SCTs are made of gold?

[vlaiv]

What is the rant quota per user?

It's been a while since I brushed up on my CoC familiarity - two times a year? three times a year?

I feel I'm entitled to one, so here it comes ...

What's with SCTs? What could possibly be making them that much more expensive?

Celestron C5 - £569 vs SW Mak127 £265 vs Bresser MC-127 £312

Catadioptric - check

Spherical primary - check

Glass for corrector plate - check

Similar tube size - check

Funny mirror focusing mechanism that causes image shift - check

I don't really see much more craftsmanship involved, if anything - less glass is used for corrector plate (much thinner, isn't it?).

All of that must mean twice the price - there is no other explanation ????

/rant over

But seriously, this has stopped me from recommending this scope as "do it all" budget option for novice astronomers.

Not much available as a mounting option either - well nothing sensible.

[Alien 13]

No idea but a 127 Mak is far superior to an equivalent SCT, things change after that...

Alan

[johninderby]

Small SCT prices make no sense at all. Used to recommend the C6 but price new makes it just too expensive.🤔

Small maks. are a better buy plain and simple. 👍🏻

[vlaiv]

2 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

No idea but a 127 Mak is far superior to an equivalent SCT, things change after that...

Alan

Issue with Mak is that you really can't speed it up significantly. Well, maybe you can but we don't have adequate focal reducer available.

It is also baffled "tight" - illuminated field is not very great.

At 6" people might start to feel boxed in as that is already 1800mm of focal length.

C6 on the other hand can do planets. Maybe not as good as Mak150, but I don't think it will necessarily be much worse.

It can image planets - we know that most of planetary imaging is done on large cats.

One can purchase this:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p11425_Starizona-Night-Owl-2--0-4x-Focal-Reducer---Corrector-for-SC-Telescopes.html

and get F/4 imaging "machine" that can illuminate 16mm field - that means ASI183 and ASI533 on 6" aperture and 600mm FL - not bad.

It is extremely light scope at 3.7Kg - I bet it can be mounted on AzGTI.

If it was reasonably priced - I think it could do well as all around scope for beginners - but it is very expensive (not twice expensive in comparison to Mak150  like 5" counterparts - but still, quite expensive for 6" scope).

 

[Alien 13]

1 minute ago, vlaiv said:

Issue with Mak is that you really can't speed it up significantly. Well, maybe you can but we don't have adequate focal reducer available.

It is also baffled "tight" - illuminated field is not very great.

At 6" people might start to feel boxed in as that is already 1800mm of focal length.

C6 on the other hand can do planets. Maybe not as good as Mak150, but I don't think it will necessarily be much worse.

It can image planets - we know that most of planetary imaging is done on large cats.

One can purchase this:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p11425_Starizona-Night-Owl-2--0-4x-Focal-Reducer---Corrector-for-SC-Telescopes.html

and get F/4 imaging "machine" that can illuminate 16mm field - that means ASI183 and ASI533 on 6" aperture and 600mm FL - not bad.

It is extremely light scope at 3.7Kg - I bet it can be mounted on AzGTI.

If it was reasonably priced - I think it could do well as all around scope for beginners - but it is very expensive (not twice expensive in comparison to Mak150  like 5" counterparts - but still, quite expensive for 6" scope).

 

From memory the 90mm Questar Mak does things a little different, probably the best scope ever made, well to me anyway.

Alan

[johninderby]

Did a head to head visual comparison between a C6 and 150 mak and really couldn’t tell the difference on planets. Contrast was similar. Big advantage of the C6 was it’s weight. 

[vlaiv]

2 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

From memory the 90mm Questar Mak does things a little different, probably the best scope ever made, well to me anyway.

Alan

And cheap too

[Alien 13]

3 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

And cheap too

I know what my Celestron C90 can do so would love to own one of those Questars..

Alan

[John]

They used to say that Celestron wanted to drop the C5's for a long time because there was little or no profit in them - their manufacturing costs were about the same as the C8 but they could not charge as much for them.  They kept them going because NASA used them in the Shuttle and the ISS apparently.

 

 

 

[Ags]

@vlaiv my C6 is indeed mounted on an AZ-GTi which copes reasonably well with the load.  As it only weighs 3.3 kgs (the often quoted 3.7 kgs includes dovetail and eyepiece - a funny way to weigh an OTA) it is well within the load tolerance. There are cheaper 6 inch scopes and I have tried some of them, but they don't come lighter or smaller.

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, johninderby said:

Did a head to head visual comparison between a C6 and 150 mak and really couldn’t tell the difference on planets. Contrast was similar. Big advantage of the C6 was it’s weight. 

Reminds of a review done years ago:

Which is Best - Refractor, Reflector, or Catadioptric?

I wonder how a C6 and 150 Mak would have compared in that shootout.

[John]

4 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Reminds of a review done years ago:

Which is Best - Refractor, Reflector, or Catadioptric?

I wonder how a C6 and 150 Mak would have compared in that shootout.

I used to have an Intes MN61. I owned it alongside the Skywatcher ED120 for quite a few months and compared them often.

Very, very close in performance I felt. Eventually it was the cool down time and the need for a pretty stout mount that led me to part with the MN61.

I could see that a good 6 inch mak-cassegrain might achieve similar performance but I'm not so sure about a 6 inch SCT

 

[ollypenrice]

Maks used to be significantly more expensive than SCTs. The good news with SCTs is that they are freely available on the used market and hold their value badly, making them a good buy.

Olly

[Louis D]

7 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

Maks used to be significantly more expensive than SCTs. The good news with SCTs is that they are freely available on the used market and hold their value badly, making them a good buy.

Olly

I was tempted to pick up a 20 year old 10" Meade LX200 off Craigslist locally for $400 about 5 years ago.  A friend had given it to the guy, and he had no interest in it at all.  I just couldn't figure out where I would store it.

[Alkaid]

Used sct’s are the way to go, they come up often and at good prices.  I love my C8 but could not justify a brand new one, just too expensive. 

[Peter Drew]

I have two 16" SCT's bought 2nd hand, an OTA only for 7K and a complete LX200 version for just over 5K, this one was on a "Gigawedge " that retailed at 1.8K at the time!    😀😀

[andrew s]

It is easy to forget the transformation brought about by the introduction of mass produced SCTs. They opened up astronomy to many with a compact instrument  that could easily be set up and transported.

Regards Andrew 

Edited May 3, 2020 by andrew s

[bomberbaz]

I use a SW127 mak on the AZ GTI Wifi mount. I love it for doubles and globulars.

Not had a chance on planetary yet as the usual culprits are too early in the morning. Really need to get it onto Venus while the time is right though. 

I did own a 8" SCT a good while since, enjoyed using it but I wanted more aperture and less faff in the end.

If I counld only own one scope, it would be a difficult choice between a catadioptric or a dob mounted reflector. However thankfully the swmbo is very forgiving and other than the odd grumble, lets me own both plus a couple of fracs. 👍😊

Steve

[Space Hopper]

I think the C8 Edge is an under rated scope

Good price for its aperture, not silly money like the C9.25 (double the price) or C11 Edge's (triple the price ? 🙄)

Less susceptible to thermals by all accounts with its cooling vents (which can be modded) and having lens elements in its baffle tube (which stops heat going in)

And a good second hand option may be a bit of a bargain.....and it bino-views very well indeed......

If i was to buy another Cat scope, this would probably top the list.

[fozzybear]

I love my good old C5 white body with short rail a bit over the hill, but still a good performer, maybe she will get a bit of an uplift and get flocked but otherwise I'm happy with her.

[Chris]

They 're expensive but blooming compact, light and versatile for their aperture. small Maks are cool too for grab n go Lunar and planetary, but I could never have a small Mak as an only scope, whereas I could cope with a C8 as an only scope. Or even a C6 if I had enough little goodies to get the most out of it! 

The problem is you can get a semi decent 4" f7 ED frac for C8 money and that I'd take over a C8. 

As for price, I have a totally new respect for optics since 'trying' to grind my own mirror. Shelved at the moment, but I've put enough money and time into that little franchise to realise how spoilt we are with today's prices for optics. 

SCT's are only relatively expensive but at the same time cheap!  

 

 

[vlaiv]

11 minutes ago, Lockie said:

As for price, I have a totally new respect for optics since 'trying' to grind my own mirror. Shelved at the moment, but I've put enough money and time into that little franchise to realise how spoilt we are with today's prices for optics. 

SCT's are only relatively expensive but at the same time cheap!  

This gives me completely new perspective on how cheap 4-5" Mak is - unbelievable value.

[Chris]

33 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

This gives me completely new perspective on how cheap 4-5" Mak is - unbelievable value.

Indeed! If you're mainly interested in the Moon, planets, and the odd double star and glob visually, it could be all you need!

Edited May 6, 2020 by Lockie

[RobertI]

Just did some UK/US price comparisons, and interestingly in the US, Maks are more expensive than their SCT equivalents, in the UK the reverse seems to be true.  Not quite sure what conclusions to draw (it's late!). 

• Celestron C8 - £1067 in UK, $999 in US
• SW MAK 180 - £805 in UK, $1200 in US
• Celestron C6 - £649 in UK, $599 in US
• SW MAK 150 - £485 in UK, $750 in US

[johninderby]

Skywatcher scopes are a fair bit cheaper in the UK than the US but the other way round with Celestron.

Edited May 6, 2020 by johninderby