Telescope fail

[John]

Personally I think the credit for bringing this design to the UK market should go to Lyra Optics. Greg started importing these when interest in achromats was relatively low. Altair have, to some extent, piggy backed on the market that he created, IMHO.

Clearly good scopes, whatever branding they have

I'd still not be in a hurry to praise a supplier for supplying a new scope with dust on the objective and between the elements though

[Stu]

5 minutes ago, Knighty2112 said:

I got no paper work delivered with the telescope, so nothing claiming that this serial number is unique, other than the blurb on Altair Astro's own web page for the telescope. 

That seems strange given the talk of hand made optics and individual serial numbers being signed off by an optician.......

[DRT]

8 minutes ago, Knighty2112 said:

I got no paper work delivered with the telescope, so nothing claiming that this serial number is unique, other than the blurb on Altair Astro's own web page for the telescope. 

No paperwork came with the new one I bought from RVO.

[dobbie]

Or mine from Greenwich  ( thanks fozzie) 

[Patbloke]

Don't think I got any paperwork other than receipt, but I did think it was boxed well... although I did collect her! 

[cotterless45]

Certainly a cracking scope, one of the nicest giving lovely relaxed views. Gave it a good three hour , threw every testing target at it and it just made me grin. Hope the serial number thing gets sorted.

Mate of mine just picked up the 102 f11 Lyra for £200 used. Keep an eye out for these remarkable long fracs,

Nick.

[Knighty2112]

OK, got a reply back from Telescope House over the serial number issue; when Altair Astro order a production run of these scopes, the serial numbers for each production run starts from zero again. So with any of these scopes coming from Altair Astro the serial number is only unique to the production run only that it was processed through, so in reality there will be a multiple number of scopes with the same serial number printed on them. Some others that get the same scope branded up under their own name do keep these serial numbers sequential no matter how many productions run have occurred and this number is unique to each individual telescope produced by some other branded scopes. Bottom line is with the scopes from Altair Astro the serial number is pretty meaningless really as it is only really applies to each production run only, so is not unique to every individual scope ever produced by them over the years, hence why it seems that the serial numbers never increase much past 30 anyway. 

[Fozzie]

So it is unique to the relative production run, not a sequence per item produced.... 

Really pleased that your happy with this out come, on reflection I feel like it was the right thing to raise it, but maybe should have tempered the response a bit.. Like you I was actually annoyed at the thought of a old scope being sent out, and it was a school night.. maybe wasn't overly clear in my thoughts.

Hope your new no 30 gives you some great views Gus..

Clear Skys (not that i'll see them from the rock im crawling back under!! )

Fozzie

[Oddsocks]

Good that you have an answer that is plausible....

I hope you will be able to relax a bit and enjoy the new scope now the issues have been addressed 

Did TH comment about the dust?

[Knighty2112]

18 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

So it is unique to the relative production run, not a sequence per item produced.... 

Really pleased that your happy with this out come, on reflection I feel like it was the right thing to raise it, but maybe should have tempered the response a bit.. Like you I was actually annoyed at the thought of a old scope being sent out, and it was a school night.. maybe wasn't overly clear in my thoughts.

Hope your new no 30 gives you some great views Gus..

Clear Skys (not that i'll see them from the rock im crawling back under!! )

Fozzie

Yeah, emotions always make us act first and think later. Maybe we should all be like Mr Spock and be less human with our responses first! Hehe!

Got great (but brief) views lastt night, so looking forward now to some more clear skies at some point this weekend, hopefully to be able to test it out on Saturn & Mars.  

[Knighty2112]

22 minutes ago, Oddsocks said:

Good that you have an answer that is plausible....

I hope you will be able to relax a bit and enjoy the new scope now the issues have been addressed 

Did TH comment about the dust?

No, I never raised that. To be honest it is only able to be seen with a torch shining directly into the lens. In normal daylight close up there is nothing to see anyway, so not an issue for me, although it did seem like one last night when I was more emotional about it.

[Scott]

On 8/19/2016 at 19:57, Knighty2112 said:

Yes, pretty shocking. What ever happened to pride in job? Now all it seems to be is haste only! 

in defence of couriors, and many other people that work on price per item, pride is a luxury they can no longer afford. they and their families would starve if pride of work got in the way  . 

Even in the building industry, customers want a champagne job but are only prepared to pay for sparkling wine 

[dobbie]

Thank God..that's cleared up enjoy your scope knighty and when you decide to sell it give me first dabs I need another no 30 ..

[Knighty2112]

10 minutes ago, dobbie said:

Thank God..that's cleared up enjoy your scope knighty and when you decide to sell it give me first dabs I need another no 30 ..

Will do. But if all goes well you may be waiting a very long time!  

[Tim]

I'd be very interested if anyone ever dismantles the cell then, I'm assuming the individual serial number mentioned is on a hidden part?

[DRT]

1 minute ago, Tim said:

I'd be very interested if anyone ever dismantles the cell then, I'm assuming the individual serial number mentioned is on a hidden part?

I think this is just a bad description on the AA website. If the manufacturer was putting unique numbers on these lenses it would be on everyone's blurb. I think AA have just gone a bit too far with their marketing. It was entirely accurate when they ordered the first batch, but should have been changed when they ordered the second

 

[John]

When I got my Istar 6" F/12 I was quite excited to see a serial number marked on the bezel around the lens cell. I later found out that it was actually the ZIP code of Istar's registered office in Page, Arizona and most of their objective cells have the same number marked on them

 

[Stu]

26 minutes ago, DRT said:

I think this is just a bad description on the AA website. If the manufacturer was putting unique numbers on these lenses it would be on everyone's blurb. I think AA have just gone a bit too far with their marketing. It was entirely accurate when they ordered the first batch, but should have been changed when they ordered the second

 

The trouble is, people make choices between brands depending upon the specifics of the marketing.

I would have leant towards buying an Altair version over, say a TS or even a Lyra because of the statements made about objective testing, hand made optics etc etc. If this is not a real differentiator then any brand choice goes out of the window  doesn't it?

[Knighty2112]

Hi peeps. Received an email from Nick from Altair Astro after been made aware  of this thread, so in fairness to them to I have Nick's permission to copy the email to the thread, so here it is below;

 

Dear Gus,

Thank you for buying a Starwave 102F11. I'm sorry you had difficulty with the courier and damage to the scope.

Some friends and customers drew my attention to your post on SGL which it seemed developed into a rather complex discussion about our company, so I thought I should respond to clarify matters.

The serial number is for QC purposes. It lets us link the objective lens to the batch, and the individual who made it through the Purchase Order. That lets us ensure a high quality objective repeatedly. This is a standard technique and many companies do the same. I'll give you some background which you may find of interest seeing there's so much comment on this. Companies send us products all the time, some good and some poor. If I could only show you the "objects" I have been sent for want of a better word - for they are not telescopes!

Years ago, I was sent one of these scopes in a previous incarnation, in the hope that we would order them. I could tell the objective had potential, but it had a little way to go. I felt the whole system was let down by spacing issues and some tilt caused but the mounting, but it had potential. It seemed a matter of additional QC steps during final lens-assembly and mounting to remedy this. I didn't bother with the product at the time which was probably a missed opportunity. I admit I wasn't really convinced it would work out. Although I really like long focus achromats, I was under the impression that the market was so biased towards ED and APO scopes, that Achromats were "old hat" as it were. Some time passed, and I became busy with other products. Then, quite a while later, I was contacted by the manufacturer again, and they asked me if I was interested in ordering. I explained that I had tried their example, which wasn't quite where it needed to be by our standards, and asked if they could deliver them with a few changes, to a higher quality standard, with serialised traceable production. By this I mean traceable QC and so-on. We worked on the lens setup with an optician, and it was much better, but more changes were needed.

After a little while I was satisfied enough to set up a contract for supply at this quality level. Although the price of the telescope was a little higher as a result of the changes, the result was a product which (I felt) delivered a very good image at the eyepiece. We offered them initially at a low price which we often do, to start things off, and I was suprised by how well they sold. Seeing this worked out pretty well, we decided to follow suit with another run, and also a larger 6" F5.9 Achromat (which actually required a lot more work seeing the focal ratio was faster). The results were pretty encouraging, and word soon got around in the community. So far, these are the only Achromats I've been prepared to sell, because I have control over production quality. You will notice that we do not produce any other Achromats. (Though that may change soon!).

Regarding your unit, after the damaged focuser was sorted out, I tested the unit at high power. The star-test was good, so was collimation with no problems.

I hope to convince you that the serial numbers are meaningful. They add cost and complexity, but they are worth it in the end, and the whole point of serialised production runs is to keep quality high and consistent. We probably haven't explained it very well. Each time we change the lens tooling, or do a new run, we restart the serial numbers on certain types of scope, depending on the contractor involved. In your case, Telescope House contacted us asking for a white unit specifically for a customer who wanted it in white so we did a search, and my colleague Ian found one in stock right at the back of our store (actually the last unit in white as we've changed the colour since then to a red I found attractive).

I note the inner packaging is missing from your box. When it's all present, it has so far proven adequate for a light weight OTA like this, and the foam parts suspend the scope away from the box - unless they are repositioned. So far we have not had any accidents caused by inadequate packing of this model (including international orders by air). We usually don't change things like that, unless its required, because it increases the price of the product, and feel it's what's inside the box that matters most. I take your point that it would instil more confidence in customers if the packaging was heavier. I'll look into it and take a balanced view with cost considerations. Of course, if the scope is taken out of the box and dropped on it's focuser, that's another matter. Packaging can't help in that situation.

In your case, it is possible that someone (likely the courier from your account) opened the package to check for anything suspicious (possibly due to it's length) and then resealed it, but not before moving and removing some inserts and dropping it on the focuser-end. In a way we're quite lucky, because the lens is far more expensive to replace than any other component, and scopes usually land on the lens, because it's heavier. Couriers reserve the right to inspect packages randomly in this day and age, but they should be more careful with the contents if that's what happened. We'll be having words, believe me. Regardless, this will not affect the customer. All our deliveries are insured, and the worst that can happen is you get a replacement or a refund. We try to keep all major components replaceable and we carry most parts as spares, so repair is usually quick. You will never be out of pocket and I'm suprised anyone would think so - I really am.

While you were understandably upset at receiving a damaged scope, you now seem satisfied and we are greatful for your positive comments about the now fixed product.

I'd like to thank the moderation team for being positive, impartial and open-minded, and encouraging a rational discussion.

I'm glad achromats are fashionable again. They have a lot to offer, and I'm hoping you'll enjoy the last of the white tube scopes, as we bravely move into red !

Please do call us if you have any questions about using your new scope, accessories and so-on. It's always a pleasure to chat about scopes and enjoying astronomy.

Best regards, Nick Altair

PS: You have my permission to copy and post this email on Stargazerslounge, provided you post the entire email, lest anything is taken out of context or misunderstood.

----------------------

Just like to thank both Telescope House and Altair Astro for getting the scope sorted, and also explaining the relevance of the serial number for Altair Astro.  

[John]

No wonder he gave you permission to post this on the forum.

[iPeace]

6 minutes ago, John said:

No wonder he gave you permission to post this on the forum.

[iPeace]

Full marks to Mr. Altair for saying all the right things. I do appreciate it when a supplier makes the effort to clarify matters. Stuff happens, as they say and it would seem that all issues have been sorted so onwards and upwards.

[admin]

29 minutes ago, John said:

No wonder he gave you permission to post this on the forum.

Yes indeed... 

Knighty2112 is pleased with the outcome and has posted Nick's advertorial so we think now is a good time to close the thread.