New house - should I build an obsy?

[Snaxmuppet]

I haven't yet moved into our new house but if we do then I have enough space for an obsy. The problem is that the garden is pretty much surrounded by high trees or the house. I have stood in the garden and held up my arms to try to assess how much of the sky I can see and it certainly not less than 55 degrees. I know that even if I had clear lines to the horizon the lowest, say, 25 degrees are pretty much unusable because of atmospherics. So, those of you that have an obsy, what do you think... if it worth me building one on my garden with only visibility above 55 degs azimuth?

BTW I will be DSO imaging most of the time.

[Tinker1947]

If it only saves you setting up every time it has to be worth thinking about, try imagine all the NGC Galaxies you can view that's  going take many years to get.......

[Bizibilder]

It will save you hours!  Apart from setting up there will be no cool-down time either.  If you have a real tree problem you may be able to get away with a simple structure - high walls and a roll off roof system - you won't need to worry about getting a view near the horizons.

[Bubbles82]

Nearly finnnished mine and know that this save ages on set up time and I will be less annoyed when the clouds roll in just as I'm ready to go. Go for it you won't regret it [emoji3]

[xtreemchaos]

why not if it saves you time and its somewhere to keep all your kit, 55 deg is still workable. clear skys.  charl.

[skywatcher58gb]

If I had the opportunity to put an observatory in my garden I would take it with both hands, even with the limitation you have it would be a great advantage. Having travelled to dark sites for many years to have a setup ready and waiting would be a dream, go for it, I don't think you would regret it.

[Scooot]

I suppose one like this is out of the question?

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=observatory+tower&mlpv=0

[JamesF]

And there's always that house with the roll-off roof

I'd echo the comments about set-up time.  Reducing that to a minimum means that the number of opportunities to use your kit is significantly improved.

James

[Snaxmuppet]

LOL!

Funny... but joking aside... you make a valid point... could I build it raised to some extent?

I know that the height restrictions for permitted development is 2.5m but what if I applied for planning permission for a 2 story obsy... telescope on top and warm room below? There are no other properties or houses that would be affected at all as the garden is quite a distance from other properties and wit the trees around the structure wouldn't even be seen by anyone else.

What are the chances of getting planning permission? Would my chances of getting planning permission be improved if I opened up the obsy to the local schools and general community?

I realise no one can say whether I may or may not get planning permission. That depends on local council policies and I will have to take professional advice on that. But does anyone have experience of building a 2-story obsy? Am I completely mad in thinking this might be possible? What are the problems with putting an imaging telescope on a 2nd floor level? Normally the pier is firmly concreted into the ground and isolated for vibration. How would I get it sufficiently vibration free on the 2nd floor of a building?

All questions right now... sorry

[laudropb]

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Vibration would be a real problem

[Scooot]

Don't know about the planning permission but you could still have a tall pier concreted to the floor with a spiral staircase going around it. maybe I'm going mad! Sounds as if it could be getting expensive lol

[Tinker1947]

A dome on raised base with the pier up the centre just 3-4 feet would make a difference, as for planning permission if nobody will see it who will know, my obby can't be seen due to the high hedges ect, neither neighbor knew it existed until  they popped round to the workshop on other business...

[JamesF]

People have posted links in the past to obsys built over multiple storeys and I think at least one SGL member has posted photos of his construction of a two-storey obsy.  I don't think it's a major problem if you have everything tied together properly to prevent vibration.

As to planning permission, I don't think the local council would treat it any differently from any other application to build an outbuilding higher than that allowed by permitted development (a garage with a pitched roof, for example).  Unless your house is in an area where development is restricted or it would impinge on neighbours "enjoyment" of their own properties then I think they'd have a hard time justiftying a refusal for what is in effect a relatively small outbuilding.

If you're the patient type and wanted to make it even harder to refuse you could start by building an observatory within permitted development rights, give it a year and the apply for consent to extend an existing building rather than build from scratch.  This is gaming the system a little perhaps, but unfortunately that seems to be how it works and it happens an awful lot.

James

[MarsG76]

Have you thought of having your observatory enclosure/building lower than the 2.5m restriction but using a collapsable peer. Rise the floor 1.5 - 2 meters off the ground and with the roof open once the peer is extended you're up high, your peer is stable into the ground and your floor is the right height. 

When all closed up you're back to the regulatory 2.5 meters limit...

[Dave_D]

Well, if you don't, then there will be a resounding 'slap across the chops' from us poor suckers who have no chance of a permanent obsy

[happy-kat]

Any existing development may have used up the right to a new development without permission James mentions.

High hedge act means neighbours get a voice to help ensure that a hedge does not exceed 2 metres in height so not always something to rely on a hedge staying very tall and hiding all sorts.

[Snaxmuppet]

All great comments and advice. Thanks.

Good point about the hedges not staying high. In this case part of the problem is tall trees and hedges on the other side of the fence. They are not ones we can trim down. Perhaps we could pursue the owner of the land on the other side to have their trees lopped back but they are mostly trees, not hedges, so it could completely spoil the look. At the moment they are nice-looking, mature trees and if I were not wanting an obsy I would be happy to just leave them as they do give us a feeling of privacy and a country feel.

I did think that a raised pier might work. I'll investigate that.

I like the idea of doing it in stages with a height extension at a later stage

... and yes, you are right... I should do it... but it is not going to be cheap if I do some of the things I think I might want to do. Still, no point in admitting defeat before I have properly investigated it.

[Macavity]

I would heartily recommend a modest observatory. What you want to do inside it (the fitting out etc.) can be a significant additional cost though. The local DIY shop did jokingly ask if I "had shares"! (Idem CPC Farnell, Maplin etc. etc?) Neighbourhood "greenery" does present a ongoing problem in a typical *crowded* UK suburban property. My neighbor "doesn't care" about his garden apparently...

I did site my observatory so that most of the horizons were "fixed" i.e. rooftops etc. But mostly, I have stopped "torturing myself" over additional losses of sky. With a bit of judicious observing planning, if I restrict myself to objects above -20 deg declination, I have now bagged most of the common "lists". From now on, I think I will mostly concentrate on stuff that is "in the clear".

There are a LOT of objects out there - Probably sufficient to keep me going in this lifetime...

P.S. I have a certain sympathy with my neighbour. Clearly his large garden is difficult to manage single handedly. But, he is not hostile. Following the lead of other neighbours, I might just ask / pay to cut his hedges etc. if they get really high! Or just walk in and "chop off a few bits"... He doesn't seem to notice?   

[JB80]

I'm in the same position as you, we move next week and I would love an obsy built somewhere on the property.

I would even consider on the roof if it came to it.

Funds however will be the scupperer of this project so I am resigned to going without now.

[JamesF]

I'm in the same position as you, we move next week and I would love an obsy built somewhere on the property.

I would even consider on the roof if it came to it.

Funds however will be the scupperer of this project so I am resigned to going without now.

Perhaps just start with a pier and permanently-fixed mount that can be covered when not in use?

James

[JB80]

Not a bad idea that, even just a pier would make things a lot easier although as far as the ministry of finance is concerned it would not be a priority. However I have been given permission to spend on a new scope when everything settles down so it would be nice to kill two birds with one stone.

[saac]

Snaxmuppet take a look at the Assign Observatory  - it uses a tall pier for elevation.  Barry (the owner) had a thread on here you should be able to find it but the link takes you to his own web site which gives a detailed account of the build.  It really is a magnificent achievement.  You may also want to take a look over on Cloudy Nights. I trawled through the obsy build threads there a few years ago when I was researching for ideas for my own build.  From what I remember there were quite a few designs which involved casting very tall piers - some even incorporated into the owners house!  I'm still very much bungling around at the moment with my observing but the addition of my simple rolling roof obsy has had the biggest impact on my enjoyment of astronomy. Whether it's for astrophotography or visual the time in use increases significantly.  Having said that, I've always though weather in the UK is a limiting factor with respect how much you can justify to spend on any build/equipment - although I notice you will enjoy some better weather being in Cornwall, you lucky thing!  Good luck with whatever way you decide to go, even if it's a simple build you won't regret it.

http://www.asignobservatoryii.com/observatoryconstruction.htm

Jim

[Snaxmuppet]

saac, many thanks.

I shall take a look.

I am also trying to come to some conclusion how much I am prepared to spend given our weather. OK, I am fortunate... I am in Cornwall and that has to be a benefit... but even Cornwall is not that good!

Everyone is so helpful with suggestions. It is clear I have a lot of investigation and research to do.

One thing is certain tho... I can only be impressed with what many of you have done. We are all amateurs and have limited funds and yet what I have seen here is very impressive. I am sure I can do something... it is only a question of what and how.

[Physopto]

Every area may have problems with security!

It just depends upon how much chance you are willing to take leaving very expensive gear out in the open. Even if we'll insured it can take a long time to settle a claim and then get to replace all that has been stolen. Then there is the re setting up of it all.

In the end it comes down to are you willing to take the chance on loss or take the safer but immediately costly option of building an observatory and then sleep better at night!

This is why I only get out at star parties until I get my observatory built. 3 hours setting up and well over an hour taking down is just not an option for me.

Derek

[Snaxmuppet]

You make a good point about security. The area I will be in is quite a good area from that perspective but word gets around and if it does get known that I have several thousand pounds of kit just sitting in my garden every night I don't think being in a good area for crime will matter a jot. In any case, I am not sure that insurance would pay out if I didn't have adequate security in place. Just having kit in the garden not securely locked is probably not a good idea anywhere.

It takes me about 45 mins to an hour to set up and about 30 mins to pack away so not too bad in summer when I start early evening but in winter, at this time of year for example, I don't get out at all. By the time I have set up it is nearly time to put away! An obsy would make it viable all year and that is why I am so keen to see if I can do something even with my sight restrictions.