Refractors... how many do you need?

[wookie1965]

I have 3 two f10s and a f9. 3 the F10s are I think classics a Tal 100rs and a Celestron C-102 my newer model if you can call it that is a Meade 127 emc which I have put a skywatcher dual speed focuser on. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by wookie1965

[badhex]

On 03/12/2021 at 21:04, Ags said:

I have noticed that many refractor owners seem to become refractor collectors, having a range of scopes in various focal lengths and ratios. I can't imagine going to those extremes, but whenever I look at my lovely little Zenithstar 66, I think about getting another one. A 100 mm ED doublet would be nice. But then I would need to keep the ZS66 for travel, so maybe an F6 ED80 would maximise aperture while retaining travel capability? But that's a compromise, and astronomy is NOT the art of compromise (you only have to look at the ELT to see that).

So assuming I go for 100 mm option, is the Altair Ascent really that good? Price is no way to judge a scope, but it is a lot cheaper than a Tak, and there has to be a reason?

 

Am in a reasonably similar situation to you @Ags, I think.

I have had an Evostar 80ED for ages but it has rarely seen use. Partly, this is because of mounting issues. Initially it was too heavy for my old manual EQ mount, and when I got back into astronomy after a break, I fell in love with small widefield fracs and got an AZ-GTi and then my beloved ZS73, then later an AZT6 for full manual mode. Sadly I feel the 80ED is undermounted on both of those mounts, and eventually I did get a Skytee 2 but I also feel it's not worth getting out the Skytee for the minimal extra aperture.

Enter the Starfield 102 - or for us European mainlanders, the TS version, Photoline 102 (actually apart from the garish silver trim and prefitted finder shoe, the TS version is identical to the Starfield and a touch cheaper). I made the mistake of reading a number of threads about the Starfield, and it has given me a  serious itch.

Actually the specific thing which piques my interest has been mentioned by several around the forum for many similar sized scopes, but summarised nicely by @John

Quote

Refractors of this specification are just so versatile, with the ability to go from a 4 degree true field to 200x plus with just an eyepiece change and so many affordable mounts will hold them solidly and stably, at least for visual use.

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by badhex

[Ags]

The AZT6 seems to hold my C6 pretty well - I am surprised it's not up to holding an ED80? I do plan to get an AZ5 eventually, but the AZT6 does so well I don't really need  a replacement. I think I have settled on getting an ED 102 eventually, although I will see what comes up on the second-hand market.

[ollypenrice]

As an absolute minimum you need three, small, medium and large.  That much is obvious to anybody.  Plus one for solar. Oh, and to avoid having to faff around taking cameras on and off and re-balancing between AP and visual, you need two copies of the first three. Still, that's only seven. You'll obviously need a spotter for wildlife, so that's eight. Plus three guidescopes, making eleven. And a brass antique for the lounge. Twelve. And there we are, the round dozen.

Plus a spare.

Olly

[Stu]

8 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

As an absolute minimum you need three, small, medium and large.  That much is obvious to anybody.  Plus one for solar. Oh, and to avoid having to faff around taking cameras on and off and re-balancing between AP and visual, you need two copies of the first three. Still, that's only seven. You'll obviously need a spotter for wildlife, so that's eight. Plus three guidescopes, making eleven. And a brass antique for the lounge. Twelve. And there we are, the round dozen.

Plus a spare.

Olly

Listen to this man, he speaks wisely…

I can look through four simultaneously so that’s the bare minimum I would need.

[badhex]

1 hour ago, Ags said:

The AZT6 seems to hold my C6 pretty well - I am surprised it's not up to holding an ED80? I do plan to get an AZ5 eventually, but the AZT6 does so well I don't really need  a replacement. I think I have settled on getting an ED 102 eventually, although I will see what comes up on the second-hand market.

In fairness, "undermounted" is probably not totally accurate for the AZT6. It's more that I found the ALT clutch to be a bit finicky. When slackened off enough to a gentle push I found it a bit wobbly with the longer tube, but don't seem to have the same issue with my much shorter ZS73 or my C5. 

[Ags]

Are you using a counterweight? I find adding a counterweight makes the AZT6 smoother in both Alt and Az.

What tripod are you using? Mine is on a Berlebach Report,  which seems pretty solid.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Ags

[Piero]

I currently have 2 refractors: a TV-60 f/6 and a Tak FC100 f/7.4. Between the two, the Tak is used 99% of the time nowadays. 

Having said this, my main telescope is a reflector and I would be satisfied with just that plus the TV-60. The problem for me is solar observing. The 100mm is largely better than the 60mm on this and the reflector cannot be used for this. 

[neil phillips]

As many as im allowed 🤣  had four recently. Just two now. But the other two somehow transformed into a classical cassegrain. Overnight. 👌

Edited December 5, 2021 by neil phillips

[callisto]

I just have one at the moment ( I know, I know 🙄), my trusty Vixen 80M Achro...love it 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

4 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

As an absolute minimum you need three, small, medium and large.  That much is obvious to anybody.  Plus one for solar. Oh, and to avoid having to faff around taking cameras on and off and re-balancing between AP and visual, you need two copies of the first three. Still, that's only seven. You'll obviously need a spotter for wildlife, so that's eight. Plus three guidescopes, making eleven. And a brass antique for the lounge. Twelve. And there we are, the round dozen.

Plus a spare.

Olly

If this is the gold standard then expect a neatly folded pile of clothes & a note left on Formby beach. Does FLO deliver to Brazil?

[ollypenrice]

3 hours ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

If this is the gold standard then expect a neatly folded pile of clothes & a note left on Formby beach. Does FLO deliver to Brazil?

Formby, eh? That takes me back. I lived in Southport when very young and my first taste of school was in Ainsdale.

Olly

[badhex]

6 hours ago, Ags said:

Are you using a counterweight? I find adding a counterweight makes the AZT6 smoother in both Alt and Az.

What tripod are you using? Mine is on a Berlebach Report,  which seems pretty solid.

I do have a counterweight which I've used with the AZT6 and ZS73 (and C5 IIRC) but I can't remember if I've tried it with the 80ED. I potentially gave up quite quickly given that the optics on the ZS73 are so good it probably outperforms the 80ED anyway.

The issue occurs as a sort of shift/looseness when the Alt clutch is slackened off enough to push it to a new location. This means you have to push it further than intended in to get it to settle in the right place. Will have to give it a go with the CW to see if I makes any difference. 

Tripod is probably also a potential culprit for vibration issues at higher powers, as it is the black and white skywatcher tube leg tripod - fine for the ZS73/C5 but probably pushing it for anything bigger. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by badhex

[Ags]

I think I see where we differ. I don't see the AZT6 Alt cluch as a clutch, but just as variable friction. I adjust it at the beginning of the session then I leave it alone. 

[badhex]

15 minutes ago, Ags said:

I adjust it at the beginning of the session then I leave it alone. 

Ah yeah, sorry just using clutch generically, but you're right, it is variable friction. I do only set it once, but when loose enough to push it has this issue - but only with the 80ED 🤔

[badhex]

Anyway - sorry! Massive sidetrack from the original topic 😬

[Franklin]

3 hours ago, Ags said:

I don't see the AZT6 Alt cluch as a clutch, but just as variable friction

When I used my AZT6 with an 80ED it worked very well. The azimuth was always left to free-wheel and the altitude tightened slightly as the scope was pointed closer to the zenith.

Superb little mount IMO.

But back to the original thread, I don't believe there is such a thing as too many refractors. Who does?

Edited December 5, 2021 by Franklin

[StarryEyed]

Sell it buy a TAK 76. Its all of those scopes in one tube and you'll probably never want to sell it. 

[Deadlake]

If you own multiple frac's which one do you use the most? I use a 130 mm because with an AZ100 it's tow trips to get it setup.

I'd like a reflector scope, but given my life if I can get more then one hour outside I count myself lucky. I suspect if I bought a reflector it would be placed outside and before it would accumulate I would go back inside.

Hence for now, and until the cloud cover clears I will stick with refractors... 

[KP82]

My original plan was to have two: one small 3" portable widefield and the other medium size 4 - 5" for some closer up views and planetary. But I've now ended up with three refractors. I'm lazy and don't want to keep swapping between visual and imaging on the 115 so I've decided to keep the 107 for visual leaving the 115 permanently set up with the riccardi reducer. 

I thought about getting a 6" before but decided not to pursue such a setup because of the amount of effort required to put everything together everytime I want to use it (if I ever get to build my own obs, I might reconsider). A dob is much better suited as my larger aperture scope.

[John]

2 hours ago, Deadlake said:

If you own multiple frac's which one do you use the most?

 

I use my 100mm and 120mm refractors the most (probably equally as much) and then my 130mm and 102mm about half as much.

The 100mm has practically no cool down time before giving great images so that one is the "grab and go" default.

 

[banjaxed]

19 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

Formby, eh? That takes me back. I lived in Southport when very young and my first taste of school was in Ainsdale.

Olly

I have lived in Formby for the last 40 years, but it is not the same little village now.

[Mach13]

Hmmm  🤔 I'm wondering if the answer for this topic is the same response to how many guitars does a guitar player need?   Ans: Just one more! 😅

At the moment I have more guitars than OTAs  but I'm defo building an accumulation of additional' bits n pieces 🙂

Edited December 6, 2021 by Mach13

[Franklin]

51 minutes ago, Mach13 said:

how many guitars does a guitar player need?

Oh no, not another thread thrown off topic by musical astronomers.😀

[JeremyS]

35 minutes ago, Franklin said:

Oh no, not another thread thrown off topic by musical astronomers.😀

I also see a couple of mentions of Formby. Ukuleles in that case, I presume 🤔