Binoviewer advice

[Moonshane]

Hi all

In the hopefully near future I am considering buying a pair of binoviewers predominantly for solar observing (white light with Lunt wedge / 120ED f7.5 and 100ED f7 and Ha with 100mm PST mod) but possibly for other solar system objects too.

As a user of Televue eyepieces generally, and ED or reasonably high spec newts, I appreciate decent optics and in this case would prefer to save a little longer to buy a better pair than work through the cheaper models to eventually get to the ones I want.

That said, I’d hope to spend no more than about £400 or so used or new and this will naturally restrict my options. I’ll be using a Baader Zeiss T2 prism to keep the in focus down if this affects the best options.

It looks to me like the best option for me might be a used pair of Baader Zeiss Mark IV or the cheaper Baader Maxbright (I think this would be the better option with the T2 connections if using the Baader Zeiss prism?). I am assuming the former would be better but is this the case? Are the differences prism size (I’ll probably be using plossls but may eventually use Panoptics) the only differences or is there an optical benefit to the increased cost or some other ergonimic factor?

I have looked online and there’s a lot of reporting but I’d appreciate the views of SGLers as we are mainly UK based with our paltry skies and also I value your judgement. I’d appreciate any advice that can be given.

Thanks

Shane

[Stu]

Hi Shane,

We can try my Mark IVs in your scopes at the end of October if you can wait that long?

I've tried William Optics, Baader MaxBrights, Denkmeier (an older model, can't recall which), TS and now have Baader Zeiss Mark IVs.

For some reason, I was never comfortable with the William Optics or MaxBrights. I think I may be very sensitive to misalignment due to differences between my eyes, and I found the eyepiece centering on both these models to be a bit too vague. They have various adjustments which can be made but it was all beyond my limited patience to deal with.

I was happy with each of the following pairs though, the Denks I sold because I wanted the cash for something else, and the TS unit I only sold because I saw a pair of Mark IVs at a decent price.

For the money, I was very impressed with the TS unit. The dioptre adjustment and self centering eyepiece holders worked very nicely and I had no problems with alignment. I would happily go back to these, the larger and apparently more accurate prisms (plus reputation as being one of the best) was what tempted me to buy the IVs.

The only slight issue with my IVs is that they are an early version, and have slightly too accurate/tight tolerance on the eyepiece holders so some eyepieces don't fit! I have settled on a pair of Zeiss Orthos (ex microscope eyepieces) and am very happy with the results. I have no issues merging the images. TV plossls would do an excellent job I'm sure, and I have wondered about trying the Vixen SLVs. To be most comfortable I think a decent sized exit lens and generous eye relief are useful, something which would make me encourage you to Barlow rather than go for smaller f/l plossls. 

For white light solar, I use a GPC, then an AP Barcon with varying length of extension tube to get up to around x4 (plus the GPC). I've no real idea how much mag that gives, but the answer is 'enough!' and the results are wonderful. I suffer from bad floaters in my main observing eye and these really help to reduce their visibility on such a bright target.

I have no experience with binoviewers and Ha scopes. I'm sure the results would be wonderful, but suspect there may be some inwards focus issues to be checked out. Others can advise far better.

I get very mixed results on other targets. The moon is amazing, and well worth using them. Planets I see more detail with cyclops viewing (despite my floaters), but get a more colourful view with binoviewers. Clusters, globs and PNs all seem good with the binoviewers, doubles, particularly tight ones I prefer cyclops.

Personally, they are worth having just for the white light solar views alone, I'm still experimenting with them for other targets but what is very nice is to have reached a stage where I can just put out a set of kit and know that I'm getting just about the best white light views possible with this scope, no need to mess around.

[Moonshane]

Quality feedback thanks Stu. The TS option is not one I was aware of so thank you. I'd love to try yours if that's OK and we get chance. I'll certainly need a bit of time to save for these so it's likely to be the end of this year at the earliest so plenty of thinking time.

[Stu]

6 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

Quality feedback thanks Stu. The TS option is not one I was aware of so thank you. I'd love to try yours if that's OK and we get chance. I'll certainly need a bit of time to save for these so it's likely to be the end of this year at the earliest so plenty of thinking time.

No probs Shane.

These are the ones. They don't come with eyepieces but I don't think that's a bad thing, the money is all in the BV.

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1855_TS-Astro-Binoviewer-for-telescopes--with-compression-ring.html

[Moonshane]

Nice one. They look excellent.

[Ibbo!]

If I remember I will bring my Maxbrights.

I have to be in the mood to use them as I do find them fiddly to adjust but once done they give great views on the moon and planets

[Timebandit]

Hello. I had Stu old TS Binoviewers, via Derek(the kit does go around on this site?). I have used these in the equinox 120ed apo and do get very nice results from them , despite their reasonably affordable price tag. Actually I had them in the frac last night as the moon was out and the sky' were clear. As I have just paired up my televue 8mm plossl i decided to give them a whirl in the Binoviewers . Put the Binoviewers straight through and the 8mm plossl in. I got some very nice views from the set up. Eye relief was a bit tight ,but I did not mind as it was just like having your eyes pressed to the cups of ordinary binoculars. No light interference and just a nice relaxing way to spend 40mins or so drifting across the lunar surface. I have done a bit of a write up in the kit review section of the TS Binoviewers if your interested.

I hope the above helps and I do recommend taking a trip into binoviewing world as it does increase the experience☺

[Moonshane]

Cheers both

All good so far! Will have a butchers at the review.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

Shane,

i would personally go for the Baader Mark IV model.Could be difficult to find one,but it is worth it.That unit has 30mm prisms what will give you the ability of using even 35mm EP without vignetting and excelent quality of prisms and coatings.EP holders are screw type but you can get them re-made into Baader click lock and also supercharge the unit to 30mm openings on both ends and you will have a superb unit not only for solar system but also for DSO`s.

And that unit has the T2 connections so you will have short light pass through your connections.TS unit doesnt have it unfortunately.

[Moonshane]

Cheers Gaidis

I have some serious thinking to do I reckon.  The good news is that I have to save up so plenty of time

[Highburymark]

Shane - Baader binos obviously make sense if you're going to pair them with the Zeiss prism, but it might be worth doing a bit of research before buying as I've read that Baader is going to launch a replacement for the Maxbright soon. 

[Peter Drew]

I use binoviewers and 2x Barlow exclusively now for high mag high res Ha solar observation. I have several binoviewer units including Denks but get on best with a common Revelation model. Field of view is not a consideration as I use a 5mm blocking filter despite the telescope being 6" F10, this might be reviewed for other purposes.   

[Space Hopper]

Hi Shane,

I use a Mk 5 with my refractor, which was an upgrade from my 'entry level' Maxbright.

The Maxbright is actually very good, and used in conjunction with the short Baader T3 prism diagonal, provides one of the shortest lightpath configurations available.

 

The Mk 5 has for me performed excellently on all objects.

Used in conjunction with Panoptics they are a formidable combination. Last years eclipses and Mays Mercury transit were spectacular.

As said, White light solar views really come alive when using both your eyes.

The Mk V is so much easier to use with GPCs as well. I found the Maxbright too fiddly.

The Mk V has the quick release changer and also has very well designed eyepiece holders. Its very quick to change eyepieces with the Mk V ; much quicker than anything else.

 

Although i can use the Mk V on my OO 10" Dob (with the Newt GPC) i'm stuck with a low power of 113x

Not what i really want.

I've recently taken delivery of a Earthwin Newtonian Binoviewer system.

This has the Powerswitch system integrated (and a filterswitch) and gives me 3 different powers on tap with a single set of eyepieces. The low power arm gives me an improved 80x.

 

With binoviewing, there is usually some sort of a compromise somewhere, but if you can optimise your system, a lot of issues can be overcome.

They also work well with other scopes such as SCTs. The golden rule with CAT scopes though is to keep the lightpath to an absolute minimum.

 

 

 

 

 

[alan potts]

Shane good luck with what ever you buy, I can offer nothing in the way of advice. I was going to get into this area of our hobby, last time in England got into a position to get another 24mm Panoptic making two but completely forgot about the viewers. Sort of ruined the plan.

Alan

[Moonshane]

I have been offered a pair of Maxbrights and some parts for a great price so will be going down that route for now. Thanks for all the usual great sgl advice.

I think I have  a prism lined up and will probably use 18mm bgos initially working towards a pair of 19mm Panoptics and various gpcs.

I may eventually get some mk iv but will see whether I get on with them first. Just got to fund it all now!

[Stu]

Nice one Shane

The T2 connections certainly make things easier and more secure.

 

[YKSE]

Congratulations.

 Maxbright is among the best starter binoviewers IMHO. The possibel T2 connection saves valuable light path, makes more refractor-firendly, with other Baader stuff (T2 prism e.g) it ocmes to focus with the 1.25x GPC in my 80ED and 120ED for low power view.

Merging image should be the first major obstacle for many from my experience. The Moon looked like having twice as many craterlets in the beginning, It took me quite a few sessions to have good merge of images, and I don't have problem using not-well-collimated binocular, as a matter of fact, my 15x70 celestron was so out of collimation that my wife complaining head-ache, but I could still use it without issue(Collimation was done after complaining of course).

 

 

[Stu]

12 minutes ago, YKSE said:

Congratulations.

 Maxbright is among the best starter binoviewers IMHO. The possibel T2 connection saves valuable light path, makes more refractor-firendly, with other Baader stuff (T2 prism e.g) it ocmes to focus with the 1.25x GPC in my 80ED and 120ED for low power view.

Merging image should be the first major obstacle for many from my experience. The Moon looked like having twice as many craterlets in the beginning, It took me quite a few sessions to have good merge of images, and I don't have problem using not-well-collimated binocular, as a matter of fact, my 15x70 celestron was so out of collimation that my wife complaining head-ache, but I could still use it without issue(Collimation was done after complaining of course).

 

 

I did find the maxbrights more fiddly in respect of eyepiece position and adjustment for collimation.

[Moonshane]

It's like a right of passage! I am more worried about optics really so hope that they are decent enough for now and that I can learn the 'right' position quickly. I'd imagine that setting the IP distance with the unit off the scope might be advantageous?

[niallk]

Best of luck with the Maxbrights - I have found them fantastic in my 250px on lunar, planets, and solar (with baader film).

[YKSE]

51 minutes ago, Stu said:

I did find the maxbrights more fiddly in respect of eyepiece position and adjustment for collimation.

That can very well be the case, also there still be some difference between binoview and a pair of bin, our brains need time to find out right way to process the images.

 

41 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

It's like a right of passage! I am more worried about optics really so hope that they are decent enough for now and that I can learn the 'right' position quickly. I'd imagine that setting the IP distance with the unit off the scope might be advantageous?

Yes, in the beginning, IP distance was quite critical, a little miss, I got two Jupipters. Nowdays, I can easily move the IP distance some mm either way, still get a good merged image.

[Stu]

9 minutes ago, YKSE said:

That can very well be the case, also there still be some difference between binoview and a pair of bin, our brains need time to find out right way to process the images.

 

Yes, in the beginning, IP distance was quite critical, a little miss, I got two Jupipters. Nowdays, I can easily move the IP distance some mm either way, still get a good merged image.

I find it varies between objects too. I had few if any problems with the sun, and also the moon, but planets I found trickier. I looked at M13 recently and that was fine strangely. I still prefer cyclops for planets due to the extra detail I see, will keep on trying though, the binoviewers aren't going anywhere this time.

I just picked up some Nikon microscope eyepieces with adaptors for a decent price, should be 17mm equivalents. I'm hoping they will give me a good result on the sun without needing so many extension tubes on my Barlow!

[YKSE]

41 minutes ago, Stu said:

I find it varies between objects too. I had few if any problems with the sun, and also the moon, but planets I found trickier. I looked at M13 recently and that was fine strangely. I still prefer cyclops for planets due to the extra detail I see, will keep on trying though, the binoviewers aren't going anywhere this time.

I just picked up some Nikon microscope eyepieces with adaptors for a decent price, should be 17mm equivalents. I'm hoping they will give me a good result on the sun without needing so many extension tubes on my Barlow!

Japp, definitely object dependant. I looked at M13 a couple of times now, binoviewer is preferred for me. but, there's a bright star in about 1 o'clock to M13, only in left side ocular and whole binoview, not in right side ocular, have not yet identified the cause.

i've got a pair of Nikon zooms, waiting to make adapters to work in binoviewer, initial tests look good, very low scatter on bright stars, about the same scatter level 10mm and 18mm BCO.

[John]

Well done Shane

I'll be looking forward to your reports on this.

I really must try binoviewing again - my 130mm frac is "binoviewer friendly" so it's crying out for this approach.

I just missed out on some Denks recently on Astro Buy & Sell - must learn not to hesitate !

[YKSE]

Just now, John said:

Well done Shane

I'll be looking forward to your reports on this.

I really must try binoviewing again - my 130mm frac is "binoviewer friendly" so it's crying out for this approach.

I just missed out on some Denks recently on Astro Buy & Sell - must learn not to hesitate !

Yes £850 including a pair of 24mm Pan was almost too good to be true.