Goto's vs the old fashioned technique.

[Jonileth]

This might just be me, or i might just be rambling but i feel a certain anticipation and challenge - complete with rewards when hunting down deep sky objects, with a telescope where you have to move it with your hands and star hop. having had a go at a goto telescope i feel that these feelings are lost. okay, to be fair, you can get through viewing alot more objects with a goto, and for people with poor skies, goto's have got some very good advantages. But if you've got the skies then there's a certain thrill that comes with hunting down that elusive 11mag spiral, and when you eventually find it, you feel as though you have achieved something. Like i said this may just be me! but i would be interested in hearing your views. Happy viewing!

Jonileth

[algol]

totally agree mate, the only time i would consider goto is when i start imaging. but until then all about the manual

[Astroman]

It's not just you.

To me, the "hunt" is as much a part of the experience as the observing. Anyone can GOTO. Not anyone can find 67 Messiers and about the same number of NGC's from memory, or star hop to them with just a chart.

I'll stop there. Don't get me started.

[Jonileth]

One of the grandest moments i can remember was finding NGC 7331, in pegasus i was using a tal 1 telescope, with a custom built 7 X 50 finder (modified using the tal 1 finder and a 50mm helios objective, a vast improvement over the original!) i had tried for this object twice before but failed, but i wasn't gonna quit. when i did find, i remember yelling (much to the dismay of the neighbours 2:30 am :laughing2: ) i was so excited, the galaxy itself wasn't that special in that little scope, but I HAD FOUND IT!!!!

Jonileth

[Ant]

I'm more into the imaging side of things than the visual.

I've only very recently moved to a GOTO mount, (mainly because I wanted the autoguiding feature).

But the time it took me to find an object often meant that a nights imaging ended with nothing. Which can be very frustrating.

My back garden is bad for Light Polution, M101 I have NEVER managed to find. The first night out I found it - fantastic.

With my skies GOTO is vital

Ant

[jgs001]

I have a goto mount, but I wanted it for the motorised tracking (and got it dirt cheap BNIB from ebay). I still manually find things, but rather than push the scope by hand, use the motors to turn it around. And occasionally, ok I'll admit, used the goto for finding very dim fuzzy things. I nearly cheered really loudly when I found M1 using my scope on a camera tripod...

[barkis]

Star hopping and setting circles were my modus operandi, but the star hopping whilst operating from my urban skies was easier to practice, than when at a star party venue, where the night sky was so full of stars, it was very difficult to find the ones I was familiar with the result that finding a target took a bit longer than usual. Star filled skies can be very daunting

Not so for Astroman I'll warrant.

Ron.

[Jonileth]

Oops sorry to all you astrophotographers out there, totally forgot about you guys/gals :oops: . i cant think of a more useful tool than a goto mount for astrophotography! i might try this one day. hmm

Jonileth

[blinky]

I do enjoy the thrill when you manually track something down, in saying that though I am hoping to get GoTo this winter. As Ant says if you want to image you need to maximise exposure time!

Still hope to star hop when not imaging though....

[Vega]

I totally agree with the 'thrill from hunting view'. Hunting down an object for the first time is equally as thrilling as seeing the object. I do have GoTo now, so I run the risk of being a complete hypocrit here. However I did use an EQ3-2 for the first 2 years of my hobby and the hunting was indeed very satisfying not to mention educational. Had I started out with GoTo, my understanding of the sky may not have been so educated. I went GoTo mainly for photography and showing non-astro friends stuff (it speeds up things a lot and saved people getting bored in the cold while I fumble around trying to find a DSO on the zenith! ).

I recommend to anyone choosing a first scope not to use GoTo. However I recommend GoTo for public viewings, established astro go'ers or astro-photography.

Matt

[SteelRat]

I had much fun hunting down objects manually with my lil Tal scopes. Now I have a small goto and a dobsonian and enjoy them both.

When my lotto numbers come good and I have a 16 or 20 inch cass sat in a comfy obsy I can't imagine for a moment that the mount will be non-goto

Matthew

[part timer]

I also just love the thrill of the finding something that in many cases I have spent months looking for (what with the weather and all). Unfortunately the Light pollution I have just makes that feeling a lot more common (Every bloomin thing takes months to find!!). When I went on holiday a couple of years ago I found I was like a starhopping demon, I couldn't believe how easy it was to find the things that are barely perceptible from home. It was then I realised I need a Bulldozer (for the street lights) not goto

[Sam]

Star hopping for me - well at least until I get the goto bits and pieces for my mount. It is a lot of fun and really helps with learning the sky to star hop around.

Sam

[Astrosurf]

I was thrilled the first time I found the Andromeda galaxy! I could find the larger objects OK but not the fainter stuff. I get all confused with the inverted image and get all wound up! It may be because I'm a bit dyspraxic, but I will need my goto to find the fainter things 'cause I can't use guide stars through the scope. I go all wibbly-wobbly!! :shock:

[Talitha]

Anyone can GOTO. Not anyone can find 67 Messiers and about the same number of NGC's from memory, or star hop to them with just a chart.

Ok everyone, repeat after me... goto is NOT a dirty word. :nono:

I'm sorry, but it rubs me the wrong way when someone (intentionally or not) makes it sound as though they're better than someone else just because their sky is more accomodating to the interest of Amateur astronomy.

Because of various factors involved such as available observing time and light pollution, many Amateurs have to rely on goto in order to see anything, and I applaud their determination.

I've also noticed in these "goto -vs- starhop" threads ,that goto users seem to feel the need to give reasons or excuses why they use it. There is no right way or wrong way to get to your target. The main thing is to get there and enjoy the view.

Ok, I feel better...

Now would someone kindly help me down from this soapbox?

That being said...

My first 8" SCT was a computerized Celestron Ultima 2000 and it was a lovely scope.. absolutely fantastic. The go-to feature was a godsend in the winter because it enabled me to get to my targets without touching the scope... very important when it's 10°F outside (-12°C).

But I ended up getting rid of it because the scope was no longer supported by Celestron, and it was replaced by my Meade LX-10. At least now if something goes wrong I take it apart and fix it myself.

Basically I guess you could consider the LX-10's setting circles as a form of 'manual goto'. Since I also enjoy stahopping, the LX-10 gives me the best of both worlds.

[MrEd]

I love my Goto LX90 for imaging Its a

godsend especially in high precision mode to get

the object on chip.

But for visual eye candy i love my Dob and a good star atlas

As i enjoy the 'hunt' too.

Ed

[barkis]

Of course Goto scopes are here, and here to stay. But taking one of those instruments out into the field with a bunch of people wanting to see some deep sky stuff they have all eagerly waited to see, and the goto packs in, the person in charge is going to look pretty silly in the eyes of these folk if he or she, is unable to find anything to look at, because they rely totally on a computerised telescope. Although I think anyone with sense, would have a contingency plan in the event of such a catastrophe. The electronic age is here to stay, but there are a lot of old timers who are still happy to do things the old way. I don't think old John Dobson had a sidewalk Goto did he?

I stand to be corrected on that one.

Ron.

[Astroman]

New mantra, "GOTO is not a dirty word...GOTO is not a dirty word...GOTO..."

I don't think it's a dirty word, and I sure don't think I'm better than anyone else. Quite the contrary.

I do, think it's a mistake to make a goto your first scope. I advise beginners always to buy a good pair of binoculars, Turn Left At Orion or something similar and get to know the sky manually before you even buy a telescope.

Later on, once you know the sky, GOTO is great. For public viewing, for "old timers", (cringe repressed) , astrophotography, (from the UK? Preposterous!), or otherwise challenged by LP or the like.

I've seen too many people use it as a crutch rather than learn the sky, as opposed to making it a tool to do so.

>No soapboxes, no offense intended. No GOTO's were harmed in the making of this message<

[part timer]

I don't believe theres any thing actually wrong with goto, It's just that a lot of people seem to miss out on the pleasure of it all these days. This is a hobby after all!

It is very common to find people with so much stress at equipment and technicality's that they stop actually looking up and having fun. It doesn't have to be that way.

i think it does every one the world of good now and then to just slowly pan across the sky and think about what it is your looking at. Let the rest of your life be stressfull and give your blood pressure time to settle. lets face it it will all be there tomorrow or next week so theres no rush to get that 'perfect ' image or whatever.

If you like all the bells and whistles then good for you but sometimes these things can actually get in the way of what you want to do (which is have fun) so whilst goto is a good thing I just think people should not get to hung up on it. It's not that hard to find things on a good night and if you can't see them then so what theres always another time and something else you can see now.

Sorry I think I've rambled a bit!!

LUKE

[Tim]

LOL!! It makes it sound like all you need to do is push the button and away you go. Even on the best of nights with a big scope at f10 or more, its lucky to get the desired object in the centre frame. And if it DOESNT drop it in the frame, then you REALLY struggle to find the thing.

Which is why I use goto WITH charts for the dimmer objects. Also, I get the goto to show the way with the big tube, see where it is in widefield through the smaller tube, then find it with the dobsonian, kind of the best of both worlds. But I have really carp skies, living centrally between three cities and next door to an airport.

Hell, I have even been known to get my mrs to hold my laser pointer at the spot where I KNEW M81 to be, then used the finderscope to place it centre screen, as the GOTO simply refused to get anywhere near.

Sure, I'd love to have the time on my hands to learn where all these bits and bobs are, but when you work 60-80 hours a week and have three kids, a wife and two dogs, then priorities are priorities.

Cheers

TJ

[scotastro]

Owning both GOTO and "Push To" scopes for many years I enjoy using both. While GOTO has advantages it might not be the right thing for a beginner.

To my mind the smaller scopes could give an owner unrealstic expectations. The database is common across the wide range of scopes from 90mm to 200mm. I can just imagine a newbie with a 90mm scope expecting to see an 11th or 12th mag galaxy and wondering what is wrong with the scope. After all it IS in the database why would it be in there if the scope is not capable of seeing it.

With GOTO you tend to want to move on to the next object with barely a glance at the one just located. When it has take 5 or 10 min to find an object you tend to keep looking at it, which of course improves you "astronomers eyes" for more seeing detail.

Finally, star hopping with charts allows you to see what else is nearby, but with a GOTO you might over look galaxies like NGC 6207 right next to M13 or NGC3077 near M81.

Whatever scope you use clear skies and happy observing.

Scotastro

[acey]

I'm a star-hopper and have nothing against GOTO (or setting circles). One reason I don't use either is because I have to set up my scope every time I use it (having driven a fair way beforehand) and I like a system I can set up in two minutes flat (and that's when I'm slow). So a hand-pushed dobsonian and a good star map is my choice.

Some people like simplicity and go for the most minimal approach they can, others like the flexibility that comes with extra gadgetry. I sometimes think astronomy is a bit like fishing (there's always the galaxy that got away) - coarse anglers have big tackle boxes, buckets of ground bait, electronic bite detectors, and when they're set up it looks like they're camping there for the week. Fly fishers take a rod and a box of flies. That's my own preference - keep it pure and simple. But there's plenty room in the world for every approach.

Andrew

[stefski]

Hi all,

I used to have goto a few years ago and went 'back' to manual when I got aperture fever!

I loved the 'chase' and satisfaction of finding faint DSO's in light polluted skies. BUT given a have a young family and 'lie ins' are now a distant memory (and also the small matter of getting up for work), I decided to go back to a goto system to maximise my time actually observing a hard to find DSO and drawing it! I used to spend so long finding things in orange skies, that I rarely had time to draw them before bedtime!

Anyway, there's my tuppence worth....

Stef

[John]

Hi all,

I used to have goto a few years ago and went 'back' to manual when I got aperture fever!

I loved the 'chase' and satisfaction of finding faint DSO's in light polluted skies. BUT given a have a young family and 'lie ins' are now a distant memory (and also the small matter of getting up for work), I decided to go back to a goto system to maximise my time actually observing a hard to find DSO and drawing it! I used to spend so long finding things in orange skies, that I rarely had time to draw them before bedtime!

Anyway, there's my tuppence worth....

Stef

I've been down the same route as Stef but now my childeren are teenagers (who won't get out of bed !) so I've found myself going back to manual again so that much be the style of observing I enjoy most

It's marvelous that facilities such as GOTO and altazimuth tracking have now become available at reasonable prices now - when I started in astronomy only professional scopes costing thousands of pounds had these facilities !.

John

[Casus belli]

I used to be pretty scathing of Go-To but now I'm mellowing with age. I'm blessed with fairly dark skies which makes star-hopping easy.

I got off to a bad start with my go-to set-up. Hours of frustration and wasted viewing time later I learned that you do really need to read, and more importantly understand, the manual.