Mini PC vs ZWO ASIAIR

[deanchapman2705]

Hi all,

I bought a second hand telescope setup (as pictured below) over a month ago as an upgrade from my portable star tracker setup. The entire setup is controlled via a Beelink mini PC which is attached to the back of the OTA:

    

I have always wanted to upgrade to something just like this but have feared how complicated it would be to use compared to my straightforward start tracker setup. The fact this had a mini PC and an autofocuser was a huge selling point for me, not having to sit outside in the cold whilst trying to figure out how to use it.

The previous owner has set it up to use NINA which I have heard great things about although I am struggling to understand how to use it all. Everything connects perfectly, I can control the mount and loop exposures of the 533MC but everything else has been very confusing. I've wasted many clear nights trying to get the focuser to work and also it's backlash compensation, guiding with NINA through PHD2 and have no idea where to start for plate solving/polar alignment. Videos on YouTube have somehow made me even more confused and I'm starting to hate this thing! 😂

I have always liked the idea of having an ASIAIR with it's simplicity, especially for someone like me who has little experience in this hobby, so I'm wondering whether or not I should swap my mini PC for the ASIAIR Plus/Mini. I have a ZWO camera and guide camera but I am aware that I would also need to swap the focuser for ZWO's EAF in order to work with the ASIAIR which I am happy with.

So my question is... Should I swap the Beelink PC for an ASIAIR or would it be a massive downgrade... or upgrade even? I'm guessing having a windows PC is more powerful than a Raspberry Pi in terms of what it can do (not sure what though) but I feel like the ASIAIR is the better option for me with its simplicity. What do you guys think I should do? Has anyone had experience of NINA and ASIAIR and prefer one to the other?

Setup:

TS-Photon 6" F5

iOptron CEM26

ZWO ASI533MC Pro

ZWO ASI120MM Mini (guide)

Baader Steeltrack Diamond focuser - Deep Sky Dad auto focuser

Beelink Mini PC

 

Thanks and clear skies,

Dean

[Elp]

As it's already setup for it, I would stick to it as it is. An Asiair is easier but you have to learn the same principles anyway, you just have to find where in Nina each thing is.

[Ouroboros]

Just what I was going to say. If it’s working, don’t fix it. 

[Dinglem]

Can I say I have an ASIAir and a CEM26 as a portable setup and the ASIAir doesn't boot with the mount plugged in. I have to power on the ASIAir then plug the mount in once it's connected to my Galaxy pad. Once connected everything works ok, now they've resolved the issues with WiFi connections. I personally would stick with the PC and remote desktop into it, that's how I control my main setup.

[CedricTheBrave]

get on the NINA discord and just ask questions etc they are very helpful

[Ratlet]

Cuiv the lazy geek and patriot astro on YouTube are Nina gurus.  If you want to learn to Nina then go hit them up.  They're pretty comprehensive.  Between them I managed to configure Nina from scratch. 

You can do a lot of playing about with Nina offline to figure out where things are and how to set up.  I played with the framing assistant and simple image sequencer like that before my first session.

[raadoo]

Right, guess I'll play the outlier, then.

By the looks of it, a lot of things in this astrophotography business are new to you, so I'd suggest swapping the Mini PC for an ASIAir Mini (hold that thought*) as a stepping stone while you get familiar with all the terminology, quirks and, overall, your setup. I believe the most important thing to actually driving you forward in imaging the night sky is, well, to actually produce an image or two. The sooner you can produce an image, the less likely you are to abandon the practice altogether. For all their faults, ZWO have actually put together a decently intuitive interface in the ASIAir. There's not much in it to trip you over, barring the social features they added in the latest firmware. It's a fairly straightforward path of Focus > PA > GoTo > Guide > Autorun that can get you looking at subs coming in within about 15-20min.

NINA is very powerful, supports a myriad of devices, can automate everything and their grandma, you can enhance it even further with plugins and it's open source, to boot! There's two things I'd argue that NINA does not do well: 1) have a progressive, easy to follow, beginner astronomer's guide and 2) an interface that most people, but especially newcomers, find intuitive and easy.1

* I'm specifically suggesting the Mini version of the ASIAir as it's the least expensive way to get the Air experience, at £228. Once you feel comfortable to use the Mini PC as the permanent brain of the whole operation, the ASIAir will, effectively, become either a backup or, more likely, a sparkly red paperweight. Or, if you end up like us lot, use it as an excuse to get another telescope.

1. I'm actually working on contributing to NINA trying to address these very two features; if everything goes well these two points may become soon-to-be-forgotten history.

[Elp]

6 hours ago, Dinglem said:

ASIAir doesn't boot with the mount plugged in.

Odd, my gem28 boots up fine with the asiair, would have thought the two mounts are similar.

I'd support @raadoos comment, the asiair is the easiest thing to use from the off and I use them. But, in this instance the OP already has everything, try and get that to work first. Maybe take the EAF out of the equation, get the cameras previewing and taking images, get autoguiding calibration working and polar alignment, then look at setting up sequences/plans. Then introduce the EAF back in. Keep things manual where possible to simplify everything to avoid any confusion. Use a methodological workflow and practice setup during the daylight/non shooting hours. AP requires a certain zen like train of thought when setting up, once you've done it a few times you do it on autopilot. It takes practice.

[deanchapman2705]

Thanks all, this is very helpful!

I agree with you guys that I should keep on going with NINA as it's already set up to use it. It does seem like a very powerful tool although like @raadoo said...

On 06/12/2022 at 23:53, raadoo said:

There's two things I'd argue that NINA does not do well: 1) have a progressive, easy to follow, beginner astronomer's guide and 2) an interface that most people, but especially newcomers, find intuitive and easy

and one of my annoying traits is I tend to give up very quickly when things start to go wrong so this is my worst nightmare. That's why the ASIAIR is very appealing to me with how straightforward and automated it is. 

On 06/12/2022 at 18:02, CedricTheBrave said:

get on the NINA discord and just ask questions etc they are very helpful

That's a great idea. Like I said, I'll stick with NINA for a few more nights so will try this out.

On 07/12/2022 at 00:14, Elp said:

Maybe take the EAF out of the equation, get the cameras previewing and taking images, get autoguiding calibration working and polar alignment, then look at setting up sequences/plans. Then introduce the EAF back in. Keep things manual where possible to simplify everything to avoid any confusion.

This is great, I do feel like ripping everything off and just doing it all manually like with my star tracker setup sometimes! 😂 But like you said, I'll ignore the EAF and maybe even guiding for now and gradually bring them back into the workflow.

On 07/12/2022 at 00:14, Elp said:

Use a methodological workflow and practice setup during the daylight/non shooting hours

I know this would help a lot but I have a 2hr commute to London during the week meaning when I get back, I usually start around 9pm which I think is why there's always a time pressure to start imaging ASAP.

On 06/12/2022 at 23:53, raadoo said:

It's a fairly straightforward path of Focus > PA > GoTo > Guide > Autorun that can get you looking at subs coming in within about 15-20min.

Funnily enough, I recently joined my local astronomy club and two others who use an ASIAIR said exactly the same thing - also a benefit for what I said above. 

Thanks,

Dean

[Adam J]

On 06/12/2022 at 17:34, deanchapman2705 said:

Hi all,

I bought a second hand telescope setup (as pictured below) over a month ago as an upgrade from my portable star tracker setup. The entire setup is controlled via a Beelink mini PC which is attached to the back of the OTA:

    

I have always wanted to upgrade to something just like this but have feared how complicated it would be to use compared to my straightforward start tracker setup. The fact this had a mini PC and an autofocuser was a huge selling point for me, not having to sit outside in the cold whilst trying to figure out how to use it.

The previous owner has set it up to use NINA which I have heard great things about although I am struggling to understand how to use it all. Everything connects perfectly, I can control the mount and loop exposures of the 533MC but everything else has been very confusing. I've wasted many clear nights trying to get the focuser to work and also it's backlash compensation, guiding with NINA through PHD2 and have no idea where to start for plate solving/polar alignment. Videos on YouTube have somehow made me even more confused and I'm starting to hate this thing! 😂

I have always liked the idea of having an ASIAIR with it's simplicity, especially for someone like me who has little experience in this hobby, so I'm wondering whether or not I should swap my mini PC for the ASIAIR Plus/Mini. I have a ZWO camera and guide camera but I am aware that I would also need to swap the focuser for ZWO's EAF in order to work with the ASIAIR which I am happy with.

So my question is... Should I swap the Beelink PC for an ASIAIR or would it be a massive downgrade... or upgrade even? I'm guessing having a windows PC is more powerful than a Raspberry Pi in terms of what it can do (not sure what though) but I feel like the ASIAIR is the better option for me with its simplicity. What do you guys think I should do? Has anyone had experience of NINA and ASIAIR and prefer one to the other?

Setup:

TS-Photon 6" F5

iOptron CEM26

ZWO ASI533MC Pro

ZWO ASI120MM Mini (guide)

Baader Steeltrack Diamond focuser - Deep Sky Dad auto focuser

Beelink Mini PC

 

Thanks and clear skies,

Dean

Your suffering from a classic case of buying everything at once and then not knowing how to work it. Most people incrementally add equipment and hence complexity buying it little by little. 

NINA is better, ASI Air easier but it's limitations may bug you as you get more experienced. Also with ASI air your locked into ZWO kit and that's really annoying and limiting in my opinion. You would need to buy a ZWO focuser too for that reason. 

My advice is stick to Nina and solve one issue at a time. 

Adam

Edited December 8, 2022 by Adam J

[deanchapman2705]

2 hours ago, Adam J said:

Your suffering from a classic case of buying everything at once and then not knowing how to work it. Most people incrementally add equipment and hence complexity buying it little by little. 

NINA is better, ASI Air easier but it's limitations may bug you as you get more experienced. Also with ASI air your locked into ZWO kit and that's really annoying and limiting in my opinion. You would need to buy a ZWO focuser too for that reason. 

My advice is stick to Nina and solve one issue at a time. 

Adam

I know exactly what you mean although, to be fair, the only difference from this compared to my other setup is having an EAF and using NINA (and a goto mount I guess, although I've had experience with then in the past so got the hang of it pretty quickly).

I think if I were to go for the ASIAIR, I would probably just keep the PC as well, as I don't think it would be worth selling. That way, in the future I could change back to NINA if the ASIAIR does become limiting or if I decide to get a QHY camera.

As discussed, I would need to get the ZWO EAF as well so in total it would cost £438 with the cheaper ASIAIR Mini. Not great but I think it would be worth it. I saved a LOT of money buying this setup second hand and if I like the ASIAIR loads more than NINA, then I could even sell the PC to help pay for it.

Like I said though, I'll give NINA a few more attempts without the EAF and guiding and will see how it goes.

[Adam J]

20 minutes ago, deanchapman2705 said:

I know exactly what you mean although, to be fair, the only difference from this compared to my other setup is having an EAF and using NINA (and a goto mount I guess, although I've had experience with then in the past so got the hang of it pretty quickly).

I think if I were to go for the ASIAIR, I would probably just keep the PC as well, as I don't think it would be worth selling. That way, in the future I could change back to NINA if the ASIAIR does become limiting or if I decide to get a QHY camera.

As discussed, I would need to get the ZWO EAF as well so in total it would cost £438 with the cheaper ASIAIR Mini. Not great but I think it would be worth it. I saved a LOT of money buying this setup second hand and if I like the ASIAIR loads more than NINA, then I could even sell the PC to help pay for it.

Like I said though, I'll give NINA a few more attempts without the EAF and guiding and will see how it goes.

Bite the bullet and work through the issues in Nina, when I changed from APT to Nina it was not plain sailing but it was worth the effort. 

 

[scotty38]

Just to add one more voice to this - Stick with NINA! 😀

[Len1257]

Another vote for NINA. Just work through your issues one at a time. Use the simulator functions to get familiar with the options before wasting imaging time. Never ever had an issue with NINA , it just works. Ensure you set the working hours on the PC to suite your imaging time and adjust the power scheme and update policies to prevent heartache in the night!

Tying yourself to ZWO products would be very shortsighted especially with the cheaper cameras now coming from China. I do use ZWO components and they work fine but I do see the advantage of not being limited to just one make......

[The Admiral]

Don't think that the ASIAir will be imaging straight from the get-go, like all new devices it does take a little while to become familiar with, and as there is no feature to use 'off-line', you end up wasting imaging time just finding out where things are and getting it working as you want. So then you have to check out video 'how-tos', and find that they relate to earlier versions and the screen layouts don't quite match what you have. Sound familiar?  But may be that's just me being slow 😉. I've not tried NINA, but what I'm really saying is, the grass on the other side is not always bright green. I believe NINA allows you to 'play' off-line, so take advantage of that, perhaps during your long commutes.

Ian

[Tomatobro]

Massive downgrade......stick with the PC.

[Elp]

On 09/12/2022 at 09:22, The Admiral said:

you end up wasting imaging time just finding out where things are

This is more so with pc software. The asiair is one of the easiest things I've ever used and I didn't need to consult a how to for it unlike for my astroberry with it's pc like setup. You can also use it offline, you just won't have any stars to look at which you don't need to to find out how it works. I've however suggested stick to the current setup as it's already there and done.

[AndyThilo]

I used to use a PC stick, NINA, PHD2 etc.., but now have an ASI Air plus and have to say, it's pretty brilliant and cheaper than a MiniPC/Powerbox/USB Hub combo. Unless you need to fine tune settings to the nth degree, the AA+ is vastly simpler than anything else. Platesolving is quicker than NINA, AF is quicker, PA is accurate and new all star PA means you don't need to see Polaris. There are few niggles I have with it such as how it deals with flats/dark flats but overall, I'd never go back. 

[DaveS]

I would never tie myself in to the ASIAir and the ZWO ecosystem. It might be superficially simple but you have no options going forward. Looking at my cameras, I have two ZWO cameras, plus a QHY 268M, a SX Trius 694 Mono, and my current main camera, a Moravian G3 16200.

I also have Prima Luce Labs Sesto Senso focus controllers.

I use mini PCs with just the necessary software installed.

[AndyThilo]

You're right, it does tie you to ZWO, but other than a rotator (which may be coming), it has everything. 

[Elp]

You can even stack now on the unit via its latest update, useful for checking out whether your flats are working whilst outside in the field. Mosaics natively are also supported which is useful as it assesses your actual fov (not a theoretical one with an online calculator system).

They just need to improve the planetary capture with more precise control over exposure controls, have a more comprehensive stellarium and I'd say it'll be close to perfect.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Elp

[The Admiral]

3 hours ago, Elp said:

You can also use it offline

Hmm, how do you do that then? I find that without an ASIAir or mount around, the app stops at the point where you need to connect. No ASIAir, no connection. So you can't even see the various screens/pages available to have a play with. Or am I missing something?

Ian

[Elp]

35 minutes ago, The Admiral said:

Hmm, how do you do that then? I find that without an ASIAir or mount around, the app stops at the point where you need to connect. No ASIAir, no connection. So you can't even see the various screens/pages available to have a play with. Or am I missing something?

Ian

Obviously have it all connected up, otherwise how do you know it's driving all your hardware and it's all working?

[scotty38]

7 hours ago, AndyThilo said:

 Platesolving is quicker than NINA,

Just nit-picking but NINA doesn't platesolve, it passes that to external tools. If you configure it to use ASTAP with its locally installed databases then plate solving is very quick.

[The Admiral]

15 hours ago, Elp said:

Obviously have it all connected up, otherwise how do you know it's driving all your hardware and it's all working?

That's not what I'd call "offline". It's not about checking the system works, just familiarisation.

Ian