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First 2014 Jupiter, GRS & Ganymede, 07.01.14

theo

By theo
in Imaging - Planetary

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catman161

catman161

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Right. So I assume you somehow (maybe using virtual dub??) cut the avi file to create a separate avi for the moon and the another for the planet? Then process the two Avis in AS!2-Am I correct? Sorry for questions again but I am keen to learn and progress :)

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theo

theo

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Right. So I assume you somehow (maybe using virtual dub??) cut the avi file to create a separate avi for the moon and the another for the planet? Then process the two Avis in AS!2-Am I correct? Sorry for questions again but I am keen to learn and progress :)

No don't need to cut the AVI, just run the same file through the stacking software twice. Align on the planet for one run snd then align on the moon only for the second run. Then process each as you would normally. These two images can then be layered together in a layers based photo editing software such as Photoshop or Gimp.

Pete

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neil phillips

neil phillips

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Thanks Neil.

Its so difficult to evaluate your scopes when the conditions you have been experiencing haven't been the best. So many things can cause you to start thinking its down to the scope. Have you managed to image with both scopes during the same session yet? Would be interested in seeing a comparison under the same conditions / similar time period.

Pete

Not Really Pete. I also belive its just been bad to terrible seeing when the Orions been out. But a good suggestion from you. I might have to start trying that. But can you imagine taking all this gear out. It is daunting. I know what it feels like to be flying though. Enjoy it Pete. its a great feeling knowing your going to get Good shots.  

My time will come. And I don't think a couple of those 12" shots ive done are that bad actually. But I suppose over the years people expect a lot of you. What with health problems and poor weather making the chances much thinner on the ground, you can see how things can change. I might use A Ronchi grating at some point and have a look at both.

You have inspired me with your 12" optics, At that size Pete I think a good SCT is likely better. The 12" Skywatcher is long and really weighs a ton. ( I know yours is not light by any means ) But being shorter does help I am sure, and with excellent optics which you clearly have, I reckon your scope is a  better bet than a 300p. I would say this, I wonder what the 300p would do in your hands at your location ? Likely better than my location I am sure. But I wonder how it would fair against your SCT ?

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SnakeyJ

SnakeyJ

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You have inspired me with your 12" optics, At that size Pete I think a good SCT is likely better. The 12" Skywatcher is long and really weighs a ton. ( I know yours is not light by any means ) But being shorter does help I am sure, and with excellent optics which you clearly have, I reckon your scope is a  better bet than a 300p. I would say this, I wonder what the 300p would do in your hands at your location ? Likely better than my location I am sure. But I wonder how it would fair against your SCT ?

I haven't checked, but pretty sure the LX200 and SW300P will be close in weight, so it would be interesting to see how the smaller obstruction in newt versus longer focal length.   

No doubt optical quality and darker skies count.  Though I suspect the biggest single factor here is the observatory, less time to setup, cool and collimate - more time to image - with the added advantage of a quick start with minimal effort, to get out and exploit shorter gaps in the cloud!

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Virgoman

Virgoman

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Another humdinger of an image Pete. Literally text book stuff (as in an illustration) and the detail on Ganymede......ouch!

                                  Best regards,

                                                         Ralph

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neil phillips

neil phillips

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I haven't checked, but pretty sure the LX200 and SW300P will be close in weight, so it would be interesting to see how the smaller obstruction in newt versus longer focal length.   

No doubt optical quality and darker skies count.  Though I suspect the biggest single factor here is the observatory, less time to setup, cool and collimate - more time to image - with the added advantage of a quick start with minimal effort, to get out and exploit shorter gaps in the cloud!

Add to that the see saw effect of a long tube in wind. Wind reduction with a obs around the scope. Weight distribution being much more central and with less flex than a long tube. ( mount vibration stress )  Dark skies I would see as the least impact of any of this Jake. ( we are talking planetary not deepsky )  Light pollution doesn't effect planetary that much I don't believe.

Having a location not surrounded by houses, with heat plumes and disturbed local area, in very cold weather, causing a cold heat shock, with peoples central heating pouring out of roofs. Is also another reason I think Petes  images are better and more consistent. The problem of setting up is true now Jake, as I am getting older with health problems. But years gone by. I just put up with it and got out a lot more. So not so much a problem for younger fitter folk. But old geezers, do suffer compared to a obs for sure.

Though I will agree, its easier to snatch shots in the UK  with the fleeting chances we are getting. Cooldown is a advantage for sure Jake. Interestingly Pete. I am thinking of trying the colour version of this chip. To wet my feet. having both Mono and a single shot camera. could help add diversity. I will keep the 618 DMK

I wonder if at lower powers I could achieve high frame rates with the 300p. like you are getting Pete. Though the colour chip will not be as sensitive. Great for motion films.

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theo

theo

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Add to that the see saw effect of a long tube in wind. Wind reduction with a obs around the scope. Weight distribution being much more central and with less flex than a long tube. ( mount vibration stress ) Dark skies I would see as the least impact of any of this Jake. ( we are talking planetary not deepsky ) Light pollution doesn't effect planetary that much I don't believe.

Having a location not surrounded by houses, with heat plumes and disturbed local area, in very cold weather, causing a cold heat shock, with peoples central heating pouring out of roofs. Is also another reason I think Petes images are better and more consistent. The problem of setting up is true now Jake, as I am getting older with health problems. But years gone by. I just put up with it and got out a lot more. So not so much a problem for younger fitter folk. But old geezers, do suffer compared to a obs for sure.

Though I will agree, its easier to snatch shots in the UK with the fleeting chances we are getting. Cooldown is a advantage for sure Jake. Interestingly Pete. I am thinking of trying the colour version of this chip. To wet my feet. having both Mono and a single shot camera. could help add diversity. I will keep the 618 DMK

I wonder if at lower powers I could achieve high frame rates with the 300p. like you are getting Pete. Though the colour chip will not be as sensitive. Great for motion films.

I'm pretty sure you could hit the high frame count with the colour cam and the 300p Neil. Certainly at lower powers.

Regards the obs vs no obs then totally agree that there are some key factors here as you know only too wel.l The main one for me would be the number of opportunities for imaging being more frequent during the typical weather at this time of year. Of course cooling becomes less of an issue as does wind disturbace though a roll of roof is not as protected here as a dome would be.

Your earlier point about seeing how your scope would cope under my skies would certainly be interesting. If you are ever passing through this neck of the woods then let me know!!

Pete

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neil phillips

neil phillips

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The other night I was clocking 60fps at f24 with 40% gain using the colour QHY which image scale wise is f36 with the DFK/DMK.

Your the man who has the info on this cam Stuart. Its so tempting to want the mono cam too though. What with the lunar side to my imaging. And that massive chip. But two mono cameras makes no sense. I reckon a new camera will be on the way at some point,  I could hear it from  un sung bird, read it somewhere too.

So I could get used to the new software. Having the DMK as a backup incase of teething troubles. ( You never know )  then perhaps sell them both if a new camera really was a even greater leap. Which it will have to be to encourage others to switch again. Man this field is changing fast lately. I cant keep up.

60 fps I am already at Stuart. I was hoping more around the 100 mark with a straight 3x celestron no tube ? But you know more about how this camera acts.

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neil phillips

neil phillips

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I'm pretty sure you could hit the high frame count with the colour cam and the 300p Neil. Certainly at lower powers.

Regards the obs vs no obs then totally agree that there are some key factors here as you know only too wel.l The main one for me would be the number of opportunities for imaging being more frequent during the typical weather at this time of year. Of course cooling becomes less of an issue as does wind disturbace though a roll of roof is not as protected here as a dome would be.

Your earlier point about seeing how your scope would cope under my skies would certainly be interesting. If you are ever passing through this neck of the woods then let me know!!

Pete

It is interesting isn't it Pete. Especially for those on a budget though £1600 still aint cheap when you factor in the mount. ( actually about a grand my end as I got it cheap )

I know something. if you ever want to swap. I am your man :grin:

Somehow I think you will stick with the Meade. Hey I would too. Its a killer scope. in killer hands.

Ive been realizing something recently. Your use of layer masks to get that natural feel is very well done. Ive not done this. Trying to learn how to do it in gimp. As I do the planets moon processes differently.  I don't have photoshop.  So its Gimp I will have to figure out. So far I haven't figured it out. But ive only just started looking into it. Its not something ive really needed. But  Would be good for Mars Pete with its bad edge problem. And I think if you are using it on Jupiter, which  I reckon you are.  its class processing. it does work nicely. I think you've learned this technique well. I am guessing maybe from your deepsky work ?

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theo

theo

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It is interesting isn't it Pete. Especially for those on a budget though £1600 still aint cheap when you factor in the mount. ( actually about a grand my end as I got it cheap )

I know something. if you ever want to swap. I am your man :grin:

Somehow I think you will stick with the Meade. Hey I would too. Its a killer scope. in killer hands.

Ive been realizing something recently. Your use of layer masks to get that natural feel is very well done. Ive not done this. Trying to learn how to do it in gimp. As I do the planets moon processes differently.  I don't have photoshop.  So its Gimp I will have to figure out. So far I haven't figured it out. But ive only just started looking into it. Its not something ive really needed. But  Would be good for Mars Pete with its bad edge problem. And I think if you are using it on Jupiter, which  I reckon you are.  its class processing. it does work nicely. I think you've learned this technique well. I am guessing maybe from your deepsky work ?

Layer masking, yes It's a really useful and powerful tool Neil and well worth getting to grips with. As you rightly say I have and do use this technique a lot for deep sky work and also on the planets as well. It enables you to have a lot of flexibility with any of the edits you apply to your images.  I do use photoshop for all my processing so i'm not familiar with Gimp but I believe it works in a similar way.

Initially the whole concept of layer masking can be a little confusing to get your head around but actually when you get into it it's actually quite simple but it has taken me a while to really use the masks to their maximum potential.

A good thing to remember is the phrase 'white reveals & black conceals' . In essence a 'layer' could be a copy of the original background image with different processing applied. If you then apply a 'reveal all' mask this will show all the edits in the upper layer. At the opposite end a 'hide all' mask will conceal all the edits in the upper layer. You then have the ability to use a paint brush to literally paint over the mask to reveal or hide only the parts of the edits you want to show. You can also change the opacity of the paint brush so it will reveal or conceal a percentager of the edit. And so it goes on. This is the basic theory anyway, quite a lot more can be done with these tools!! You may already know this Neil so apologies if i'm telling you things you are well aware of!!

I would recommend searching for online tutes on Youtube for Gimp or PS. I'm sure there are lots on there. Let me know how you get on.

Pete

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theo

theo

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Hi Pete, ... as always, superb image..... The seeing your location seems to be consistently better than in Yeovil.

I'm beginning to warm to the idea of Barbados....

Bud

Many thanks Bud. 

Yes, imaging in the warm sounds good too!! :grin:

Pete

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neil phillips

neil phillips

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Layer masking, yes It's a really useful and powerful tool Neil and well worth getting to grips with. As you rightly say I have and do use this technique a lot for deep sky work and also on the planets as well. It enables you to have a lot of flexibility with any of the edits you apply to your images.  I do use photoshop for all my processing so i'm not familiar with Gimp but I believe it works in a similar way.

Initially the whole concept of layer masking can be a little confusing to get your head around but actually when you get into it it's actually quite simple but it has taken me a while to really use the masks to their maximum potential.

A good thing to remember is the phrase 'white reveals & black conceals' . In essence a 'layer' could be a copy of the original background image with different processing applied. If you then apply a 'reveal all' mask this will show all the edits in the upper layer. At the opposite end a 'hide all' mask will conceal all the edits in the upper layer. You then have the ability to use a paint brush to literally paint over the mask to reveal or hide only the parts of the edits you want to show. You can also change the opacity of the paint brush so it will reveal or conceal a percentager of the edit. And so it goes on. This is the basic theory anyway, quite a lot more can be done with these tools!! You may already know this Neil so apologies if i'm telling you things you are well aware of!!

I would recommend searching for online tutes on Youtube for Gimp or PS. I'm sure there are lots on there. Let me know how you get on.

Pete

No Pete its not something ive ever used. It always struck me as unnecessary. But I think I am changing my mind about that.  So anything you mention, is very interesting, As clearly its something you have mastered. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.

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