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Wide Veil, HaOIIIRGB

ollypenrice

By ollypenrice
in Imaging - Deep Sky

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

Posted
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Bit of a battle and not right in this version. I need a complete rethink. However...

2 panels in the Tak FSQ106/11 Meg. Each panel had 2.5 hours per narrowband filter and 1.5 hours per colour. Tom O'Donoghue kindly sent me a further 5.5 hours Ha from his identical setup.

Cheers,

Olly

Bigger http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Photography/Widefield-images-including/i-drFZBb8/0/X3/HaOIIIRGB_sRGB_WEB-X3.jpg

HaOIIIRGB_sRGB_WEB-L.jpg

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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Looks good Olly. O[iII] eh Olly - you'll be doing full narrowband in false colour palettes before long!

This image should be called the Question Mark Nebula!

I'll never be a narrowband imager. I'm full of admiration for those who do it but natural colour floats my personal boat. It's very difficult, too: the problem here is to get the small stars (natural in NB imaging) plus as much of the NB depth and detail as you can in real colour. By real colour I mean the reference image you have in the pure RGB version.

What's wrong with this image is that the pure NB goes much deeper and also, here, the tightly controlled stars show signs of having been tightly controlled and I don't really like that.

I'm short of a few techniques, in a nutshell.

Olly

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swag72

swag72

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I think this has come out really well - The narrowband of the Veil and the RGB background just works. The detail in the veil is superb and this whole image really does showcase the whole complex very well indeed.

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Gina

Gina

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Excellent - yes! excellent - great detail :)

As for the "Hubble" v "natural colour" debate - I used to be fully in the natural camp but looked over the fence at the colourful Hubble NB images, climbed onto the fence and now I seem to have fallen off on the Hubble side. I love colour - even false colour - and I think the Hubble processing can bring out detail that is difficult to see in natural colour. With this target though there is virtually no SII to add extra information and Ha plus OIII for the DSO plus RGB for the stars is undoutedly the best option. I intend to revisit this one when I get my triple imaging widefiel

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Martin-Devon

Martin-Devon

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It's a fabulous image Olly - the best ofboth worlds with broadband and narrowband integrated together.

Can you relay though how you actually blended the RGB into the narrowband data. Also, was there any Luminence data used or not since I think I recall somewhere that for good star colours it was suggested that it may be best just with RGB?

Martin

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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It's a fabulous image Olly - the best ofboth worlds with broadband and narrowband integrated together.

Can you relay though how you actually blended the RGB into the narrowband data. Also, was there any Luminence data used or not since I think I recall somewhere that for good star colours it was suggested that it may be best just with RGB?

Martin

I always advocate RGB only for the best stars, Martin, both in terms of size and colour. Lum tends to enlarge them and over-cook the cores. There's no luminance here but maybe it would have made life easier, I don't know.

As for how I integrated the NB and RGB - I wish I knew! My normal method just didn't work. I begain by creating 3 images, each an RGB with the NB added in Blend Mode Lighten. Red got the Ha and G and B got the OIII. I then tried stacking these plus the RGB at various opacities, which I could adjust to taste. It didn't work very well but it gave me something, at least! I then applied the RGB as a top layer in Blend Mode Colour to pull the colour back into line with nature, somewhat. I think I then went back to DBE to get things under control.

After this I made a greyscale HaO111O111 to use as a luminance layer, something I normally avoid doing, and applied it iteratively, boosting saturation with each application, applying a blur and then re applying the sharp lum layer.

I think that the problem was the way the NB so totally overwhelmed the RGB. Maybe LRGB would have been easier to work with. Despite reasonable integration time there was very little colour saturation in the RGB, something I don't remember from an earlier Veil image.

All layers were stretched under a star mask which I made slightly differently this time. I copied the linear image onto the mask, slightly stretched it, clipped the black point to remove nebulosity, stretched again and then blurred the mask. Then I converted it to negative. I felt this worked well.

So all in all a messy process and not one I can recommend!!! I was very critical of the image at first, maybe because I wasn't expecting it to come out as it did, but it has grown on me over night.

Olly

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Gina

Gina

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Your star colours look fine to me Olly :) I would be pleased with that result. I was going to suggest the Lab colour technique to increase colour but Idon't think it needs it.

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fwm891

fwm891

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Superb image Olly - like others I'd be more than happy. One comment you make to others is about black clipping - I very much doubt you have but the back ground looks very dark on my monitor, not sure if raising the shadows and mid tone ranges would help...

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opticalpath

opticalpath

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...... all in all a messy process and not one I can recommend!!! I was very critical of the image at first, maybe because I wasn't expecting it to come out as it did, but it has grown on me over night.

After hours and hours of processing and microscopic inspection, I think it's easy to become hyper-critical and focused on tiny flaws ..... whilst what everyone else sees is just a fabulous image!

Adrian

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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Superb image Olly - like others I'd be more than happy. One comment you make to others is about black clipping - I very much doubt you have but the back ground looks very dark on my monitor, not sure if raising the shadows and mid tone ranges would help...

I do indeed bang on about this, I know. Ps is giving me a backgropund value of 23 to 26 which I think is fine but what happens is that SmugMug seems to darken some images. I don't know what's going on here.

Olly

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sloz1664

sloz1664

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I would be over the moon with this Olly, well that's if there's a moon about.

I have spent my last two imaging sessions on the Eastern Veil obtaining Ha,OIII,SII & RGB.

I have tried every permutation you can throw at it and I am still not satisfied. I never like my

images, always feeling that something was missing. I had the same effect with painting and photography,

liking other participants efforts rather than my own.. But if I finished up with your masterpiece I would be more than happy.

Come on then Olly how long have you spent processing this image. Just to put it into perspective.

cheers

Steve

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jetstream

jetstream

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This image is stunning,I know nothing of the nuances of imaging,filters,colours etc.But I know what I like!This picture is one of the few that grabbed my attention,and one of the few that in my opinion has real DEPTH in the image-not flat looking,almost 3D.Excellent.

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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I would be over the moon with this Olly, well that's if there's a moon about.

I have spent my last two imaging sessions on the Eastern Veil obtaining Ha,OIII,SII & RGB.

I have tried every permutation you can throw at it and I am still not satisfied. I never like my

images, always feeling that something was missing. I had the same effect with painting and photography,

liking other participants efforts rather than my own.. But if I finished up with your masterpiece I would be more than happy.

Come on then Olly how long have you spent processing this image. Just to put it into perspective.

cheers

Steve

I processed this in a day, starting at about 11.00 am and getting to this stage by about 6.00 in the evening. Something like that, so probably about five working hours. I've certainly spent longer per square degree than that but I just found I was having to busk this one more than usual. I often process with guests but fortunately this wasn't the case here, which is just as well because they'd have wondered what on earth I was doing!

Olly

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