refractor Takahashi FC-100DC….side-grade or just what’s needed?

[Neutrinosoup]

I’m at a busy stage in my life (A&E job, teenage kids and their exams) where most of stargazing is opportunistic with a WO Megrez 72. I have some wonderful Delos eyepieces & I can’t fault them or my scope. I also have a fairly heavy WO flt 98 + HEQ5 that’s just rarely used due to time pressure. Ideally I want an apo that’s Grab and Go with more aperture for strictly visual use (best of both scopes) that could also later be used for imaging (when time permits). 

I emailed FLO who suggested the Takahashi FC-100DC might be exactly what I’m looking for. It’s obviously almost identical aperture to my WO flt 98 scope, but it’s half the weight & presumably at that light weight is fine on a decent quality Alt Az for G&Go observing?

I’m nervous because it’s obviously a side-grade & I’d be switching from a Triplet to a Doublet….I also note at least 3 variants of the Tak FC-100 & don’t really get what’s the difference between all 3?

Do any of you have experience with this scope? Does it sound like it will fit what I want? (Megrez 72 level portability & weight with much better aperture). What mount do you recommend and lastly are the Takahashi finder scopes worth it?

Apologies for 20 questions!!

Niall

[Franklin]

Wouldn't knock the WO scopes but also wouldn't describe the FC as a side-grade either, the Takahashi is a couple of rungs up the ladder imo. DC, DF, same scope different focuser and DZ F8. I had the DC and it was a perfect telescope, very nice and light with outstanding optics.

[Stu]

Essentially the DC is f7.4, DZ f8 and DL f9. In absolute optical terms, I think the DZ is top, DL virtually as good and the DC a little below.

When I bought my DC, the other two didn’t exist and I had the choice of the DC and DF, the DF having the heavier duty 2” focuser.

I chose the DC, and to be honest even with the current choices I would stick with it mainly as it is the lightest, cheapest and most compact of the three at 2.8kg vs 3.8 or 3.9kg. Whilst I’m sure there is an optical difference at high power in the best conditions, I suspect in real world observing they are all fairly close.

I use mine on a ScopeTech Zero mount and Gitzo tripod and it is a one handed carry out to the garden. It cools very quickly, and is airline portable with focuser and dew shield removed.

Visually I’m sure you would be happy with any of them. Fluorite doublets are ideal for visual and I wouldn’t be surprised if you find it better than the 98.

[RobertI]

Do you already have a decent altaz mount or do you need to buy one? I‘m just wondering if it’s worth trying the FLT98 on a good altaz mount first to see how more useable the setup is, before splashing out on a new premium scope? 

[John]

12 minutes ago, RobertI said:

Do you already have a decent altaz mount or do you need to buy one? I‘m just wondering if it’s worth trying the FLT98 on a good altaz mount first to see how more useable the setup is, before splashing out on a new premium scope? 

That's just what I was going to suggest 👍

[IB20]

The 98 FLT sounds like a fine scope, I’d try and find a lighter set-up for that.

Something like http://www.nohsmount.com/entry6.html with a Gitzo 5533S/LS. Expensive but cheaper than the Tak OTA. 
Don’t get me wrong I love Taks and Tak stuff but your triplet sounds great and has 53 glass, colour control must be excellent? 

 

[Neutrinosoup]

20 minutes ago, RobertI said:

Do you already have a decent altaz mount or do you need to buy one? I‘m just wondering if it’s worth trying the FLT98 on a good altaz mount first to see how more useable the setup is, before splashing out on a new premium scope? 

Just the Vixen Porta (2) which does not handle the WO FLT 98 (5.2kg OTA) very well in my testing - the claims of 20lb payload capacity are questionable. It’s great with my Megrez 72mm scope though. I wanted something that’s grab and go & portable for opportunistic relatively short sessions. 

The Takahashi is HALF that weight. Also, I’ve no experience of how long the Tak doublet  would take to Cooldown. But my 98mm triplet does take noticeable longer than my Megrez doublet…this might be another factor??

[Stu]

5 minutes ago, IB20 said:

Don’t get me wrong I love Taks and Tak stuff but your triplet sounds great and has 53 glass, colour control must be excellent? 

Certainly worth considering. I guess I was coming from the fact that it weighs 4.7kg vs 2.8kg for a DC, and that likely means a heavier duty mount/tripod.

From my own experience, I had a 106mm FPL-53 triplet apo (Astrotech) which I thought was pretty good, but the FC-100DC was better, showed more detail on Jupiter for instance.

[Mr Spock]

3 minutes ago, Neutrinosoup said:

Also, I’ve no experience of how long the Tak doublet  would take to Cooldown.

Mine is stored in the house at around 21-22°. In summer required cooldown is nil; in winter it's about 15 minutes.

[Neutrinosoup]

6 minutes ago, IB20 said:

The 98 FLT sounds like a fine scope, I’d try and find a lighter set-up for that.

Something like http://www.nohsmount.com/entry6.html with a Gitzo 5533S/LS. Expensive but cheaper than the Tak OTA. 
Don’t get me wrong I love Taks and Tak stuff but your triplet sounds great and has 53 glass, colour control must be excellent? 

 

Thanks for this idea, I quite like the longer adjustment handles I got with my Vixen Porta which make it easy to adjust while viewing , can you get similar on this sort of sturdier Alt-AZ?

[Neutrinosoup]

3 minutes ago, Stu said:

Certainly worth considering. I guess I was coming from the fact that it weighs 4.7kg vs 2.8kg for a DC, and that likely means a heavier duty mount/tripod.

From my own experience, I had a 106mm FPL-53 triplet apo (Astrotech) which I thought was pretty good, but the FC-100DC was better, showed more detail on Jupiter for instance.

Plus I’m a short long distance runner who skipped arm day…….

[John]

13 minutes ago, Neutrinosoup said:

Thanks for this idea, I quite like the longer adjustment handles I got with my Vixen Porta which make it easy to adjust while viewing , can you get similar on this sort of sturdier Alt-AZ?

There are a number of sturdier alt-azimuth mounts that have slow motion adjustment controls. The Skytee II and the Sightron to name two of those.

If you decided to go for a Tak FC100 F/7.4 (DF or DC, especially the latter) you might find that the Vixen Porta copes OK with the lighter tube. I used to use a Vixen 102mm F/6.5 on a Porta with some success and that weighs around 3.4kg.

 

[IB20]

8 hours ago, Stu said:

Certainly worth considering. I guess I was coming from the fact that it weighs 4.7kg vs 2.8kg for a DC, and that likely means a heavier duty mount/tripod.

From my own experience, I had a 106mm FPL-53 triplet apo (Astrotech) which I thought was pretty good, but the FC-100DC was better, showed more detail on Jupiter for instance.

Oh don’t get me wrong, I love the image my Tak presents, particularly the colouration of the planets and star colours. When I have compared scopes the quality of the Tak has become apparent.

The OP’s current triplet did sound pretty nice though when I quickly looked it up. Yet if it’s weight that is stopping them using it then getting a 100DC is easily the lightest and best 4” on the market so would recommend. The heavier DFs & DZs not so much, every kg saving helps!

I know when I’m umming and ahhing about taking a scope out due to fatigue or conditions, it’s the lighter 7kg set up that goes out rather than the heavier instruments. 

[Deadlake]

I suspect you set up time is limited for larger scopes due to the HEQ5. I swapped out my Vixen SXP2 due to set up time for visual for an AZ100. 
I can carry out the AZ100 and tripod in one go and alignment is around a couple of minutes for two stars. This makes the size of scope being mounted not really an issue, however I usually use a APO? over a C11 due to cool down times.
This was the biggest time saver for set up at night.

[Franklin]

12 hours ago, Neutrinosoup said:

the claims of 20lb payload capacity are questionable

Vixen rate their Porta mount at 4.5kg which is half that 20lb claim. This misunderstanding has it's roots over the pond when the Vixen distributer, at the time, started selling Porta mount heads but paired with the heavier duty HAL130 and HAL150 tripods. Yes the HAL is a better and sturdier tripod than the light-duty tripod supplied with the Porta but in no way does it magically transform the Porta head into a mount capable of handling double the payload as recommended by Vixen. The Porta, when used with a small scope such as an ED80 is an excellent little mount but it is just a lightweight and portable mount, hence the name "Porta"😁.

Also The Tak FC100-DC is super light and nimble, in fact it is about the same size as some 3"ED scopes. When I had a DC the Porta carried it just fine, though I now have the APZ which is very nice.

A few firms just copy and paste their advertised specs and some of them are giving out false information because of it.

From the Vixen manual for Porta.

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Franklin

[Stu]

I reckon one of the new Sightron alt az mounts would do well with a DC, on one of lighter Berlebach tripods maybe?

[mikeDnight]

On 18/11/2023 at 10:56, Stu said:

I reckon one of the new Sightron alt az mounts would do well with a DC, on one of lighter Berlebach tripods maybe?

I tried the Sightron with my DZ. It's a nice mount that's had a lot of thought put into its design, and it was certainly adequate for carrying the DZ. However, it had one major drawback for me. The altitude arm isn't long enough to allow zenith access if you mount the scope behind the mount, as the azimuth control gets in the way. You can use the Sightron in various configurations, even mounting the scope on the outside of the arm so as to get around the zenith access problem. I'm just not a fan of side mounted scopes and much prefer to be behind the mount, so the Sightron was not for me. Had the altitude arm been a couple of inches longer I'd have liked it much better. 

Some pic's attached:

The Sightron also allows a Takahashi Tube clamp to be directly connected to the mount rather than using the dovetail connection if prefered.

[johnturley]

On 17/11/2023 at 20:13, Neutrinosoup said:

I’m at a busy stage in my life (A&E job, teenage kids and their exams) where most of stargazing is opportunistic with a WO Megrez 72. I have some wonderful Delos eyepieces & I can’t fault them or my scope. I also have a fairly heavy WO flt 98 + HEQ5 that’s just rarely used due to time pressure. Ideally I want an apo that’s Grab and Go with more aperture for strictly visual use (best of both scopes) that could also later be used for imaging (when time permits). 

I emailed FLO who suggested the Takahashi FC-100DC might be exactly what I’m looking for. It’s obviously almost identical aperture to my WO flt 98 scope, but it’s half the weight & presumably at that light weight is fine on a decent quality Alt Az for G&Go observing?

I’m nervous because it’s obviously a side-grade & I’d be switching from a Triplet to a Doublet….I also note at least 3 variants of the Tak FC-100 & don’t really get what’s the difference between all 3?

Do any of you have experience with this scope? Does it sound like it will fit what I want? (Megrez 72 level portability & weight with much better aperture). What mount do you recommend and lastly are the Takahashi finder scopes worth it?

Apologies for 20 questions!!

Niall

Rother Valley Optics currently have the DF on offer at £2,049 for the OTA, or with the clamshell, bracket and 6x30 finder for £2,349, plus during November and December (I think) a free Zygo check.

I decided however to go for the DZ (which isn't on offer apart from the Zygo test), maybe I have wasted quite a bit of money, as some have stated that there is virtually no difference in the performance between them.

John 

John

Edited November 19, 2023 by johnturley

[Elp]

I thought I'd miss slowmo controls but my Tecnosky Cubo handles my Starfield 102 perfectly fine even on a carbon fibre tripod.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Elp

[Stu]

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

I tried the Sightron with my DZ. It's a nice mount that's had a lot of thought put into its design, and it was certainly adequate for carrying the DZ. However, it had one major drawback for me. The altitude arm isn't long enough to allow zenith access if you mount the scope behind the mount, as the azimuth control gets in the way. You can use the Sightron in various configurations, even mounting the scope on the outside of the arm so as to get around the zenith access problem. I'm just not a fan of side mounted scopes and much prefer to be behind the mount, so the Sightron was not for me. Had the altitude arm been a couple of inches longer I'd have liked it much better. 

Some pic's attached:

The Sightron also allows a Takahashi Tube clamp to be directly connected to the mount rather than using the dovetail connection if prefered.

Interesting to know Mike. That’s one difference with the ScopeTech, which has the control ‘pins’ at an angle so you can generally avoid them clashing at the zenith. The limiting factor is more the tripod legs clashing, a short pillar would avoid that.

 

[Jim L]

On 18/11/2023 at 02:56, Stu said:

I reckon one of the new Sightron alt az mounts would do well with a DC, on one of lighter Berlebach tripods maybe?

The FC100DC is an excellent match for the Sightron alt-az mount, though in my case on a Gitzo GT5533LS tripod.

A More Blue dovetail clamp and a couple of spare slow motion cables make using the mount easier.

I can’t quite reach zenith with the way I’ve got the mount set up now, but it’s close enough for my purposes and if I need to reach higher a quick adjustment of the azimuth arm will get me there.

The goal was a portable and lightweight grab-and-go setup I could race sucker holes with and that fit comfortably within my quite small ‘91 Miata. The Tak DF and DZ alternatives to the FC100DC were very tempting, but being significantly heavier they wouldn’t have integrated nearly as seamlessly with the Sightron/Gitzo tripod and mount.

I don’t expect to see a difference through the eyepiece between the DZ and my DC Tak very often, if ever, but the weight difference between them would be noticed every time the scope is used. It’s hard to make a wrong choice with a 4” Tak, but depending on your needs there can be better and less better choices.

[Stu]

37 minutes ago, Jim L said:

The FC100DC is an excellent match for the Sightron alt-az mount, though in my case on a Gitzo GT5533LS tripod.

A More Blue dovetail clamp and a couple of spare slow motion cables make using the mount easier.

I can’t quite reach zenith with the way I’ve got the mount set up now, but it’s close enough for my purposes and if I need to reach higher a quick adjustment of the azimuth arm will get me there.

The goal was a portable and lightweight grab-and-go setup I could race sucker holes with and that fit comfortably within my quite small ‘91 Miata. The Tak DF and DZ alternatives to the FC100DC were very tempting, but being significantly heavier they wouldn’t have integrated nearly as seamlessly with the Sightron/Gitzo tripod and mount.

I don’t expect to see a difference through the eyepiece between the DZ and my DC Tak very often, if ever, but the weight difference between them would be noticed every time the scope is used. It’s hard to make a wrong choice with a 4” Tak, but depending on your needs there can be better and less better choices.

I did suggest the Berlebach, but as you can see, I too use a Gitzo, in my case a GT5542LS. Ideal for a one handed grab and go setup.

[orly_andico]

The W-O tubes are incredibly heavy for their aperture.  I have no experience with the 100mm Taks but my FS-60CB is definitely lightweight.

 

For a mount - why not find an old Vixen SP or GP? it's materially lighter than the HEQ5, has slow motion controls (and in the case of the SP has setting circles) and you can find one really cheap. Either would be pretty decent with a Tak 100mm f/8 or f/9 (I used to have a GP and used it with an Orion 100ED which is like the poor man's FC100).