Midlife Crises - telescope or porsche? which telescope?

[BernardH]

Hi, forgive my ignorance and stupidity, but i love my toys. i am looking for a telescope and i think i have decided on a Celestron 9.25 Nexstar evolution. i am moving to Saudi Arabia, so it will be used in the desert, so i think its a fairly self contained and usable unit to put in my car, drive in to the desert and set up. I would also like to take pictures, i have a great nikon DLSR camera but have heard i might be better buying a CCD camera and fortunately have the cash to fund all this. Because of the move i will be starting from scratch so i have three questions

1. your experience of this telescope?

2. what should i buy as accessories to make this work well

3. Camera?

i will appreciate any advice and bear in mind im thick

thanks

Bernard

[RT65CB-SWL]

Hi @BernardH and welcome to SGL.

I have the Celestron C6/SCT. If you do intend to start astro-ismaging two of the first things you will need are...

1. a focal reducer a.k.a. FF/FR. A telescope at f/10 is considered 'slow' - a FF/FR will make it f/6.3
2. a copy of this book: Make Every Photon Count

Not sure on how suitable the mount is for astro-imaging, because I am purely visual at present.

Other SGL imagers will advise what is best suited for you. Just bear in mind it is a steep learning curve, so you may need to get some practice before you leave. 

[cletrac1922]

Bernard

You cannot not go far wrong with a SW ED120 on a HEQ5 mount

Camera wise, would look at an air cooled ZWO ASI1600MC, coupled with ASIAIR as wireless hub, when using Skysafari

With a ZWO MC, then no need for a colour wheel as well, which adds to issues in itself

John

 

 

[PeterCPC]

The C9.25 will be good for planetary imaging without the reducer and you will need a high frame rate camera e.g. ASI224. You could try some short exposure DSO imaging but it's not the best set up for DSOs.

Peter

[Craney]

C9.25 +box + tripod + battery / power  + camera gear + laptop + small table + chair to sit on.....  all adds up in terms of space.

... you might end up getting a Porsche Cayenne after all   

[Knight of Clear Skies]

The C9.25 Nexstar is a good scope for visual & lunar/planetary imaging but largely unsuitable for DSO (Deep Sky Object) imaging. Buying 'too big a scope' is is a common regret among beginners. I'd second the recommendation above to read a book on imaging like 'Every Photon Counts'. DSO imaging is a learning curve, everything is more forgiving at short focal lengths.

For most people starting out I'd recommend the Samyang 135mm f2 camera lens over a scope. There are lots of images that what it's capable of in this thread.

"In most cases, I'd recommend this lens to most people starting out at AP ahead of a small scope, especially when working to a budget or trying it out. The focal length may be only 135mm but most beginners start out with small-pixel DSLRs - unless you can track very accurately and gather a great deal of data, you won't be able to make full use of their resolution with a scope. The lens also holds its value well on the used market, so could always be sold on at a later date."

[ollypenrice]

I really wouldn't spend a single penny on astrophotographic gear until you've had a good read-up on the subject because it is, time and again, totally counter intuitive. I would start here: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

You should also beware of the claims of manufacturers who will often assert that their products are optimized for imaging when they are not. In order to find what works it's a good idea to browse the images posted here and elsewhere to see what real imagers really use.

Olly

 

[Viktorious]

I have that setup. It does okay for planetary imaging and visual but even for that the mount struggles a bit. As an alt-az mount you can't do long exposures anyway (field rotation). The longest I've successfully gotten without field rotation and mount vibrations is around 25 seconds. 

 

If you're planning on getting serious with photography, including DSOs with long exposures, then the advice given is repeated wherever you ask. Get a nice refractor (apo) and a beefy equatorial mount. 

 

If you have a DSLR, the above mentioned Samyang lens is often seen at these kinds of forums with great results. A star tracker to that and you have a start. 

[alacant]

Hi

The best advice I can give is the one that helped me the most. No amount of reading or on-line advice can replace sharing hands on experience with someone who knows what they're doing. Any astro club will get you started and you'll almost certainly meet someone with the gear you're thinking of acquiring.

Cheers and good luck with the move. I think the desert skies will be superb no matter what you choose:)

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by alacant

[JG777]

As a visual setup the Evo is excellent, reliable GOTO and tracking and 9.25 delivers great results. I don't do imaging with mine, or at all really, but I don't think it would be most peoples first choice as an imaging rig. 

[Cosmic Geoff]

Just to echo what has been written above, the Celestron Nexstar Evolution 9.25 is a fine outfit for visual use, and with a camera like the ASI224MC (not a DSLR), you can successfully do planetary imaging with it.  In this role any slight lack of stability in the mount is not critical.

Re accessories, you will need some additional eyepieces and possibly a dew shield, but no need to rush into buying accessories before you have given the scope a good tryout. (IIRC the Evolution does not need an external power tank).

As for deep space imaging, as has been remarked, the Evolution 9.25 is not suited for this (regardless of what the manufacturers may suggest) and if you want to do this, you should read "Make Every Photon Count" and then buy some completely diferent (and equally expensive) kit.  One telescope does not fit all uses.

[Owmuchonomy]

I have the same optical tube but it’s used on an AZEQ6 mount. It’s quite heavy (about 11kg) with all the attachments. It’s good for visual and Solar System imaging. It’s also very good for spectrometry if you want something a bit different. In your situation I would use my grab and go setup. An ED80 on an AZ Gti mount powered by a cordless drill battery. Perfect for a night in the desert.

[JeremyS]

@BernardH if you buy a Porsche in Saudi, which was always one of the lowest costs places for car purchase, and bring it back with you at the end, the savings you have made will allow you to buy several telescopes. So you might as well buy the scope you like now 🙂

[Oldfort]

It's a bit of a conundrum.  For visual work, aperture rules, but more aperture means more weight.  This is paricularly an issue in respect of portability, which is important to you.  The C8 is significantly lighter than the C9.25 and in the datk desert skies will enable you to see thousands of faint galaxies, nebulae and the like.

For photography, as others have said, stability of the (equatorial) mount and the attached telescope is what counts.  This leads to relatively bigger mounts and smaller telescopes.

 

And the answer to this conundrum?

More than one telescope!  What's not to like.

[cfpendock]

As others have indicated, the Celestron is pretty good for visual - i.e. moon, planets, clusters etc.  

But for astrophotography, in the long run, it seems to me that a Porsche will be far less expensive, and nothing like the hassle - unless you like that of course.....

Chris

[Neil H]

Hi also remember a telescope can't kill you , just your wife if she knows how much you spend lol

[BernardH]

Guys Thank you very much, I've learnt a lot!!! so now the second part of my question - which Porsche!!!!

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, BernardH said:

Guys Thank you very much, I've learnt a lot!!! so now the second part of my question - which Porsche!!!!

Sorry, can't help you.  More of  a Corvette mid-life crisis kind of guy.  It's an American thing.

[Neil H]

It's not an American thing give me a Mustang with a blower any day 

[ollypenrice]

9 hours ago, BernardH said:

Guys Thank you very much, I've learnt a lot!!! so now the second part of my question - which Porsche!!!!

Any of the proper ones, rear or mid-engined. Not one of those Japanese SUVs with Porsche written on them! 😁

Olly

[Greymouser]

@BernardH I cannot comment on the Porsche, but can comment on the Evolution as I have been using it for quite a while now. I would say whilst the mount is excellent, no doubt about it, good tracking and Goto, ( though I doubt it is much good for photography, ) it is inadequate for the C9.25. It holds it fine and still tracks fine, but the length of the OTA means that the mount is not big enough, the OTA and extra kit can collide with the arm/mount. I would say that they should have made the arm of the mount a good six inches longer, to better accommodate the OTA. They beefed up the tripod for the C9.25, compared to the smaller variants, but did not beef up the mount itself, as far as I know. I would also say there is some issue with vibration with this setup, don't know if that is all the Evolution setups, or just this largest one. It is bearable for visual, but I imagine very annoying for photography.

I am saving up to buy an AZ EQ5, or maybe he AZ EQ6, to better support this OTA, but that is probably some way off. Meanwhile I intend to try this OTA on an another AZ mount. I still use the mount, just not with the C9.25, for ages.

I would also echo what others have said, try before you buy if you can. I certainly wish I had got the Evolution 8 EdgeHD setup, instead. Also I have to be honest, I use my little C5 on an AZGTi much more. This even though the AZGTi is far from perfect. The search for perfection goes on, which could take quite some time! 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Greymouser

[dweller25]

On 03/05/2020 at 02:27, BernardH said:

Hi, forgive my ignorance and stupidity, but i love my toys. i am looking for a telescope and i think i have decided on a Celestron 9.25 Nexstar evolution. i am moving to Saudi Arabia, so it will be used in the desert, so i think its a fairly self contained and usable unit to put in my car, drive in to the desert and set up. I would also like to take pictures, i have a great nikon DLSR camera but have heard i might be better buying a CCD camera and fortunately have the cash to fund all this. Because of the move i will be starting from scratch so i have three questions

1. your experience of this telescope?

2. what should i buy as accessories to make this work well

3. Camera?

i will appreciate any advice and bear in mind im thick

thanks

Bernard

Just get a 911 Turbo S and stop dreaming about telescopes 😂😂😂😂

[wimvb]

2 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

Any of the proper ones, rear or mid-engined. Not one of those Japanese SUVs with Porsche written on them! 😁

Olly

That limits the size of the mount & scope. Suddenly a Star Adventurer becomes attractive. 

[Ags]

I use a C6 on AZ-GTi when I want tracking or Goto features. The C6 is about at the limit of what I would put on an AZ-GTi but the result is good enough for me. the setup does very well for visual and takes some pretty good lunar pictures, well I think so anyway! I am even experimenting with photographing dim DSOs like star clusters, galaxies and smaller nebulae with the setup using millisecond exposures (Lucky imaging). The C6 plus AZ-GTi setup is for me the largest aperture I can get on my budget and still keep grab and go proportions. I can certainly say the fun stops when the scope gets too big.

For purely visual astronomy I prefer the C6 dual mounted with a small refractor on a manual alt-az mount (Berlebach Castor). Last night I was using this to scan the moon at 230x magnification. On other nights the small (wide-field) refractor helps me hunt down the few DSOs I can see from a city.

One thing to note is that a C6 is not a general purpose scope - it does extremely well on lunar and I expect planetary targets, and shows star clusters and galaxies well, but I do find it a bit underwhelming with regard to double stars. I have had a couple of smaller Maksutovs that have outperformed the C6 in the regard, both in terms of splitting capability and in terms of star shapes. So I am thinking of upgrading my refractor to remedy this. And the other shortcoming is an SCT is always limited in field of view - many interesting targets are quite large and the SCT is too "zoomed in" for them - the Pleiades and the Andromeda galaxy are two examples.

I have attached a couple of pictures taken with my C6 and AZ-GTi - note these are from a severely light-polluted site. The kind of planetary photography you can do with the C9.25 Evo does not require a dark site.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Ags

[wimvb]

@BernardH: if you will use your gear in the desert, my guess is that you want something small and not too fast. Night temperature can drop fast, and you'd want your scope to cool down as well. So, small rather than large. Slower optics will probably be affected less by temperature changes. Otoh, a cooled camera rather than a dslr, to keep that part of your setup as stable as possible. Just my uneducated guess.