'll defo need an extension pier, and either the sky tea or similar mount..

but it's a nice set up.. gets very heavy though..

 

I've had some good views of planetary nebs (blue snowball and eskimo) with it, good for splitting stars and bringing out colour too..

All in all a nice scope.. I was quite dismissive of an ED100 because I fell for the starwaves looks and romance of big FL frac.. must say though the lense on the 72mmed I have is great, can only imagine what a 100mmED would be like, but it could have swayed the decision a bit too quickly for my romantic side to have the final say

Don't know if that helps..

Ta

Fozzie

 

[Knighty2112]

5 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

I've had mine for almost 2 years an out of my three scopes it's probably had the most use (if you exclude solar). 

I started with a celestron Omni 102 refractor with Xls coatings as a tester to see if I could get on with a frac, while that was not a bad scope second hand for less than 100, I quickly wanted something else, that was just generally better constructed, and configured.

The F11 ticked the boxes for me in that sense..  It is a much higher quality than the synta offerings right down to the tube rings.

I did a opening box review here..

I find it holds up to high mags on the moon very well, sweet spot between 150x to 240x (dependant on weather conditions) shown me the clearest Jupiter I've seen and with those bino viewers you've got the 3d effect on the lunar terminator is fantastic.

The focuser is nice and smooth although will need abit of a tweek after a while..  You do get some CA at higher mags, but I (have) used a semi apo filter and that takes care of any of it.. to be honest I don't even use it that often, prefer the unfiltered view.

 

In the interest of fairness though, a second hand ED100 would be at that price point, and the ED100 lens will be better, while the tube and focuser on the starwave is probably better.. I think it looks better too.. 

You might struggle with the az4 at higher mags, you'll defo need an extension pier, and either the sky tea or similar mount..

but it's a nice set up.. gets very heavy though..

 

I've had some good views of planetary nebs (blue snowball and eskimo) with it, good for splitting stars and bringing out colour too..

All in all a nice scope.. I was quite dismissive of an ED100 because I fell for the starwaves looks and romance of big FL frac.. must say though the lense on the 72mmed I have is great, can only imagine what a 100mmED would be like, but it could have swayed the decision a bit too quickly for my romantic side to have the final say

Don't know if that helps..

Ta

Fozzie

 

Thanks Fozzie. I saw your write up of the scope after I posted up my query. Love the look of your scope on a Skytee mount and pillar!  

[John]

My choice would be an ED100 - either the Skywatcher or Celestron type. Optically they are close to the very best there is (and I mean Takahashi). Plus they are easier to mount than the 102mm F/11's. The latter are nice scopes as well of course and I'm sure you will enjoy it if you have already decided on one

 

[Knighty2112]

9 minutes ago, John said:

My choice would be an ED100 - either the Skywatcher or Celestron type. Optically they are close to the very best there is (and I mean Takahashi). Plus they are easier to mount than the 102mm F/11's. The latter are nice scopes as well of course and I'm sure you will enjoy it if you have already decided on one

 

Thanks John. Sadly those two scopes are nearly double the price too, although I'm sure they are cracking scopes too! 

[FenlandPaul]

You don't give a budget, but if the ED100 is out of your desired range then I'd second Charl on the prowess of the AR127L - a new OTA will set you back £250 and I'm sure used you could go sub £200.  An outstandingly good value and well constructed scope.

Paul

[Stu]

2 minutes ago, Knighty2112 said:

Thanks John. Sadly those two scopes are nearly double the price too, although I'm sure they are cracking scopes too! 

Yes, they are great scopes indeed, but for the budget, I think the quality, fittings and focuser on the Altair unit will be nice, and probably much better than anything you would get on a used ED100

[Knighty2112]

10 minutes ago, FenlandPaul said:

You don't give a budget, but if the ED100 is out of your desired range then I'd second Charl on the prowess of the AR127L - a new OTA will set you back £250 and I'm sure used you could go sub £200.  An outstandingly good value and well constructed scope.

Paul

I did look at the Bressers scopes. What are they like for build quality?

[FenlandPaul]

3 minutes ago, Knighty2112 said:

I did look at the Bressers scopes. What are they like for build quality?

I think they're up there with the newer Skywatcher StarTravel scopes.  Mine is a really solid, well-engineered bit of kit with thoughtful add-ons like the carry-handle integrated into the tube rings and the stainless steel strip fastened to the dovetail plate to prevent the plate from getting gnarly in the saddle.  Small touches, but all add to the value for money in my opinion.  They look nice as well.

That said I've never seen the Starwave in the flesh, so I can't compare to that.

Paul

[Knighty2112]

Just now, FenlandPaul said:

I think they're up there with the newer Skywatcher StarTravel scopes.  Mine is a really solid, well-engineered bit of kit with thoughtful add-ons like the carry-handle integrated into the tube rings and the stainless steel strip fastened to the dovetail plate to prevent the plate from getting gnarly in the saddle.  Small touches, but all add to the value for money in my opinion.  They look nice as well.

That said I've never seen the Starwave in the flesh, so I can't compare to that.

Paul

Thanks. I'll keep them in mind too.  

[John]

21 minutes ago, Knighty2112 said:

Thanks John. Sadly those two scopes are nearly double the price too, although I'm sure they are cracking scopes too! 

I've seen used ED100's for around £250 - £300. I bought one for £300 in mint condition a few years back. No CA visible at all visually and the ED doublets have excellent spherical correction too.

Look at how well the ED100 does against the best here:

http://scopeviews.co.uk/FourInchBG.htm

and here:

http://www.doctordreviews.com/4inch-shootout.html

 

 

[Stu]

I'm sure you are right John....

Depends on budget. If the budget is £200 then that's not £300, is it?

Pretty sure the spherical correction in the f11s will be good too.

[xtreemchaos]

id put the  AR127l a bit above the st range more nearer the evo range, ive had mine for 10 years and never had a problem with it, its still got the old R&P focuser on it and works as it should, many fracs have come and gone and got lost in the loft since then, the only down side is thay weighs a lot, but i have had the ar150 and belive me the 127 is light in comparson.  charl.

[Skyline]

28 minutes ago, John said:

I've seen used ED100's for around £250 - £300. I bought one for £300 in mint condition a few years back. No CA visible at all visually and the ED doublets have excellent spherical correction too.

Look at how well the ED100 does against the best here:

http://scopeviews.co.uk/FourInchBG.htm

and here:

http://www.doctordreviews.com/4inch-shootout.html

 

 

Thanks for the links John, very educational articles.

[Timebandit]

Hello. I see the the AS 102mm

4 hours ago, Knighty2112 said:

Hi all. Considering a new scope, and specifically a new refractor scope specifically for lunar and planetary work. Seen the Altair Starwave F11 102mm achromatic OTA which doesn't break the bank too much. With the longer focul length CA shouldn't be too noticible, and as I have no intention of doing any imaging with it then an APO scope seems a little expensive just for visual use. Anyone have one of these for visual use at all? Any feedback (good/bad) would be welcome.  

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/altair-starwave-102mm-f11-achromat-refractor-telescope-with-2-crayford-focuser.html

Hello. I see the AS 102mm is at the price of £365 . So a bit more in the budget.  So a second hand ed100 would be worth considering as John has picked used up for the £300 mark. Do not discount going down the used scope option. As usually you get a lot more for your money than picking one new at retail. I have the Sw 120 Ed apo and this is a cracking scope IMO. But Stu and John have used a lot more fracs than me so I am not going to try to offer another option. All I can say is that my SW 120 is a very good performer so maybe a SW 100ed Is worth a serious consideration as a used buy. I hope this help☺

[John]

37 minutes ago, Stu said:

I'm sure you are right John....

Depends on budget. If the budget is £200 then that's not £300, is it?

Pretty sure the spherical correction in the f11s will be good too.

I don't recall seeing many of the 102mm F/11's at £200 but you never know

I guess the TAL 100 might get a mention at some point which could be picked up for £100 or thereabouts. Not much more CA than the F/11 achro and the later ones have a decent focuser.

These aren't too shabby either:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/275259-ebay-vixen-102-sp/

Just trying to complete the picture of the "usual suspects" that get a mention in these threads

 

 

[YKSE]

If you're interested in inoviewing in the new scope, you might need take more time considering scope and focuser as a whole, a shorter dual-speeder focuser can easily double your budget, if hacksaw operation on the scope is not intended.

[nightfisher]

Yep about time the TAL got a mention, if you can find a decent 100rs it will give the starwave a proper run for its money, also as John very rightly says a used ED100 is a top buy

[Knighty2112]

Thanks all. Just pressed the button on the order of an Altair 102mm f11 frac from Telescope House. 

Only downside is another cloud penalty coming my way again after this purchase! Yikes!

[nightfisher]

what mount will you be using?

[Stu]

1 hour ago, John said:

I don't recall seeing many of the 102mm F/11's at £200 but you never know

I guess the TAL 100 might get a mention at some point which could be picked up for £100 or thereabouts. Not much more CA than the F/11 achro and the later ones have a decent focuser.

These aren't too shabby either:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/275259-ebay-vixen-102-sp/

Just trying to complete the picture of the "usual suspects" that get a mention in these threads

 

 

I suppose not, but there seems to have been an excellent one sold by Derek just recently at £200.....

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview_archive.php?view=115612

From experience I would say the f11's are better objectives than the TALs I have used, and as said, the quality of standard fit on them is great, very nicely put together.

Yes, the ED100 would be better optically but they are significantly more expensive new and they are also generally more expensive used, even for the older gold tube model.