Nagler 31 if anyone’s looking …

[johninderby]

From 365astronomy.

[globular]

On the face of it both US and UK seem to use similar 65% of new when setting used prices.

Some people then dig a bit deeper and notice that one uses pre tax and the other post tax prices.
And you then see that US is something like 61% post tax price and UK is 65%.
Or US is 65% base price and UK is 78%.

Which ever measure you choose to use (or are adamant is correct one to use) it’s clear that UK used prices are closer to the new price than in the US.
(Indeed 70% of post tax new price is more common than 65% at the moment in the UK; which is 84% of base price.  So it is either 61% US vs 70% UK or 65% US vs 84% UK depending on your view of taxes).

This difference is nothing to do with VAT though; it is due to lower availability of new astronomy kit in the UK compared to the US; which leads to higher demand of used goods; and hence higher used prices.

Sales tax = red herring.
Supply differences = real reason

 

[globular]

19 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

That still makes it hard to understand the £810 price in the UK.

810 is the ethos 21 not the nagler 31.  The Nagler is about what you calculated in the UK.

[johninderby]

You should read some of the horror stories about the lack of availability of SW and other Chinese sourced kit in the US at the moment.

[globular]

Indeed. And demand will either switch to non chinese goods or used prices in US will rise to something more like the UK.

[Louis D]

21 hours ago, CraigT82 said:

Nobody takes the vat off the new purchase price when selling used stuff here. The new price of the ep is £810 and that's that, no avoiding the vat.  The used price is £600 and that is £210 saving on new. Plain and simple. 

 

9 hours ago, Stardaze said:

@Mr niallhas it spot on, because it’s included into everything, we consider the cost as being the price, with everything built in at the time of sale. 

 

11 hours ago, chrispj said:

Yes, the only qualification to that is that no-one in the UK would consider it to be a £100 item because it would be advertised everywhere inclusive of tax at £120 (the only businesses that price without sales tax are those that sell primarily to other businesses that are likely to be VAT registered and able to reclaim the tax)

 

7 hours ago, JeremyS said:

Yes. For adverts: https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/compulsory-costs-and-charges-vat.html

 

6 hours ago, JeremyS said:

Are you winding us up Louis? 🤣

Just pointing out the taxing genius of forcing all companies to hide VAT in their list prices such that now the price including VAT is the nominal list price in every consumer's mind.  Had the government not mandated this approach and allowed it to be added at checkout as in the US, no one in the UK would consider price+VAT as the nominal price.  I'm just pointing out the difference in the way US/UK views list prices thanks to different price advertising laws.

Few Americans have any idea how much they're paying in excise taxes, and I'm certain more than a few Brits have no idea how much they're paying in VAT taxes because it isn't itemized separately at checkout either.

And yes, used astro prices have risen considerably in the US as well on certain desirable items that are in short supply.  Heck, some used cars are selling for more than their original list price because of the shortage of new cars.

[wxsatuser]

I can assure you that us Brits know full well what VAT is and that it is in the price for consumers.

If a business deals mainly with businesses then prices will not have VAT.
If they deal with both businesses and consumers then the price will include VAT if not both prices should be displayed with equal prominence.

At work we deal with mainly businesses, when we quote prices to a business it is assumed there is no VAT added although we always quote the price plus VAT.
We do this because some unscrupulous firms try to catch you out by claiming the price you quoted is the lower price without VAT.

The arguments I have had with some of these chancers, they are just trying it on or are ignorant of the law.

 

[FLO]

Oh my! It has been a while since we had a discussion like this one at SGL. A US retailer too. 

Our price for the Tele Vue Nagler 31 is £595 (£495.83 excl VAT / approx $687). If you see a higher price please refresh your web browser. 

For our customers outside the UK our website automatically removes VAT. 

Our Tele Vue prices are based on US retail prices plus the true cost of importing. For this reason our prices vary over time (depends largely on the $-£ currency exchange rate). If at any time you notice a significant discrepancy between our Tele Vue retail prices and US $ prices (remember to allow for tax) please email us. 

HTH

[FLO]

9 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

Perhaps profit margins are higher there.

No. They are not. 

[FLO]

5 hours ago, Louis D said:

Few Americans have any idea how much they're paying in excise taxes, and I'm certain more than a few Brits have no idea how much they're paying in VAT taxes because it isn't itemized separately at checkout either.

I promise you here in the UK we are very aware VAT is included in almost all B-C retail prices. It is common knowledge. If the rate changed by even half of one percent it would be headline news. 

Steve 

[Alan White]

On 08/08/2021 at 00:16, Don Pensack said:

Except now, where ES is paying a 25%+ tariff on the importation of eyepieces, while TeleVue, with no Chinese sources, is not.

So the same eyepiece, sent to Europe or the UK will not pay the 25%+ importation tariff that ES pays in the US.

Don, this is dangerous politics teritory,
but the US chose to have a tariff issue with China, so the outcome is higher costs to US citizens.
The fact that in the UK we have not done so is also a political choice of the UK government,
This time for once the UK citizens have a win.

All part of lifes Ying and Yang.

 

[scotty38]

14 minutes ago, FLO said:

I promise you here in the UK we are very aware VAT is included in almost all B-C retail prices. It is common knowledge. If the rate changed by even half of one percent it would be headline news. 

Steve 

And just to add to this for our US friends when Steve says headline news he really means it. It would be on the front page of every newspaper, the lead story of every news programme along with countless interviews with multiple politicians for weeks... 

[johninderby]

And just to note invoices do break down the VAT charged so we know exactly what the tax is.

[JeremyS]

2 hours ago, johninderby said:

And just to note invoices do break down the VAT charged so we know exactly what the tax is.

I thought you’d obtained VAT exemption on handles, John 🤔

[johninderby]

8 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

I thought you’d obtained VAT exemption on handles, John 🤔

I chose that example as I knew you would notice the handle connection. 😁

 

[Captain Scarlet]

22 minutes ago, johninderby said:

I chose that example as I knew you would notice the handle connection. 😁

 

You went fishing, and caught the fish! Hook line sinker and handle!

Edited August 9, 2021 by Captain Magenta

[scarp15]

Tele Vue had for a while periodically run a promotional discount. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by scarp15

[Louis D]

32 minutes ago, Captain Magenta said:

You went fishing, and caught the fish! Hook line sinker and handle!

Fished in!

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, scotty38 said:

It would be on the front page of every newspaper, the lead story of every news programme along with countless interviews with multiple politicians for weeks... 

You're showing your age.  My grown kids don't read the newspaper, watch TV news, etc.  They tend to get their news from social media.  Unless an influencer brings it up, I doubt they would notice.  They tend to be oblivious of much of the news and like it that way because it often upsets them.

[scotty38]

42 minutes ago, Louis D said:

You're showing your age.  My grown kids don't read the newspaper, watch TV news, etc.  They tend to get their news from social media.  Unless an influencer brings it up, I doubt they would notice.  They tend to be oblivious of much of the news and like it that way because it often upsets them.

Yes you're probably right but when the grown ups change the VAT rate you can be sure they won't only announce it on Facebook and Instagram 🤣🤣

[johninderby]

1 minute ago, scotty38 said:

Yes you're probably right but when the grown ups change the VAT rate you can be sure they won't only announce it on Facebook and Instagram 🤣🤣

They would announce it then head for their nuclear bunkers to avoid the fallout. 😁

[scotty38]

3 minutes ago, johninderby said:

They would announce it then head for their nuclear bunkers to avoid the fallout. 😁

I don't think there's a bunker strong enough to stop that amount of fallout.....

[Louis D]

Getting way off topic now, but I just wanted to point out that UK VAT rate has changed over the years according to Wikipedia, and I didn't hear about raging protesters in tactical gear sacking Parliament for any of them:

Standard VAT rates since 1973:^[40]

From	To	Standard rate
1 April 1973	July 1974	10.0%
July 1974	17 June 1979	8.0%*
18 June 1979	18 March 1991	15.0%
19 March 1991	30 November 2008	17.5%
1 December 2008	31 December 2009	15.0%
1 January 2010	3 January 2011	17.5%
4 January 2011	Present	20.0%

*During this period an alternate VAT rate of 25% and then 12.5% was introduced for petrol and some luxury goods.^[41] This was abolished in 1979.

[FLO]

You don't need to believe us Louis. It is okay. VAT doesn't affect you in the US 🙂 

Steve 

[Stu]

17 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Getting way off topic now, but I just wanted to point out that UK VAT rate has changed over the years according to Wikipedia, and I didn't hear about raging protesters in tactical gear sacking Parliament for any of them:

Standard VAT rates since 1973:^[40]

From	To	Standard rate
1 April 1973	July 1974	10.0%
July 1974	17 June 1979	8.0%*
18 June 1979	18 March 1991	15.0%
19 March 1991	30 November 2008	17.5%
1 December 2008	31 December 2009	15.0%
1 January 2010	3 January 2011	17.5%
4 January 2011	Present	20.0%

*During this period an alternate VAT rate of 25% and then 12.5% was introduced for petrol and some luxury goods.^[41] This was abolished in 1979.

We noticed Louis, I guess we chose to protest in different ways.