Binoviewer advice

[John]

1 minute ago, YKSE said:

Yes £850 including a pair of 24mm Pan was almost too good to be true.

I would have taken the 14mm Denk eyepieces that were on offer as well ...... but I just missed out

[YKSE]

6 minutes ago, John said:

I would have taken the 14mm Denk eyepieces that were on offer as well ...... but I just missed out

yes, £1000 for the whole meaning trying some great kits and get paid if not suitable

[Moonshane]

cheers guys. Looking forward to it myself. recent views through Stu's and Peter Drew's set ups really spurred me into action.

I'll report back when I have some 'air time'.

[Moonshane]

I am trying to reduce the 'fiddliness' of changing GPCs on my Baader Maxbrights as I intend to use one set of 18mm BCOs and the set of three Baader GPCs to achieve focus and also the appropriate magnification. I can see magnification being more or less set with a certain scope for solar but if using at night for e.g. planetary and then lunar I can see regular changes being needed.

I have concluded that if I accept that I use 1.25” nosepieces with both the BVs and the diagonal (I plan eventually to buy a Zeiss Baader T2 prism) that a good way to do this would be to buy a set of three 1.25” T2 nosepieces and screw a GPC into each one. This way, it would be less fiddly to swap them about and they could be screwed into either the wedge on the scope side or the BVs to vary the power, giving me 8 magnifications with one set of eyepieces.

Whilst some might think this somewhat excessive, the cost of a nose at £25 vs the cost of a GPC at £100+ is low and it protects the latter as well as making switches more convenient. Does this sound reasonable? Any pitfalls/things I have missed?

[Space Hopper]

Thats why i went down the '2 diagonal' route Shane.

I must confess i have the Mk V 1.25x & 1.7x gpcs, but never use them UNLESS i'm doing solar. Come to think of it i don't use the 1.7x at all !

Beauty is these gpcs screw into the back of the Mk V so great for solar where i'm not using the prism diagonal, just the wedge & bino.

 

When i do a general night time session i usually start with the 24Pans with no gpc, lowest power, and just do a gereric sweep about looking at clusters etc.

I'll then move upto the 19 Pans if there are any nice planets / moon about and assess the seeing conditions.

If the seeing etc looks half decent (a rarity) i'll then change diagonals. My other prism has the 2.6x gpc permenently residing in it ; my high power diagonal.

Then its a case of simply changing eyepieces, and not having to screw / unscrew anything in the dark with my mediocre eyesight. (read drop or loose stuff)

Changing eyepieces is fiddly enough of course, but the Mk V makes this very easy & quick. You canchange 2 eyepieces, simultaneously in seconds.

 

The logic here of course is if you're constantly wanting to change powers up and down is to opt for a 'Powerswitch' style binoviewer in the first place, ie a Denkmeier / Earthwin system.

And when you factor in the cost of 2 or 3 or even 4 sets of eyepieces + gpcs etc  a Powerswitch which gives 3 different magnifications starts to make a lot of sense.

 

This is what i've done with my 10" OO Dob. This Earthwin bino is new and undergoing testing. The 3 powers are 1.2x 1.9x and 2.4x.

It also has a 'filterslide' coupled to the Powerswitch so i can instantly use a moon filter / nebula filter etc. Its neat, if a little cumbersome.

Maybe a i should consider a bigger scope.........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Moonshane]

Amazing reply, thanks Rob. Definitely something to work towards. I have not even looked through mine though yet so I'll see what happens. As you say, it might be best to do something like your set up but for now it will be fun experimenting!

[Moonshane]

Well, I have still not used my BVs but have on on the way to me the bits and bobs I need to get going:

1.25" nose with inserted thread for glasspath correctors. I'll use this in the BVs initially to allow me to BV in the 1.25" Lunt wedge and the 1.25" PST mod blocking filter.

1.25" to T2 helical focuser and 15mm T2 extension tube. This will eventually be used on the Baader Zeiss prism (when I can afford one!) but for now I'll be using the helical on the PST mod. I discovered I could cut down the focal point by around 100mm (behind the etalon naturally) by taking off the current helical and extension and screwing a M57-T2 adapter in their place. I can then screw the Baader helical straight onto the etalon. I think I'll buy another one of these when I get the Baader prism if this works as well as I hope.

2x18mm Baader Classic Orthos which with the two GPCs I have will give 85/90x and 130/144x with my solar scopes and with the GPC on the BVs themselves.

[Space Hopper]

Thats a very high magnification there Shane, possibly too high for Solar work.

Puzzled that its so high ?

What FL is your scope ?

 

 

 

[Moonshane]

My scopes are a 120ed at 900mm and a 100mm pst mod at 1000mm focal length.

I have assumed the 1.7x gpc will 'Barlow' at that strength.

I am currently routinely using 80x and 90x for solar with these scopes in cyclops mode.

[Stu]

Ooh, the anticipation Shane . Hope you like them now!!

Tubby Bear, I frequently use high mags over x100 and often over x150 for white light solar. If the seeing is ok then it is the way to see the granulation cells and fine detail in ARs.

Shane, one other handy gadget to spend money on.... The T2 quick changer.

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p5547_TS-T2-Thread-360--Rotation-and-Quick-Changer---5-5mm-short.html

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7744_Baader-2456322---Heavy-Duty-T2-Quick-Changing-System.html

Not cheap, but make it much quicker to change T2 threaded accessories over. They do add a little to the optical path which can be an issue both from a focus perspective and also adding mag if between the Barlow/GPC and eyepiece. The first link is cheaper and shorter which is good.

 

[Moonshane]

Blimey It never stops!

Yeah looking forward to actually using them.

 

[Space Hopper]

The 'quick-changers' are great, but like alot of Baader stuff, rather pricey.

I much prefer the added security of the heavy duty pin version too. 

[Moonshane]

They do look good but but I have a bit to buy yet

[Moonshane]

Not managed a BV session yet but tried on of the BCOs in cyclops mode in the PST mod (56x) and first impressions are excellent. The eye placement is very easy, the field just right for my BF5 as it appears to be a good match for the sweet spot, and the detail sharp as I have seen it in anything else. The eye 'flap' is also great and prevents the need for a shading hand at the side of your head so all round, more relaxed. Obviously a cursory look really but very happy - I like it! Plus as suggested, it focuses further out than average and is very light. Using a Baader 1.25" clicklock and M57-T2 adapter, I can cut off around 70mm from the focus chain so I should be able to use just the 1.7x GPC (and eventually the 1.25x) to get focus without any further room to find. I may once I get a Baader prism not even need a GPC at all.

[Moonshane]

Just tried them on the sun with both the pst mod and the lunt 1.25" and could not get focus other than with the 2.6x  gpc which with the 18mm bcos is a bit too much power I think.

The culprit might be the long nose which protrudes out out of out of the eyepiece  holder in the pst mod by about 8mm.  reducing the length of the nose by this amount will sort the pst. 

The lunt wedge will be more troublesome.  even with the filters other than the nd3 removed so that the nose touches the eyepiece holder other will not focus. Therefore the options are buy additional eyepieces or cut the tube.  For now I'll do the former but if I ever get a baader cool wedge I'll presumably have to resort to the latter.

I'll report back with progress when I make some!

[Space Hopper]

The Baader HW works very well with Binoviewers Shane. They (Baader) even do a dedicated adapter.

 

[Moonshane]

By way of an update, I now have in my armoury:

Baader Maxbright binoviewers

1.7x and 2.6x Baader Glasspath correctors

18mm Baader Classic Orthos x 2

Baader t2 prism

I have successfully managed to gain focus with my 100mm Tal/pst mod (thanks to a kind SGLer cutting down one of my nosepieces by 6mm) and the 1.7x GPC and this equates to 94x (or the equivalent of a 10.5mm eyepiece. The sun fills the field with just a little space around it and the view when the seeing allows is spectacular. That said, it's a little dimmer than I am used to (I normally observe the sun in Ha at 55x with the 18mm BCOs (or 66x with the 15mm plossl. Albeit from only two short sessions interspersed with much passing cloud, my summary at 94x would be "surface detail much enhanced but proms suffer a little". I suspect the prom issue is one of a little too much magnification and I hope that when the same kind SGLer makes an adapter allowing me to connect my pst eyepiece holder/blocking filter directly to the prism I can use the pst mod with the binoviewers au naturelle and this will provide 55x which should be an ideal observing magnification. That said, the view with good seeing through the higher magnification will be superb, especially when I am used to the views - I am almost settled on the views and eye placement and merging does not seem to be an issue thankfully 

Last night I tried the moon with the 120mm ED, the Baader prism and the 1.7x GPC plus 18mm BCOs. Despite it being like looking through the bottom of a pool, I can see that the view when the seeing is sharper will be sensational. It's so comfortable using two eyes and a stable tracking platform that it's almost mesmerising. I'm hooked for sure.

I have briefly tried white light with the 1.25" Lunt wedge but could not get focus with the 1.7x GPC at all. This meant I was forced to use the 2.6x GPC which just about focused. but at 130x which is a little too much in general for the seeing other than on the best days I suspect. I have agreed to buy a pair of cheapish 25mm plossls which should work well and provide 83x with the 2.6x GPC preventing a need to cut the tube down, something I'd not be worried about doing (and would need to if I buy, as I plan to, a Baader Cool Wedge) but prefer not to for now. I am pretty sure I'll eventually buy a pair of 25mm TV plossls and possibly even a pair of 32s. If I do cut the tube I may even go the other way too and buy a pair of 10mm BCOs to prevent the need to changing out the GPC.

Overall the BVs are doing exactly what I'd hoped and with more practice they will become a favourite tool for solar and lunar observing.

As an aside I am very impressed with the Baader T2 prism. It's not the Zeiss version but works very will indeed and even with the moon and a lot of moisture in the air, there was not much scatter at all. If another came up used I'd certainly buy one and although I might then start saving for the zeiss version I'd suspect there would not be that much enhancement at the magnifications I am using.

Thanks for all your help on my choices 

[Stu]

Great stuff Shane. It's all coming together now, glad you like the views!!

[Timebandit]

Hi Shane. I am so glad you like your binoviewing experience. It has obviously been a bit of hassle getting all the kit together to allow you to reach the required point of focus by the sounds of things and s quality image that you obviously want, but you seem to be well on your way now. I find binoviewing opens up a different aspects to targets and far more relaxed way of viewing compared to Cyclops IMO. I can see some more eyepieces on the way for you, I do like the TV 32mm plossl for binoviewing, but the trouble with using two eye's you have to double up eyepieces so cost can go up. Anyway have fun ?

[Moonshane]

I think I'll go down the cheapie route first to test a pair of 25mm and also 32mm plossls and then upgrade to TV once happy. That said, I have a 24mm Pan so maybe 'just' another 24mm Pan would be ideal.

[John]

Very interesting and encouraging update Shane

I can see that binoviewers would be a very, very nice option to have in the toolbox but it sounds like they would not totally replace some fine eyepieces used singly for observing the deep sky ?

 

 

[Moonshane]

Indeed John

For me, and so far at least, I feel that for DSOs I need to get the magnification well down to use BVs on all but solar and lunar (possibly planetary too but cannot test that currently!).

However, I suspect if I can use the 25mm without the need for a GPC, I might be able to use them for some of the brighter objects....watch this space. I do think though that a single good eyepiece will often be more convenient as BVs certainly take a bit of effort to set up. The views are worth it though, so far. I do still think that for a quick peek between showers etc, a G&G scope, on a giro mount with a single eyepiece will always be more practical.

 

[Timebandit]

1 hour ago, Moonshane said:

I think I'll go down the cheapie route first to test a pair of 25mm and also 32mm plossls and then upgrade to TV once happy. That said, I have a 24mm Pan so maybe 'just' another 24mm Pan would be ideal.

 

Hello Shane. That's what I did initially when starting binoviewing. I got some less expensive skywatcher super plossl in 10mm and 25mm pairs and thisbwas a good and cheap way to experiment initially. views were not to bad in all fairness. But as always in this hobby you push for that bit more sharpness. As I already had televues in 32mm and 8mm it made sence IMO to pair up these when they came on the market used. And also the same with the 18mm BGO to pair these up when possible. As for the Now price of televues I better not get started on this one, it is enough to say IMO the prices are getting very difficult to justify. I have heard a few people going down the televues pan route with Binoviewers and I should imagine the pans are  very good. But it's like the ZAO I find it a bit hard to justify the costs but as you already have onee 24 pan then  it makes sense I suppose to double up at the right time and cost. Even though IMO Orthos are very good and can be used with great success 

Binoviewing does take more time and trouble in setting up compared to Cyclops , but in the right conditions and on the right targets then IMO well worth the added experience I gain from double vision viewing. If it's going to be one of those nights of 20min cloud interruption viewing then I would not even think about binoviewing, but on a steady clear night it is well worth the effort. It takes me back to how I first got into the hobby with binoculars. But with binoviewing I so  much more aperture and magnification therefore a closer sharper view of targets as well as a more wide fied view.  It's like everything about this hobby is about seeing ,and Binoviewers are just another part of the armoury. IMO to get the best views out of this hobby then you need a combination of equipment ranging from binoculars, refractors, Binoviewers , reflectors. They all have their strengths and weaknesses and it is up to the individual observer to decide what they are after in that particular viewing session and use the best piece of there kit for the designated target or targets.      

[John]

55 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

..... a quick peek between showers....

 

If we ever rename the forum, that might make a very apt title !

 

[YKSE]

1 hour ago, Moonshane said:

I think I'll go down the cheapie route first to test a pair of 25mm and also 32mm plossls and then upgrade to TV once happy. That said, I have a 24mm Pan so maybe 'just' another 24mm Pan would be ideal.

25mm plossl or 20mm SWA should work fine with all the smaller binoviewers with clear aperture of 23mm or less. 24mm Pan or 32 plossl should show quite strong vignetting in these binoewers (it's fine if your eyes don't see it).

24 pan are more suitable for those binos with larger clear apertures.