Mini PC vs ZWO ASIAIR

[deanchapman2705]

6 hours ago, StevieDvd said:

IOS/Android

^ This is a great example, I'm an Apple guy. Yes Apple will make sure only their products will work with their own and will be overpriced (ZWO) but I just like the simplicity and reliability of them. My brother prefers Android as he finds IOS limiting because he is a techie.

So I guess what I've found out is that this is more down to personal preference. Generally, those who are more techie and experienced will probably prefer using a PC whereas for beginners who just want to take pictures with ease and are not too bothered with its limitations (like me) are probably better off with the ASIAIR. That's how I see it although others may see it differently. To be honest, after trying to use NINA myself, I admire those who can use it and hopefully one day, I will get to use it to its full potential.

16 hours ago, Stickey said:

I use an Asiair pro and it's brilliant. It removes any pfaffing about with various pieces of s/w and just works. I'd rather spend my time fighting to get the best image than with the software. Once I'm mechanically set up, I can be polar aligned and bang on target and imaging in 10 mins.

That's currently how long it takes for the PC to start up let alone remote into it! It does have an Intel Celeron to be fair 😂

On 12/12/2022 at 16:36, Lee_P said:

To answer the OP, I'd say that astrophotography is a hobby, and a hobby should be fun. So, if you're not enjoying the mini PC and NINA, maybe it's a sign that you should try an ASIAIR. Buying one second-hand so that you can sell it on for minimal loss if you don't get on with it is a good call.

I think this answers my question really. I currently hate the thought of spending an hour stripping the setup apart to take outside, put back together and let it cool down only to then find another problem stopping me from imaging (especially if I've had a bad day at work). A hobby shouldn't be like that, it should be something I look forward to when I get home and feel like the ASIAIR would help with this.

Edited December 13, 2022 by deanchapman2705

[iantaylor2uk]

If we take a step back, my understanding is that the ASIAIR Pro and its variants are marketed at ZWO users, as an aid to increase productivity since it can be used for polar alignment, auto-focusing and auto-guiding, and you can be up and running to take photos in less than 10 mins or so. This is very attractive to many users that already have ZWO cameras. In addition, you don't need a laptop or PC outside (most users I think will be outside rather than have remote control) and can just use a cheap android tablet.  So the fact that it only works with ZWO equipment is a feature, rather than a problem. 

If users don't want to use ZWO equipment then they can try to reproduce the functions of an ASIAIR Pro with a mini PC and various other bits of software but I would think it would take quite a bit of effort to get it all working flawlessy everynight and it would be a pain to have to update all the different bits of software at different times, as opposed to the AISAIR where the front-end is updated and everything just works. 

I'm speaking as someone who used to use a laptop at the scope for autoguiding and imaging, and the simplicity of the ASIAIR, and the much tidy cabling, has drastically increased the time I can actually take photos, as opposed to "faffing about" getting things working. 

[M40]

I have been following this thread with interest, primarily as my laptop keyboard has partially died meaning I have to cart a keyboard and mouse around, not very practical, so I need to do something. The only AP software I currently use is the AsiStudio for a dabble in EEA with a ZWO camera.

So I am now at decision time, I could buy another laptop and continue as I have been and possibly in the future buy a second small pc and stick it on the mount then learn the associated software etc or alternatively buy a tablet and possibly in the future an Asiair then learn the associated software.

Back to the topic, it has always been my intention to have a go at remote stuff and I can see no reason why the asiair and a tablet is not the logical next step for me at my stage in the game. Just to add, anybody interested in this thread will be approaching it from different levels and abilities and the different opinions have been a very worthwhile read.

[Skyline]

I have a Mini PC with Ubuntu 22.04 running Indi/Kstars/Ekos. Then remotely connect using WIN10 with Kstars.  Much cheaper then Jumping in bed with just ZWO.

[Ratlet]

Not really sure I get the negative vibes in either direction.  I personally run Nina on a mini pc.  I wouldn't say it's been a nightmare and the closest I've come to it having an issue was when I loaded the wrong profile when I changed my lenses and didn't realise astap used the profile for the focal length.  Oh and it is doesn't handle DSLRs very well, but I'm not sure if the issue is solely Nina or a combination of it and using a dummy battery.

I think the biggest barrier with Nina is that it looks a lot more complicated than it actually is.  It can just do a lot so it needs to display a lot. The second biggest is the documentation which isn't so much lacking, but rather lacking a quick start guide.

As to zwo, I'd absolutely consider using one, but I've got Altair for my imaging camera.  It's an elegant solution, especially getting started, that much is obvious.

But Nina isn't some overly complicated nightmare.

Going to the original question, the previous owner has supplied it with Nina so there is a good chance most of the stuff is already configured.  I'd have a look at patriot astro or cuiv the lazy geek.  They have some very good guides.

I highly recommend getting to grips with it indoors.  Just plug everything in and play about.  Obviously you can't test some things, but you can get familiar with a lot indoors.

[Adam J]

I think that another thing that has not been fully covered is storage, I use a 1gb drive on my mini PC and can store multiple targets worth of data and move it over the network to my laptop. As far as I am aware that is simply not possible with ASI AIR and you are stuck with just a SD card that you need to physically move between the imaging system and your PC. 

Adam

[iantaylor2uk]

I think most people that use the ASIAIR use the USB 3.0 64 Gb thumb drive which comes with it for storage rather than use the SD card and so transferring images over to a PC for processing is straightforward.

[Ouroboros]

Yes , that’s what I do. I did once save to the internal ASIair memory by mistake. It was easy enough to transfer the data to my MacBook. I can’t recall whether I did that over wire or wirelessly. Both are possible. It wasn’t difficult as I recall. Once I’d looked at the instructions. 

[powerlord]

Well, you can do that. But it also provides the drives as samba shares on the network as you'd expect,  so you can access them over the network fine if you wish. I use faster 256gb USB3 sticks  (Samsung bar plus) which get nearly 400MB/s.

[Ouroboros]

Can you attach a USB powered external hard drive to an ASIair?  Not that I want/need to. Just wondering. 

[scotty38]

2 hours ago, Ratlet said:

 

 The second biggest is the documentation which isn't so much lacking, but rather lacking a quick start guide.

 

Like this?

https://nighttime-imaging.eu/docs/master/site/quickstart/uioverview/

[bomberbaz]

22 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Can you attach a USB powered external hard drive to an ASIair?  Not that I want/need to. Just wondering. 

Not that I am aware, that said I have never tried it.

FWIW, I transfer my data from the ASI AIR via wireless, takes a while but simple enough to do and no messing with cards or sticks.

[Adreneline]

This has been a really interesting and at times exciting thread to read so I thought I would add my two-penny-worth of real experience.

In 2016 I started with a NUC and SGPro/BYEoS - NUC inside, OTA outside with long'ish cables - and an Atik CCD camera.

Then I moved to the NUC to the mount - much better arrangement in terms of cables but not so comfortable to use.

The I moved the NUC back in doors and used very long cables - not good at all - a bad move. At the same time SGPro got updated and became for me more of a pain than a gain. (Sold the Atik(s) and bought my first ZWO cmos camera).

Then I put the NUC back at the mount and bought a cheap reconditioned laptop and used Windows Remote - that worked pretty well most of the time. It is a fact that Windows can be a bit tricky at times - full of surprises when they are least needed.

Then I bought a RPi3B+ and installed Ekos/Kstars and all that other stuff. I tried and tried and tried again - and every time/night there was a problem which ranged from trivial to show-stopping, like driving the mount into the tripod.

Then I bought an ASIair Original - very good.

Then I bought an ASIair Pro - very, very good. Wifi a bit disappointing but there are work-arounds - like a cable for me.

Then I bought a MeLE Mini-PC - see below.

Then I bought an ASIair Plus - exactly what I expected.

Guess what, I hardly ever use an PC and when I do it's to get my fix of using BYEoS - which I love, love, love!

Based on a recommendation I bought the MeLE and installed NINA - so much to like and so much to frustrate - too many hours lost to solving problems rather than imaging. All the problems may well have been of my own making (like trying that Green Swamp thing - what was I thinking?!).

For me, in the evening of my life, I absolutely love the ASIair. 99% of the time it is stressless, reliable and as easy as the proverbial 1, 2, 3. I can be fully set up and imaging in 15 minutes. Platesolving 100% reliable. Meridian flip - go to bed and let it happen. Setting up guiding a breeze. PA a bit fiddly (maybe my mount)  but works just fine. Storage - okay it's not good on the Original, loads better on the Pro and 'problem solved' on the Plus.

I have sold my soul to ZWO and I am in no way ashamed of that fact, and neither should anyone else be - ashamed of me  

As for the argument that the ASIair can only be used with ZWO products (excluding mounts and two dslr brands), so what?

If you haven't tried it don't knock it. I haven't tried so many things in my life and I 'knock' myself for not having done so - except wingsuit gliding.

Do whatever works for you and don't forget to enjoy! It's a hobby.

 

[nicoscy]

Interesting discussion and I will post from the perspective of EEVA use.

Previously, I had a laptop running with SharpCap, ASPS, CdC, Celestron Nexstar software controller and ASCOM, connected to a Celestron AVX and a 6" RC. Yes, there was some faffing around, but once the system was configured, it worked flawlessly and I would do a quick PA and happily zip through DSO. The initial setup was an issue - how to get every piece of software and hardware to talk to each other, but once that was done, all I did was to keep a backup image and ensure that after each windows updates, things didn't go south.

Fast forward to today. I switched to the ASIAir Pro (I was already in the ZWO ecosystem so not a real issue) after considering the use of a NUC or similar mini PC, because the feature set I needed (PA, guiding, Go To, Platesolving, Electronic focusing) was there and it all worked on plug and play - zero configuration needed. Also cut down on an additional power supply in the field to power up the laptop. I have been using the ASIAir Pro since it came out and the feature set keeps getting richer with every update. 

Would I have more flexibility with a win based option? Sure, but I don't need it. Do I want to do EAA with SharpCap? I would like some of the features in SharpCap which are not present in ASIAir, but I can live without them.  Would I consider going back to a win based solution? For sure, if SharpCap had a killer feature I couldn't live with. But then again ZWO is baking into ASIAir plenty of features from its competitors and they are optimizing their software and hardware integration, making it easier for users.

To cut a long story short, it's ease of use with about 90% of the feature set Vs mostly unlimited flexibility but harder to configure and maintain. Choose your poison, there is no right or wrong and the cost of testing both methods is low, as you already have the mini PC and trying the ASIAir and then selling it if not suitable for you, you can always sell it and lose just a bit of money, for - let's call it - the cost of rental and trying it out.

Just my 2c...

[bomberbaz]

Transferring data guide from ZWO site. I use method 3, it isn't the quickest but it avoids data corruption which I have had in the past from dickie memory sticks.

[ASIAIR GUIDE] How to transfer images from ASIAIR (UPDATED) – ZWO ASI (astronomy-imaging-camera.com)

[AndyThilo]

On 13/12/2022 at 16:33, Adam J said:

I think that another thing that has not been fully covered is storage, I use a 1gb drive on my mini PC and can store multiple targets worth of data and move it over the network to my laptop. As far as I am aware that is simply not possible with ASI AIR and you are stuck with just a SD card that you need to physically move between the imaging system and your PC. 

Adam

You can move files in real time over the network. Just need to setup a Samba network path on your PC and run file sync software. 

[StevieDvd]

With the Asiair Plus  & Mini you can also use the USB C port which allows another computer to treat them like a USB drive.

[DaveS]

I send the data from my mini PCs to the big NAS in the office via ethernet. I could use WiFi, but ethernet is more solid.

[deanchapman2705]

Hi all,

So something may have arrived...  

However, I have come across a problem... I should probably create another topic but I'm guessing that I'm being stupid and missing something very obvious as I can't see anyone else having this problem so thought I'd just put this here.

Everything powers on fine, WIFI on the ASIAIR works fine and my phone connects perfectly. The mount is connected and I can control the mount fine and the ASI120mm mini connects and I can loop exposures, BUT...

The ASIAIR Plus does not pick up on the main cam (ASI533MC-Pro). It did with the mini PC using NINA and used to be able to loop exposures but not the ASIAIR. 

It only picks up on the 120 mini. I can see the 533 powers on as the red light comes on and when I plug the USB cable in, the fan starts spinning.

I have tried:

- using different USB 3.0 cables from the ASIAIR to the 533 (including the one that it comes with)

- unplugging the USB cable multiple times whilst all powered on

- having the 533 USB unplugged from the ASIAIR when powering on the ASIAIR and then plugging it in

- turned on the power output in the app that the 533 is plugged into and changed the dropdown from "other" to "camera"

but nothing seems to work.

I've drawn a diagram to show the wiring that I have done with both how it was with the mini PC and the ASIAIR Plus so hopefully someone can spot if I am doing something wrong (currently not using the EAF). The only real difference is that I am no longer using the "power splitter" (not sure of its actual name) as the ASIAIR has its own power outputs.

PS. I can already hear those who said to stick with the mini PC laughing 😂

[powerlord]

it might have connected it as a guide camera ?

simplify things first - just plug 533 alone into asiair and see if it detects it. remember and use the a usb3 port.

make sure asiair app and asiair are up to date.

reboot asiair.

 

[deanchapman2705]

11 minutes ago, powerlord said:

it might have connected it as a guide camera ?

simplify things first - just plug 533 alone into asiair and see if it detects it. remember and use the a usb3 port.

make sure asiair app and asiair are up to date.

reboot asiair.

 

Yes I did try that as well, only the 533 and then it just detects nothing. Also tried plugging the 120 mini into the usb port that the 533 was in and it picks up on the 120 fine so not the port. The 120 is in the usb 2.0 port and the 533 is in the 3.0 port.

The app did an update as soon as it first started so it is currently on the latest firmware - 2.0 (10.46).

[Ratlet]

Check the camera still works:

Connect to a pc using a separate 12v power supply.

Connect to the asiair using a separate power supply.

Its possible that the power splitter you were using is a bit fancier than the one with asiair.  Might just need to put the powersplitter back in the circuit.

[Ouroboros]

The only time I ever had this sort of problem was when not providing enough power to the ASIair. You might check what volts the ASIair measures in the app. 

[CCD-Freak]

I am the "Black Sheep" around here.  I use an HP mini PC and Remote Desktop to control it via WiFi or Ethernet.

Cameras   ASI2600MCp and ASI533MMp

Guide Cameras  ASI290MM or ASI178MM

HP Mini PC

i7 processor at 2.8GHz

16GB RAM

1TB SSD

6 USB ports

Imaging Software Astroart8  for Camera control, telescope control with fast plate solving that does not require an internet connection, EAF and EFW control and auto-guiding.  AA8 can also talk to PHD guiding.

I use a 128GB Flash Drive for "sneaker-net" to move image data to my main PC for processing.  

I also mount the mini PC on the pier instead of up on the optical tube.  I don't like the clutter and the additional wind load.  It is easier to protect the electronics from moisture when conditions are dewy.

My $.02

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by CCD-Freak

[deanchapman2705]

4 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

The only time I ever had this sort of problem was when not providing enough power to the ASIair. You might check what volts the ASIair measures in the app. 

The app said 12v was going to the camera

5 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

Check the camera still works:

Connect to a pc using a separate 12v power supply.

Connect to the asiair using a separate power supply.

Its possible that the power splitter you were using is a bit fancier than the one with asiair.  Might just need to put the powersplitter back in the circuit.

Connected just the 533 to my PC and comes up in device manager. Also can loop exposures in PHD2.

plugging the power directly from the wall to the 533 (not through the mount) doesn't work.

Just tried using the power splitter. So power from the wall to the mount -> from the mount to the splitter -> then from the splitter to the 533 and asiair (separately) and still nothing...

I have a feeling this might not be a simple fix then. Looks like the asiair might be at fault?