Explore Scientific 24mm 68deg bargain

[F15Rules]

I'm really glad to hear members positive reactions towards the ES24 given the disappointment I'd experiences, although I still have to question why a mid range ep of only 68° suffers performance in the last 10% to edge even in slower scopes?

What's the verdict to the cause of this? Do panoptics suffer similar softness towards the edge as the ES performance has been likened to the Pan in the past ? I think it has now been established that I landed myself a poor example regards sharpness but could the soft edges be due the distortion I'd seen in both the ES & MV 24mm ?

If everyone is having a similar experience with the edge performance of the ES24 I beg the question why ES can ask £130+ for the 68° 24mm when the outer 10% fov is soft? Even BST starguiders appear sharp all the way to the edge in slower scopes although, admittedly lack the same level as build quality as the ES24

Sorry not to chip in before but I've been offline in deepest Norfolk for most of the past week (some great skies though, at last!).

Picking up on spaceboy's last paragraph above - "Why can ES ask £130 for the 68 deg 24mm when the outer 10% fov is soft?"

I'd offer several answers and refer back to the original title of this thread - "Explore Scientific 24mm 68 degree bargain"...

-At £130 (and at the time of this thread posting £80) this eyepiece costs 46% and 66% respectively less than the best UK Panoptic 24mm price I could find (£240 at Widescreen Centre - £293 at TH!). So in my book that makes it a real BARGAIN.

-I only use refractors (and now a mini mak) at F9.5 down to F15 and haven't seen that level of softening at the edge

-At the above rate of savings, I could buy two ES and/or Maxvision eyepieces at least (potentially 3) for the price of one Panoptic - that adds to the attraction of the ES for me personally - and will also make them very attractive used buys too.

-Finally, and perhaps most importantly for observers like myself, I use mainly driven mounts, so I keep the object centred all the time I am viewing, unless I choose to switch the drives off, for example to look at the edge of the field when interested in debates such as the one above. I appreciate that Dobs are mainly manual, "nudge driven" scopes, so that the best possible edge sharpness is much more important. For my fracs (and Maks) this isn't an issue and the quality/price mix of ES (and Maxvision even more so) is an intoxicating mix!

From my limited comparisons with ES and Maxvision versions in the same focal lengths (20mm only so far), I can see no optical differences other than a slightly different snap focus point in ES vs Maxvision. Build wise it comes down to personal preference: the Argon purging is an interesting, but not important, novelty to me, as I don't  expose my eyepieces to water/rain, but I do personally prefer the eyecup and body build of the ES to the MVsL it gives me more of a premium, feelgood factor - but I know others will have the opposite view - which is fine of course!  .

I had a just stunning view of the Perseus double cluster in the ES 24mm 68 the other night, even allowing for a bit of moonlight intrusion.

I'm just hoping ES do similar offers on some of the sizes I am missing in coming weeks and months!  

Dave

[bingevader]

Great points Dave.

I wouldn't own a 24mm 82° EP if it weren't for MV.

[F15Rules]

Great points Dave.

I wouldn't own a 24mm 82° EP if it weren't for MV.

Cheers Ben , that's exactly what my point in this thread was..

kind regards,

Dave

[F15Rules]

Big thank you to Dave for the heads up on these!

I've been using two 25 televue plossi in my binoviewers since getting them but wanted a wider field of view.

I couldn't quite justify two 24 pans but for just over £150 for two 24 68deg ex sc these are a true bargain!

Quick delivery and nicely packaged the retailer was very good for me. 

Tried them last night on Saturn and the moon through my OMC and they were excellent, so one very happy camper.

The wider view with the binos makes a big difference over the plossis. I didn't notice any loss of view at the edges but then I was using a very slow scope.

Hoping to try them today on the sun through the faster lunt and see how they perform.

20150821_195158.jpg

Hi Simon,

That's a superb looking setup, and having owned a set of Baader Maxbrights until recently I can vouch for how good they are for relaxed viewing..

Glad you like your new pair of EPs 

Dave

[Thonolan]

Clear skies are slowly coming back and yesterday I was able to look through my new eyepieces for the first time since I bought them. I wouldn't even call it a proper first light since about 60 % of the sky was still cloudy and many of the interesting objects couldn't be seen. So I could only have a look at some bright stars (mainly Altair and Arcturus) and casual star fields as well as Saturn, and only with the Mak (f/15) and less than ideal seeing and transparency. Not the best conditions for a test but still enough to discover some interesting facts.

The ES68 34 mm is tack sharp from edge to edge. I always tend to find some slight edge degradation with eyepieces even in my f/15 scope. So far only the Panoptic 24 and this ES eyepiece looked practically free from aberrations. It was honestly an engaging view. And it's extremely comfortable. Definitely better corrected than the ES68 24mm, which is good but not perfect near the edges.

It was also my first view ever through 100 degree eyepieces. I had used 82 degree eyepieces before and loved them. Well, all I can say is that I'm definitely a 100 degree fan already. Tried first the ES100 25mm. The first 20 seconds or so felt a bit awkward but that was due to my inexperience with ultra wide fields. I quickly found the ideal eye position and was positively surprised it was so easy to see the whole (and huge) FOV. Now that was immersive! Lots of small dim stars near Altair made a beautiful field. I moved Altair away from the center to check edge performance. Immediately noticed some strong lateral color starting from the outer 20 % part of the field. I guess this is something that a long focal ratio doesn't correct, unlike other aberrations such as astigmatism? Tried other bright objects such as Arcturus and Saturn and could detect the same obvious lateral color again. Not sure about other edge of field aberrations as color was definitely the dominant one. However, it wasn't noticeable with dimmer stars. I wanted to test the eyepiece with some globular and open clusters but the clouds seemed to be covering the most interesting ones. As there was a bit of clear sky around the Summer Triangle region I just pointed the scope towards some random places in the Milky Way. Beautiful views as the lateral color wasn't noticeable with such dim targets. By the way, the eyepiece delivered a surprisingly satisfying view of Saturn.

The ES100 20mm is clearly better than the 25mm when it comes to lateral color. It was there to some degree, but way subtler. I found both eyepieces to be equally comfortable and didn't need to be too close to the eyelens in order to see the whole FOV. Having used some 82 degree ES eyepieces in the past I must say I find it's easier to see the field stop in the 100 degrees than in the 82. That was a really nice surprise.

That's all I can say for the time being as it was quite a mediocre night. Weather forecast is looking good for the coming days though. I might be able to test the eyepieces with faster scopes tomorrow.

[John]

Interesting report. I was really impressed with the ES 20mm / 100 when I had one for a couple of months. I found I needed to fold the eyecup down to readilly see the edges of the field of view - do you find that ?. It's no problem to do and I thought the eyepiece even more immersive when used like that.

[Chris]

Same as John, I had the ES100's for about a year and always kept the eyecup down, it was very immersive like that. As a big bonus, my eyelashes always cleared the eyelens due to it being so concave.

Hopefully you'll get some better conditions soon so you can really start to enjoy them in full flight 

Sorry to hear about the lateral colour on the edges of the 25mm ES100, as said maybe this is why TV stopped at the E21? 

[Thonolan]

Interesting report. I was really impressed with the ES 20mm / 100 when I had one for a couple of months. I found I needed to fold the eyecup down to readilly see the edges of the field of view - do you find that ?. It's no problem to do and I thought the eyepiece even more immersive when used like that.

Yes, same here

[Thonolan]

Sorry to hear about the lateral colour on the edges of the 25mm ES100, as said maybe this is why TV stopped at the E21? 

Might be one of those compromises Mr. Nagler talked about indeed.

[John]

Peripheral CA was one of the issues Richard Lines identified in his report on the ES 25mm / 100.

It's present to a small degree in all ultra / hyper wide eyepieces though. I guess when a design concept is "pushed" to it's outer limits issues which are very slight at more modest specifications become a little more apparent.

[gbarnett]

Telescope House have the ES 24mm 68 degree eyepiece for £69. That's £72.49 with postage!  So you can get a bargain in the UK too!

Graham

[Mrbloke]

Telescope House have the ES 24mm 68 degree eyepiece for £69. That's £72.49 with postage!  So you can get a bargain in the UK too!

Graham

They are owned by Bresser, so have been aligning some of their prices.  I wish ES started supplying the focal extenders to the European market though...

[F15Rules]

Telescope House have the ES 24mm 68 degree eyepiece for £69. That's £72.49 with postage!  So you can get a bargain in the UK too!

Graham

Looks like they are back in stock then, this was flagged a while back but they soon ran out of stock.

£69 plus shipping is a total, utter, amazing bargain when you think that a Baader Hyperion is almost £100 and the ES is a much better eyepiece IMHO.

They also I think have a customer return Maxvision 20mm in their sale dept at £52 which is also a good buy, I have one and it's a cracking ep :-)

Dave

[YKSE]

As John has pointed out, lateral colours are presented almost in all SWA/UWA/XWA eyepieces to different extends,  as discussed here.

[callisto]

Telescope House have the ES 24mm 68 degree eyepiece for £69. That's £72.49 with postage!  So you can get a bargain in the UK too!

Graham

Had to press the "buy it now" button 

[Telescope40]

Hello all.   Very interesting read.   Already had the ES  MV 24mm 68 degree EP. More than happy with it.  Fraid after seeing Dave's (F15's) last comments,  I have had to grab the customer return 20mm at TH. OOPS

Just trying to decide on a 82 degree EP.  11mm or 8.8mm are in the firing line.

Regards to all   John

[Roy Challen]

Hello all. Very interesting read. Already had the ES MV 24mm 68 degree EP. More than happy with it. Fraid after seeing Dave's (F15's) last comments, I have had to grab the customer return 20mm at TH. OOPS

Just trying to decide on a 82 degree EP. 11mm or 8.8mm are in the firing line.

Regards to all John

There's an 11mm ES 82* in the classifieds at the mo...

[alan potts]

Many say it is their best in the range, interesting it was one that was not in the Meade UWA range.

Alan

[F15Rules]

Believe it or not we had a clear sky last night so I wheeled out "Andromeda", my 5" D&G F15 refractor complete with Moonlite focuser to try out the ES/Maxvision eps I've acquired in the  past couple of months. I was particularly interested in the ES24mm 68 as it was the subject of much debate in this thread. 

It wasn't a long test but I looked through the following eyepieces at targets including Vega, the Double Double near Vega, Albireo and the Double Cluster in Casseopeia. Eyepieces were:

ES 6.7mm 82 deg

Maxvision 20mm 68

ES 24mm 68

ES34mm 68

I started with the longest focal length first and was specifically looking at field sharpness from centre to edge of the field.

The ES34mm and ES6.7mm showed no appreciable distortion in the D&G  - both were sharp virtually to the very edge.

The MV20mm was sharp over c 95% of the field as best as I could judge.

The ES24mm was sharp over c92=93% % of the field, ie very slightly less than the 20mm

So depending on your point of view, ie Glass half full, glass half empty, you could say that the ES24mm was the weakest performing in terms of the field of view, or that the ES34 and 6.7 were the best. In fact, being an 82deg field, the 6.7mm was arguably the best performing, and the view of the double double, giving x284, was stunning, twin little bulls eyes at right angle orientation of each pair, and remaining very sharp almost to the very edge of the field. This is a great high power eyepiece! (and the scope ain't bad, either!  

Being a born optimist myself, I'd say that all of the above eyepieces are great performers in my scopes, and all represent great value for money - none more so than the 24mm for which I paid just over £70 brand new.

I'm  a happy bunny!  

Dave

[John]

Good stuff Dave

What eyepieces would not be sharp to the edge at F/15 though ? - you would hope that most would be.

Letting a tightish double star drift right to the field stop, as you did, is a good test of edge performance I reckon. It's one I certainly use quite a lot

[Mark at Beaufort]

Nice report Dave. I used the ES 24mm 68 degree last night in the Orion VX8 and I was happy with its performance viewing the Veil with an Astronomics O-III filter. I am interested in your comment about the ES 6.7mm - I have the 4.7mm, 8.8mm and 14mm  so I was thinking about the 6.7mm and 11mm. I think your comment might have persuaded me to buy it..

[F15Rules]

Hi John

Of course you are right, an F15 is very forgiving to eyepieces and that's why I doubt that for me the cost to performance benefit of upgrading to say Televue Panoptics or Naglers would be questionable to say the least.

Mark, I've been a long time fan of ortho's as the traditionally best, simple (fewer glass elements) eyepieces for high power observing. It was a review I found here on SGL that made me think about the ES6.7mm, on the back of my hood experiences with the other EPs in the range. Although not a big fan of 82degree fields normally, I was just amazed at the views I saw, of familiar objects which I'd always seen in narrow fields, but were now shown in great detail but framed in a very pleasing field with other stars adding to the overall view.

I paid about £108 new for the 6.7mm, and bearing in mind a new BGO cost c£75 when new, and given the much more comfortable view and eye relief of the ES, yet with equal sharpness of image as the BGO, I see the ES as a bargain at the price.if you buy one Mark I hope you like it as much as I do:-).

Dave

[alan potts]

Now I have had a chance to catch up, nice report on the 25mm from Spain and I believe  enough to keep 500 quid of my dosh in the bank, so many thanks for the frank and honest report.

Dave,

On the F15 test report, nice piece of work but F15 is very kind to everything, I had the Meade versions in my F10 and it was about the same but don't try it at F4.3 the wheels come off and roll away.

Alan

[John]

Hope you had a nice trip Alan

Dave,

On the F15 test report, nice piece of work but F15 is very kind to everything, I had the Meade versions in my F10 and it was about the same but don't try it at F4.3 the wheels come off and roll away.

Alan

I can't see Dave changing his user name to F4.3Rules anytime soon somehow !

[F15Rules]

Hope you had a nice trip Alan

I can't see Dave changing his user name to F4.3Rules anytime soon somehow !

 Too right, John  !

Although as I have been known to go to as fast a scope as F8 (      ), maybe I should consider a change to something like "F-longish-Rules"?  .

Alan, completely take your point about F4 etc, and those uber fast ratios are completely outside of my experience. Maybe one day, in retirement, I might dabble in the dark arts of fat, short BIG dobs!  .

Looking at what we were asked to pay for any half decent eyepieces in the late 80s/90s, it really is amazing the quality of kit we can now buy for very modest cost. As an example I remember in the early 90s seeing ads for the Vixen SP102M 4" frac on a GP mount (truly great bit of kit) at a price of approaching £1000, which was a LOT of cash to most of us then. Now, you can buy a bigger Bresser 5" F9.5 frac on an EQ5 class mount for c £500 (http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/new_bresser_messier_refractor_ar_127l_on_exos_2_mount.html)

which, taking into account real terms inflation etc is a remarkable difference. We're lucky to have so much choice..

Dave