Tree house observatory

[houston]

With ballustrade around (whisky)

[JED-E3]

You could use some steel guy ropes anchored into the ground, remove them during the day, winch them tight when you want to use the observatory. It would add a lot of stability without too much expense.

[Treeden]

Even with five trunks to work with, I'm not sure you would have enough rigidity for imaging... unless you design it in from the beginning with bracing and reinforcing to the ground? 

I do think it's a great idea though!    You could certainly build yourself a very cool observing platform.  Have a look a some of these ideas....

20 Creative Tree House Design Ideas

Custom Tree House Plans

15 Amazing Tree Houses

What a great project idea! 

[Gina]

I'd give the platform a try but I hadn't though about planning permission - could be a worse no-no than stability.  Without branches to catch the wind I think stability might not be as bad as some people think though admittedly at that FL you're really pushing it.  I'm afraid you do have to think about appearance - not for yourself but your neighbours.  That's why planning permission exists.

Have to say, I love outlandish designs - something different.  Weird and eccentric - that's me   I like watching Grand Designs on TV some of it is really fantastic and all of it quirky

[Treeden]

.... then again, with my username I would like it wouldn't I! 

[Mukv]

Greetings

This plan has a hidden agenda!!!

First you construct a very well appointed observatory mid way up the selected tree making sure of excellent views of all parts of the sky!

second you collect several weeks of data images to compare to the ones from your mobile tripod configuration,

Third conclude you need to reinforce the tree with more robust concrete truss / bracing to achieve the same level of results as the tripod 

Final action is to remove the slowly dying tree to protect the new observatory!

logic !

Andy

[JamesF]

I've built a tree house for my children about ten feet off the ground supported by three sycamore trunks larger than the ones you're talking about, and a 6" post concreted several feet deep into the ground.  The trees and post support a frame which the tree house itself is lashed to allowing the trees to move (which needs to be possible) without tearing the house apart.

No way is it stable enough for imaging from, especially at 2800mm focal length.

You're also talking about putting a very large amount of wind resistance on the end of some very large levers.  I think there's a serious risk that you'd find the whole lot on the ground when the first serious storm came.

Depending on the species of tree I might be tempted to poll some of them or lay them into a hedge to get them out of the way.  Unless they're sycamores, in which case nuke the lot from orbit.  Then hide a normal obsy behind an evergreen or beech hedge

James

[JohnC64]

Without wanting to put a damper on things.  You are trying to focus the light from a star millions of light years away onto a  pixel on a camera that is say 5um wide though a focal length of  nearly 3m.  And when the slightest breeze blows through the tree, it will do what is natural for a tree to do and sway, My recommendation would be to do the most practical thing and buy a log burner.   Although its a seriously cool idea to have a tree house obsy.

Edit .  assuming you want to do imaging. 

[Sp@ce_d]

You could always get some tips from NASA

http://science.nasa.gov/missions/kao/

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[Tinker1947]

Using a C11 @ 2800mm is tricky with all but the most stable mounts, even with the stable mount just a usb lead waving about between the scope and the mount will upset tracking leading to blobby stars, so trying this on the top of some tree trunks on decking is either a belated 1st of April Hoax or just somebody with no understanding of Astrophotography....

[x6gas]

Using a C11 @ 2800mm is tricky with all but the most stable mounts, even with the stable mount just a usb lead waving about between the scope and the mount will upset tracking leading to blobby stars, so trying this on the top of some tree trunks on decking is either a belated 1st of April Hoax or just somebody with no understanding of Astrophotography....

Oh Tinker, where's your pioneering spirit?  If we all had that attitude then we'd all still be living in the trees!

As it happens I do have some understanding of AP, though I'm still learning.  It's not an April Fool's joke, though. although I don't really expect to be able to image at 2.8m...

[x6gas]

You could always get some tips from NASA

http://science.nasa.gov/missions/kao/

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Now that is seriously impressive (and a new one on me).

So all I need is their:

• vibration isolation system
• spherical air bearing
• gyro-stabilization system
• video star tracker

Then it sounds like I could hang my imaging rig on a piece of string!  What the heck is a spherical air bearing?

[ollypenrice]

I can't see this working. At a short focal length I think you might well get away with it but polar alignment will surely need redoing very regularly. (For all I know that might be twice a night!)

At 2.8 metres the situation becomes desperate. I have only imaged at 2.4 metres using an excellent Mesu sitting of five tonnes of concrete. But it's worse than that. All your cameras have small pixels and even binned 2x2 they are all going to give fine resolution. Great, but fine resolution needs even finer tracking precision.

Olly

[x6gas]

Et tu, Olly?

[Martin-Devon]

Ian, I certainly applaud your innovation here - the tree house obsy might work, although there are several aspects which will be challenging as already outlined by others. At the very least i think it may be worthwhile to get a structural engineer around to discuss the plans, get feedback, and debate ways to stabilise further the structure if needed. It's not without risk though as you are fully aware.

In your situation, there are three options I'd put high on my list:- (1) ercting a summerhouse or similar so your partner is happy, in which the roof slides back so that it doubles up as an obsy, this would couple up with pruning of tree branches to open up channels of sky for 2-3 hours at a time across key areas you want to image across, (2) discuss with a neighbouring farmer the possibility of erecting a proper purpose-built obsy in a field close to your house, assuming acceptable financial terms could be arranged you could then tinker around with the obsy at ease and even then run it remotely if you wished from the comfort of your own house, and (3) taking the last suggestion to the next level, just go fully remote and buy-into time allocations on the commercial purpose-built imaging operations in Spain, France, Arizona etc - an increasing number of folks are doing this now and have good experiences.  

I fully recognize your dilemma though and hope you can reach a good outcome. I've only recently had a roll-off roof obsy built, having done everything with a portable set-up for the 2 years before. I only wish now that I'd done the obsy build earlier; the joy of being able to image within less than 5 minutes of sliding the roof back is fantastic and on top of this the set-up becomes much more stable and it's easier to fine-tune and retain any subsequent optimisations.  

Martin

[Ptarmigan]

Heheee nice idea !

I fear that you are barking up the wrong tree as well as going out on a limb

But I would love to see it work !

I have a similar but perhaps not quite as severe a situation here with a load of ginormous beech trees, my only view from an observatory position is the southwest quadrant so I have to tree dodge to the other side of the property or wait for the right season to bring the object into view.

Reading through the thread (yes I know the limb joke has already worn thin ) I was going to suggest a highly responsive guide system with some very fast very powerfull servos to track the sway, sort of PHD on steroids ! That may already be covered in the NASA article.

Then I thought about balustrades and fearing that you could fall between them I wonder about needing a bannister as well, or at least, a guard rail :)

But the really big drawback is what a dreadfull thing to do to a loverly lime tree !

And if it didnt work you would then have to look out for the rest of its life (or yours !! ) on a decapitated monstrosity that would no doubt have a short life remaining

So then you would have to chop the whole thing down , , ,

oh look , , ,

a solution , ,

chop it down now before it dies of dutch observatory disease ! LOL !

[Mr TamiyaCowboy]

Star gazing party, in mid summer with chainsaws. 

Now more serious note, some of those trees could well have perservation  orders.

So your best of asking about these first to relevent authoritys.

once you know and have marked up the preserved trees you can go about Lopping the others down.

Lime is a very nice wood to work with, so it could be ripped down and sold on ( part funding a pier/obs).

or used inside for finishing. 

Your main problems.

WIND its still going to affect the tree your sited in.

the tree grows, so your need for constant care and pruning needs taking into account.

top out a tree and your going to force all new growth low down.

Personal choice, i would check preservation on said trees, if most are not

get out the chainsaw with correct safety gear and take the tree out.

get the stumps down low, then drill a hole in the center core, add some root killer.

bag the stump over ( plastic wrap the stump) and let the chemical finish the work.

To much work ?....... nope the hard part is digging out that stump, digging round the base

cutting out all the spread roots, then getting deep enough to hack the tap root through.

then getting a motor into yead and hooking up to towbar and removing with a few more horse power.

Removal is your best point of attack. Re-use of the tree as internal cladding/flooring 

etc etc keeps costing lower. i have the same problem, just the trees are not mine lol 

so i am stuck whatever choice 

[BenDavis]

Do it! Concrete pier, problem solved. Just be carful when getting up and down at night, health and safety and all. Big mattress at the bottom maybe?Make that two!

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[Ptarmigan]

Just be carful when getting up and down at night, health and safety and all. Big mattress at the bottom maybe?Make that two!

I like it !

But that prob is already covered, ref. banisters & balustrades

especially as he will not be up and down in the night,

dusk and dawn is all that is needed ;)

A double mattress _inside_ the treehouse observatory might be a good idea for cloudy nights, cos it is probable that he will soon be banned from the matrimonial bedroom !

[Peter Drew]

I would suggest lying down in a darkened room until the idea passes. I'm no stranger to whacky ideas but it might be cheaper to change the wife.     

[laser_jock99]

Is there anywhere on your 1 acre plot that has a reasonably clear southern horizon? You don't have to have the obsy in the middle of the woods if can be on an edge that's clear.

The other option is to pick a clearish spot at the North end of you plot and fell a few trees on the south side of the obsy site. I had to fell 5 Larch trees (and dig up the stumps) to make room for the construction of my observatory in Wales. If you need a hand with the felling - give me a shout (I have a nice collection of chain saws......).

[x6gas]

In all serious - much as I love the idea - I do know that this isn't going to work.  Even though the lime tree that I pictured has five solid trunks coming from a clump at the base they sway about like billio in the wind.  Even with chopping off the branches and tying the trunks together with a solid wooden frame it would need serious truss work everywhere to stabilize a platform.  It would take next to nothing to knock the guide star out of the search box.

I was going to suggest a highly responsive guide system with some very fast very powerfull servos to track the sway, sort of PHD on steroids

I had thought about that, but you'd need impossibly short exposures on the guide star...

I basically live in a wood so I am surrounded by 50-60ft+ trees both on my property and the surrounding ones.  I do have a bit of a horizon to the South West - I tend to set up by the house and there is a lawn before a row of trees so I can see to about 30 degrees from there.  I bought the house before I got back in to astronomy so didn't give any consideration to such things!

None of the trees in my plot have preservation orders on them so I may get tree surgeon in at some point to try to take them down a bit.  There are too many to take them all out though, and to be honest I wouldn't want to.

Thanks for all the comments, though.  I'd love to think this were possible but, as others have said, without a concrete peer 10 metres tall (which would have it's own problems!) there really is no way..

[DaveS]

I don't know, but if you're that boxed in by trees, then:

1) Can you build a roof-top obsy? Though I guess the wife might object. Failing that

2) Move! Though again wifely objections might scupper that plan.

Although my situation isn't as bad, I do have tall trees blocking everything from North round to SSE. Then houses from W back round to N. I'll be glad to move, and will be taking a compass on my viewings!

[C7tsj]

I don't know, but if you're that boxed in by trees, then:

1) Can you build a roof-top obsy? Though I guess the wife might object. Failing that

2) Move! Though again wifely objections might scupper that plan.

Although my situation isn't as bad, I do have tall trees blocking everything from North round to SSE. Then houses from W back round to N. I'll be glad to move, and will be taking a compass on my viewings!

Rooftop obsy, not a bad idea. Potential issue perhaps the heat rising from the house ?

[JamesF]

Rooftop obsy, not a bad idea. Potential issue perhaps the heat rising from the house ?

It sounds as though it wouldn't work, but there seem to be quite a few varying from the architecturally astonishing to the suicidally dangerous

There were some postings some time ago with pictures of a house in Germany (I think) where someone had a roll-off roof on their house.

James