Cheat!?

[tooth_dr]

People say the technology scares them. I'm the opposite. I've a dob, a selection of finder scopes and a book on turning left at something called Orion, and I've yet to go out with it. That's a lie - the first couple of night after I bought it I set it up at the front door and looked at Saturn and the moon for an hour both nights. The last time I was out manually Star hopping was many years ago and I find it's confusing - some of the pages had the star chart printed back to front, and some the the right way round etc. Maybe there is an easier way but for now I'll use Goto...

 

[Astro Imp]

15 minutes ago, ronin said:

Does she have sat-nav in her car ? Use a remote for the TV ? Does her phone tell her of a text or email without her specifically lookng if anything has arrived. They are all automatic, and there are many, many others.

No sat-nav and the only phone she has is a simple pay as you go used for calls only.

[iPeace]

If you really need a GoTo to find a specific target, then how enjoyable can it really be to actually look at?

[DaveS]

Some things we image are barely visible to the eye, or even totally invisible.

[niallk]

I have push to on my 15": I definitely feel like I'm cheating

I did used to get a great sense of accomplishment with my 10" finding a new target, and I'm missing out on that. I was also getting more familiar with the sky throughout the year.

Now: I see lots more, and I spend more time on individual objects.  I can pick out fainter targets from my deep sky atlas, and get straight on them.  I've moved from spending most of my time finding, to most of my time observing.

I'm going to keep on cheating...

[barkis]

We have to embrace technology, in whatever form it is presented to us.            Of course it has revolutionised Astronomy, and certainly in the Realm of Sky photography. Some of us can go back many years,. Astro. Photography depended largely on manual guiding on a guide star, usually with guidescope with a X3 focal length longer than the imaging instrument.  Believe me, sitting in the dark, trying to keep a star in the little box in the guiding eyepiece, a box formed by a parallel pair of hairs, backlit by a 2.5 watt red painted bulb, was a labour of love. Stepper motors on R A, and Dec. Axis powered through a controller, was considered luxury. Most of the elements home made, crude,  but determination to succeed was key.    Unfortunately, one's excitement soon turned to dismay when the home processed film presented you with a not so great result. Results far removed from the. Stuff Dr. David Malin was turning out.           The disappointments never lasted, because turning to visual observations always repaired the sadness one might feel. Back then, just getting the eye on a resolved Globular Cluster,. A Planetary Neb. Double Stars, Galaxies, and many other objects, including our fantastic Moon, always lifted any gloom..  There is joy in both Observational, and Photography. Moreso in this modern era.   I enjoyed both in my early years as an Amateur,. And everyone for sure, must be ecstatic with the technology available today.  Aperture Fever is not a disease, It's a must, whether Imager, or Observer, or both,. If you can spare the funds, then go big, as big as you can afford, without harming the  piggy bank.

 

 

 

[John]

It's a hobby though so we don't have to embrace and use technology. It's there for those who want / need it and can be ignored and avoided by those that don't.

I'm sure that everyone who likes to use GOTO will feel that it's an important part of the hobby for them just as much as those who don't use it and don't want to will feel  quite comfortable with the way they pursue things. Each to their own as has been said

I've owned 5 or 6 GOTO equipped scopes over the years and I did use the technology so at least I know that I've tried it and make the choice not to use it now equipped with that experience.

If GOTO enables folks to participate in the hobby who would otherwise not, enables imagers to increase the productivity of the time they spend then it's benefitting the hobby as a whole so it's not a "bad" thing at all. It's just another option.

 

[cloudsweeper]

6 minutes ago, John said:

It's a hobby though so we don't have to embrace and use technology. It's there for those who want / need it and can be ignored and avoided by those that don't.

I'm sure that everyone who likes to use GOTO will feel that it's an important part of the hobby for them just as much as those who don't use it and don't want to will feel  quite comfortable with the way they pursue things. Each to their own as has been said

I've owned 5 or 6 GOTO equipped scopes over the years and I did use the technology so at least I know that I've tried it and make the choice not to use it now equipped with that experience.

If GOTO enables folks to participate in the hobby who would otherwise not, enables imagers to increase the productivity of the time they spend then it's benefitting the hobby as a whole so it's not a "bad" thing at all. It's just another option.

 

A fair and balanced perspective John - respect!

Doug.

[tomato]

This is going to sound like Grumpy Old Man, but back in the 80s I used to use setting circles and a star atlas to convince myself I was the on the invisible photo target, expose the frame then develop it the next night. First plus was if I had the target in the frame, then see if the focus and tracking were anything like.Yeah, Goto and digital are good.

[Macavity]

2 hours ago, Astro Imp said:

And no she hasn't read any of the various threads on the merits of GOTO.

I guess she can count herself LUCKY then? [teasing] 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman (?!)  

[avtaram]

I use both and enjoy both, don't even think about if it's cheating or not, it's just another option for enjoying the night sky.

Avtar

[barkis]

Cheating is such a harsh description.  I think it should be in the Censor Trap as an expletive. 

[barkis]

35 minutes ago, John said:

It's a hobby though so we don't have to embrace and use technology. It's there for those who want / need it and can be ignored and avoided by those that don't.

 

It's a free choice for all. One or the other or both.    The big plus for GoTo setups, has already been mentioned. Namely time saving for target acquisition, especially the invisible to the eye one's.

 

 

 

   

[MarsG76]

Cheating or not, well every one has their opinion on GOTO and I think it'll be split 50/50.. but during imaging if you're imaging over multiple nights, the GOTO is excellent to going back to the same location quickly and continue with imaging the object.

 

[Scooot]

Cheating is "gaining an unfair advantage" 

If part of the fun is star hopping, then using goto clearly isn't an advantage as you'd be missing out on the fun. If you don't find star hopping fun, it would be unfair if you had to use it, so fair to use goto.

Using goto therefore isn't cheating.  

[Littleguy80]

I’m yet to try a GOTO scope. The benefits are obvious. I do use SkySafari as my star atlas though. All my finding is done with a Telrad and low power eyepiece. The finding is definitely a big part of the fun for me. It adds an extra level to the sense of achievement. I spent much more time on the finding than the observing over the first few months of owning a scope. I like that I can look up and recognise constellations and know where to find objects within them. I’ve learned quite a lot of star names too. I’m sure that knowledge could have come with GOTO too. 

Whatever way you find your targets, if you’re enjoying yourself then you’re doing it right. You’re only cheating yourself if you’re not choosing the option that allows you to enjoy your hobby the most. 

[JamesF]

It's only cheating if you break the rules.  And as everyone (rightly) makes the rules for themselves, it's up to the individual to decide.

Sometimes I like to find whatever I'm looking for myself and I enjoy "the thrill of the hunt" even if it takes a while.  Other times I just want to get on the target because I want to spent the time in other ways.  Either way, whatever anyone else thinks about how I go about my hobby is irrelevant.

James

[iPeace]

8 hours ago, barkis said:

Aperture Fever is not a disease, It's a must, whether Imager, or Observer, or both,. If you can spare the funds, then go big, as big as you can afford, without harming the  piggy bank.

Unless, of course, you don't want to have to cool it. Or collimate it. Or live in it.

Just saying.

[iPeace]

8 hours ago, barkis said:

Cheating is such a harsh description.  I think it should be in the Censor Trap as an expletive. 

Goodness. Really?

So the original post would have to be something like:

"My wife then made a remark to the effect that I was acting in a way that gave me an unfair advantage. Well, she actually used a word that rhymes with 'sheeting', but I assure you all that she wasn't being naughty."

I appreciate keeping things pleasant. Truly. But surely...?

[cloudsweeper]

57 minutes ago, iPeace said:

Unless, of course, you don't want to have to cool it. Or collimate it. Or live in it.

Just saying.

....or hire a crane to move it, or erect scaffolding to look through it!! 

Doug.

[cloudsweeper]

8 hours ago, barkis said:

It's a free choice for all. One or the other or both.    The big plus for GoTo setups, has already been mentioned. Namely time saving for target acquisition, especially the invisible to the eye one's.

 

 

 

   

Yes!  I'm in with the "both" position, enjoying hopping and widefield viewing usually for brighter, easier targets, and GoTo for trickier ones. 

Another factor - sometimes it's nice to set up quickly and sweep across the sky without alignment.

Doug.

[Paz]

I think goto is all good, although so far I've never tried it myself. I like to try and find things and usually I can find things ok. I have had occasions where I can't find things and get a bit dejected and wish I had goto, but I would never admit to this!

[cloudsweeper]

1 hour ago, Paz said:

I think goto is all good, although so far I've never tried it myself. I like to try and find things and usually I can find things ok. I have had occasions where I can't find things and get a bit dejected and wish I had goto, but I would never admit to this!

When you try it, you'll really like it.  That bit of fuzz you're hunting pops up dead-centre (or almost!) in the EP - lovely!

Spending time searching - and failing - can be disheartening, true, but it has to be said that GoTo can "play up" and also cause disappointment, especially if alignment has not been done thoroughly.

Doug.

 

[Astro Imp]

I feel I must apologise, it wasn't my intention to rake over old ground but just to present some amusement by quoting someone who has absolutely no interest in our hobby.

[John]

3 minutes ago, Astro Imp said:

I feel I must apologise, it wasn't my intention to rake over old ground but just to present some amusement by quoting someone who has absolutely no interest in our hobby.

Don't worry - my other half says very similar things.

It's been the usual "full and frank" discussion but we are all in the same hobby so have much more in common than set us apart