At what point is an eyepiece too expensive

[Bob tries hard]

At what point is an eyepiece too expensive .

I've been looking in to buy a few eyepiece’s or a hole set.

I own a Nexstar 8se having upgraded the Star diagonal to the 2” click lock  by Baader.

The price difference between them can be extreme due to quality.

But at what point is it beyond the Telescopes limit.

[Pete Presland]

Simply when you can not afford to buy it.

I had around a dozen Televue Plossl's a few years back ranging from 8mm to 40mm. I now own just 4 proper observating eyepieces and an all rounder zoom for Solar imaging (locating). The eyepieces are 35 Panoptic, 22mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos and 8mm Ethos. I would highly recommend all 4, they are expensive, particularly the Ethos. I am sure there are many other eyepices that would do pretty much the same job, these were all purchased 2nd hand at a price i thought i could justify.

That is probably the answer to the question, if there is one, how much can you justify spending? I certainly would not recommend buying a set personally, pick and choose the best ones to suit your scope and interests.

[Louis D]

Generically, it's at about $450 per eyepiece.  I was able to get the ES-92s on sale for closer to $400 a few years ago.

I would never drop $1250 for a TV Apollo 11mm, no matter how fantastic it might be.  Of course, it's a moot point now since they're sold out.

Edit: Just found out that the ES-92's new US list price is $799.99.  It still lists for 479,00 € in Europe.  Guess I won't be getting anymore of them at the new US price should new focal lengths ever be introduced.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Louis D

[Marvin Jenkins]

I have often wondered this very same thing with astro equipment. I think some of the really high end stuff is justified if it makes a difference. Justification gets chucked out the window if money is no object.

If you are on a budget and ep prices make you wince (I do) then I would say buy the best you can afford. The one justification with eps is that they can be a once in a lifetime purchase.

I sometimes think ‘is more important to have an experience like a weekend away somewhere dark, where what you see is a cherished memory that you look back on’ or not affording that trip but having a nice ep in B8 skies.

You have to weigh it all up and decide what is the most important.

I of course keep a pragmatic sensible head on my shoulders about these matters which’s why I am selling my house to fund my hobby!

I would add a lol emoji but it is for real. Perhaps O am not the best person to give advice in this matter😂

Marv

Edited June 16, 2021 by Marvin Jenkins
Typo

[Bob tries hard]

What an interesting reply; 

the idea of a trip to darker pasture and appreciate the sky’s above is in my opinion a fantastic idea which I will definitely do.

Now I just need get the eyepiece and book a trip lol.

[vlaiv]

Eyepiece becomes too expensive expensive for me - if there is eyepiece that offers near or same performance for less money

 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

It's too expensive if I can't afford it.

Also if you're not sure what focal lengths suit the telescope or the objects you want to observe, what type of eyepieces, fields of view, eye relief etc suit, then along with plenty of research, best to experiment with cheaper items first imho. A very expensive eyepiece won't improve your sky quality or observing skill.

 

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

Scopes with short focal ratios, e.g. a f4 or f5 newtonian, will require more exotic eyepieces than one with a long focal ratio like a f10 SCT.  I am something of an eyepiece sceptic - if a Plossl seems to do the job, I am not motivated to order an eyepiece costing hundreds of pounds.

[Marvin Jenkins]

1 hour ago, Bob tries hard said:

What an interesting reply; 

the idea of a trip to darker pasture and appreciate the sky’s above is in my opinion a fantastic idea which I will definitely do.

Now I just need get the eyepiece and book a trip lol.

Absolutely the right thing to do, however do you spend money on eps and postpone the trip? Or go on the trip and wait to buy the eps? 

I would say get the experience now! It will be something in the bag that you can compare to in the future when you have the high end eps.

It is said that at the end of your life you regret the things you didn’t do...... I never heard anyone say they regretted the eps they didn’t own.

Observational astronomy is about ‘that moment’ when it all comes together, and sometimes that is with a budget Plossl, a BST Star guider, a Badder Morpheus or a Teleview.

My first Saturn with a 20quid plos blew my brain out. That effect will probably not not be beaten by high end kit, despite the better resolution. It might come close in revealing more, but that is an extension to observation.

Marv

[DPF]

As a newcomer to all of this, I was bought a telescope as a Christmas present and didn’t buy any new ep’s or equipment until I’d consulted the amazing people on this forum. One thing I did do, is to take myself to a dark area, with the basic setup I’d received as a present.

Just by doing this almost seemed to add more to the quality of the eyepieces and added a new dimension to what I was seeing. It made me appreciate more of what I had been seeing, but now I was beginning to see more - without added expense.

Now, with just a little bit more experience I have invested in some ep’s and taken the advice of other members of this forum. The ep’s I have bought have been a mixture of new and also from those selling equipment on the forum.

Go and find that dark site and enjoy. 

[John]

It's down to the individual to decide what they are prepared to spend I think.

The qualities of eyepieces from budget ones to some of the most expensive, and their respective performance in different scope types and specs are widely discussed on forums such as SGL, sometimes at great length !, so there is plenty of information out there. Trying for yourself, if at all possible, is very important as well - eyepiece preferences do seem to be quite personal.

I guess we all decide whereabouts along the cost vs performance line we are prepared to be.

What is good today is that very good eyepieces are available at a reasonable price (ie: around £50 each). These are good enough to enable most scopes to really show what they can do, when conditions allow.

I've probably spent far to much on eyepieces over the years but I have, and still do, enjoy using them a lot so I tend to think "what the heck "

Eyepieces are not that high up the list of factors (Suiters "wobbly stack") that impact the views we get to be fair:

1      Seeing (not transparency, but the level of atmospheric disturbance which distorts the image moment to moment).

2    Quality of the primary optics.

3     Central obstruction size.

4     Alignment of the optics (collimation).

5     The diagonal being used.

6     The ability of the focuser to deliver critical fine focus.

7       The eyepiece.

8       The skill and fatigue level of the observer and their eyes.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by John

[Saganite]

1 hour ago, Marvin Jenkins said:

 

 

 

Observational astronomy is about ‘that moment’ when it all comes together, and sometimes that is with a budget Plossl, a BST Star guider, a Badder Morpheus or a Teleview. observation.

 

This is absolutely the point !

If the seeing is perfect,a half decent eyepiece will etch the image in your mind forever.  I wish I could remember now, but the most stunningly brilliant image of Jupiter, I have ever seen was through my 5" f15 refractor using, I am fairly sure, a  12.5mm BST 60 Deg eyepiece.

[JeremyS]

Somewhere before you get to the TeleVue Apollo 11

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/tele-vue-apollo-11-special-edition-eyepiece.html

[Saganite]

That certainly gives a lot of scope Jeremy, and you could buy a lot of scope for £1500...

[maw lod qan]

The Svbony set that I started with on my 8" OTA was ridiculously cheap. But on a clear morning at my daughters house in North Florida when I saw Jupiter and Saturn at their best for me, they were money well spent.

If I had an unlimited budget,  I would waste too much money!

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

6 minutes ago, maw lod qan said:

The Svbony set that I started with on my 8" OTA was ridiculously cheap. But on a clear morning at my daughters house in North Florida when I saw Jupiter and Saturn at their best for me, they were money well spent.

If I had an unlimited budget,  I would waste too much money!

A similar experience here. Observing Jupiter through a 130mm reflector and a £14 6.5mm plossl changed my life!

 

[Sunshine]

For me it sort of boils down to trial and error, I could never afford to simply jump in blind and buy a set of expensive eyepieces without having tried the mid grade eyepieces first. If I found i was satisfied with what I had then why spend more? having said that, if I were to spend $300 on a scope, I could not justify a high end set of eyepieces costing several times the price of the scope. One can justify high end eyepieces if they feel their scope can utilize such eyepieces to their fullest, I would look at it like tires for ones car, am I going to install high end tires costing several hundreds each on my 2012 Toyota Corolla? does the car require them? most certainly not!.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Sunshine

[Stu]

36 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

why spend more? having said that, if I were to spend $300 on a scope, I could not justify a high end set of eyepieces costing several times the price of the scope. One can justify high end eyepieces if they feel their scope

can utilize such eyepieces to their fullest, I would look at it like tires for ones car, am I going to install high end tires costing several hundreds each on my 2012 Toyota Corolla? does the car require them? most certainly not!.

Whilst I don’t disagree with the sentiment here, it is also possible to underestimate the capability of low end scopes based on how they perform with their stock eyepieces. Case in point here are the Heritage 130p and 150p scopes. These are supposedly entry level/beginners scopes but stick a decent eyepiece in them and they are surprisingly capable. I’ve split quite enough doubles with my little Heritage scopes; Pi Aquilae and Zeta Herc for instance which I never thought possible in such a basic scope.

[John]

10 minutes ago, Stu said:

Whilst I don’t disagree with the sentiment here, it is also possible to underestimate the capability of low end scopes based on how they perform with their stock eyepieces. Case in point here are the Heritage 130p and 150p scopes. These are supposedly entry level/beginners scopes but stick a decent eyepiece in them and they are surprisingly capable. I’ve split quite enough doubles with my little Heritage scopes; Pi Aquilae and Zeta Herc for instance which I never thought possible in such a basic scope.

I agree with this. You need to step up from the stock EP's to get the best from most scopes. Once you have made that step though, the law of diminishing returns starts in earnest but whether there is a point where you get NO noticable return from an increased investment is an interesting one.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by John

[Stu]

2 minutes ago, John said:

I agree with this. You need to step up from the stock EP's to get the best from most scopes. Once you have made that step though, the law of diminishing returns starts in earnest but whether there is a point where you get NO noticable return from an increased investment is an interesting one.

 

 

As you often say John probably marginal or even unnoticeable differences on axis after a certain Point, but well corrected ultra/hyper widefield eyepieces are where the investment pays off I guess.

It does make you think though, when I use a 24mm Panoptic or Nagler Zoom in my little Heritages, the eyepiece is worth more than the scope!

[Kimboman]

Hi a very interesting topic ,I have been  a fan of astronomy for the past 60 years and I started out with a taco 70mm refractor with the standard eyepieces.

this was the first scope that I viewed Saturn it blew my mind.

The second scope that I bought was a fullerscope 6 inch newtonian with a 25 mm  orthoscopic eyepiece which I still use.

I now have a Celestron 6se a Meade 90etx a 3inch refractor Celestron 15x70 pro binoculars and much more 

I use ex microscope Wild Heerbrugg 10x and 15x eyepieces plus many ex wd ones and I get all the pleasure I need from these

[Sunshine]

56 minutes ago, Stu said:

Whilst I don’t disagree with the sentiment here, it is also possible to underestimate the capability of low end scopes based on how they perform with their stock eyepieces. Case in point here are the Heritage 130p and 150p scopes. These are supposedly entry level/beginners scopes but stick a decent eyepiece in them and they are surprisingly capable. I’ve split quite enough doubles with my little Heritage scopes; Pi Aquilae and Zeta Herc for instance which I never thought possible in such a basic scope.

Yes, very true

[Mr Spock]

There's a also a difference between quality and design, and the two shouldn't be confused. For example, the standard Plössls which come with scopes are often poor quality; a good quality Plössl is a completely different animal and can give close to the best views you can get - try a TV Plössl 

I've used many different eyepieces over the years. Right now the ones I enjoy the most are my orthoscopics. Despite the small eye relief at high powers and the narrow field of view, there's just something 'right' about the views.

With different designs you pay for wider fields of view and more eye relief. So it is a case of you get what you pay for. 

In the end it doesn't matter how much something costs if it meets your needs. So there is no eyepiece too expensive.

[Louis D]

17 hours ago, Sunshine said:

I would look at it like tires for ones car, am I going to install high end tires costing several hundreds each on my 2012 Toyota Corolla? does the car require them? most certainly not!.

Too many people cheap out on their car's tires and end up paying for it later.  I've been rear ended many times by people driving on crappy, high mileage, bargain tires with no traction.  Traffic comes to a sudden halt on the road.  I stop in time thanks to my excellent tires.  However, the car(s) behind me screech and crunch into the back of my car because they bought the cheapest tires possible.  Then I get shoved into the car ahead of me that I hadn't hit in the first place and get blamed by insurance for hitting them.

[jonathan]

The 25mm Celestron Plossl that came with my 8SE is still one of the best eyepieces I own - it's extremely versatile, works very well in the 8SE SCT and every other scope I care to put it in.  Of my other eyepieces I can't say that for their intended purpose any work particularly better than the 25mm does for it's purpose, and I've never felt the need to replace it with a more expensive one; it's definitely the case that several of my eyepieces do not always work as well as they could in the SCT, this is usually due to average seeing conditions making the slow speed of the SCT incompatible with higher eyepiece magnifications.  The SCT is usually very forgiving of 'cheap' eyepieces, especially medium to low magnifications, on most typical nights a Plossl or similar budget eyepiece will do the job, however the Baader Zoom 8 - 24 that I paid a pretty penny for does work very well in it's own right in my 8SE and was definitely worth the money, it doesn't replace my other eyepieces, but it does allow me to carry just one eyepiece and it will work fine at most if not all zoom ranges when my other eyepieces of similar high magnifications do not work at all.  I would not pay more for a zoom eyepiece, definitely worth the money though. 

If you want to get full use of the 2" diagonal then you probably should consider at least one wide angle 2" eyepiece, I have only used one (PanaView 2" 38mm) and in my opinion the views through it are always fantastic, I haven't felt the need to buy anything more expensive for this purpose.

I tend to steer clear of eyepiece sets, I just buy the ones that I need.  The higher magnifications (up to 12mm) probably won't be usable in the 8SE on most typical nights unless you have very steady and clear skies.

Edited June 20, 2021 by jonathan