Light pollution, are we losing the battle?

[Bellepheron]

I often wondered what happen to planning permission where joe public had the chance to speak. That is a nightmare to deal with, very inconsiderate. I have no light pollutiion but since my scope arrived NO CLEAR NIGHTS :-(

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[Patbloke]

I would nominate Birmingham city council for there wonderful refurbished flats in [removed word] Hill Lane Rubery.. By day the five blocks are impressive tidy and modern! By night every balcony has a 4 billion watt bulb outside every flat door. I will get a picture and send it to the planners as they are always stating they have robust (over used word) environment policies.... Clearly here in this case I would suggest the environmental impact assessment has not been completed prior to the works.

I have seen two recent planning applications in my area recently and responded stating that I would consider any light pollution unacceptable! Never miss the opportunity to raise the issue people...

My son has been lucky enough to buy a house in an area not far from my address in Rubery Birmingham where there are not any streetlights... It's so dark at night its amazing! and for the record - it is NOT a hotbed of crime. I would love to know the crime statistics to compare unlighted areas v lit in suburban zones.

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[RT65CB-SWL]

I would nominate Birmingham city council for there wonderful refurbished flats in [removed word] Hill Lane Rubery.. By day the five blocks are impressive tidy and modern! By night every balcony has a 4 billion watt bulb outside every flat door. I will get a picture and send it to the planners as they are always stating they have robust (over used word) environment policies.... Clearly here in this case I would suggest the environmental impact assessment has not been completed prior to the works...

Would be interesting to see the photo here! Will we need to get our solar filters out?

...My son has been lucky enough to buy a house in an area not far from my address in Rubery Birmingham where there are not any streetlights... It's so dark at night its amazing! and for the record - it is NOT a hotbed of crime. I would love to know the crime statistics to compare unlighted areas v lit in suburban zones.

Perhaps the offenders of crime are frightened of the dark!

[Dave Lloyd]

Don't you just hate the word robust when used in any context other than the physical. Or is it just me?

[glowjet]

That is just terrible for you Nick, however, I have a feeling it could possibly be a waste of time approaching the club, or the authorities, for any shading, as they will, no doubt, explain that overall illumination is essential to watch ball flight patterns.

It`s a shame, but it looks like something you are going to having to live with. You could, never the less, make an approach to the club and ask that the lights be switched off immediately activities have finished, or at a certain predetermined time, this would be logical in the interests of the clubs energy bill. As a sporting club they would also become aware, that their night time activities are causing concern to other hobby users of the night sky, something, no doubt, that never crossed their minds, when the flood lighting project was initiated. 

[scarp15]

'Are we loosing the battle'

Yes, thank goodness petrol is currently fairly cheap.

[A40farinagolf]

Hopefully this won't set a precedent

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-34582371

If it does then we'll all have to become migrants (apologies if it's not PC to say such things these days)

and move to a country with darker skies.

[pipnina]

Hopefully this won't set a precedent

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-34582371

If it does then we'll all have to become migrants (apologies if it's not PC to say such things these days)

and move to a country with darker skies.

At least their lamps are deep red...  and aren't overly bright and white like the new LEDs.

Also, that video in the footnotes was cringeworthy.

"I nearly tripped down the stairs it was so dark" - torch

"People would be calling the taxi and you couldn't see them" - torch

"People were scared to walk home at night because it was dark" -torch

[triton1]

Hopefully this won't set a precedenthttp://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-34582371If it does then we'll all have to become migrants (apologies if it's not PC to say such things these days)and move to a country with darker skies.

North Korea prehaps?

[triton1]

I can,t believe people in Wellingborough Northants want a "sponsor a streetlight scheme" to keep all the lights on,total madness.

[A40farinagolf]

As county councils are strapped for cash we could pay them to switch them off between say 2300 - 0500hrs - that would be a win / win / win situation.

Less light pollution and less co2

Reduced electricity bill for the Council

Additional revenue for the council from impoverished astronomers, could be called "DSLR" or Dark Sky Levy Remittance

£0.50 per week is a small amount to pay so if 100,000 astronomers each pay £25 per annum shared across 27 county councils then each would be £100k better off and they'd have smaller electricity bills.

(Only joking)

[laser_jock99]

That's terrible- I feel sorry for you.

Floodlit golf driving ranges are another one of my LP bugbears (along with floodlit rural churches and farm lights left on all night....). Just another way blight an entire nightscape.

[fondofchips]

These lights that Nick is talking about here were on at 05.15am on Tuesday morning.  I went out at 10pm Friday night and they were off, I have trouble with neighbours security lights anyway so I don't usually go out before 10pm.

Needs an organised approach, the next meeting of the local astronomy group isn't until the end of November.

I've sent you a PM Nick.

Cheers,

Fondofchips.

[fondofchips]

This is a picture of the light pollution Nick is describing here, just ridiculous: -

There are 2 street lights in the foreground, one old orange type and a newer whiter light to give you an idea how bright this LP is.

Our best bet is probably to try and get the hours they are used restricted.

Cheers,

Fondofchips.

[Scooot]

I found this today, don't know if it's been posted before but it seems to support what most of us have been saying for a while.

http://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2015/07/08/jech-2015-206012.short?g=w_jech_ahead_tab

[Dave Lloyd]

I think one problem is the atavistic fear that homo sapiens has of the dark. Being out with the sabre toothed tigers etc with no fire to ward them off is worrying. It doesn't help that the media tends to sensationalise stories about "lawless Britain" or wherever. I've yet to see a story where it was dark but absolutely nothing bad happened, even though that's the overwhelming norm.

[spaceman_spiff]

I drove past a house yesterday that had lights all over the front illuminating every square inch of it. Horrible. People down our road more and more are starting to leave not just one bright light on but multiple ones... For some reason the houses behind us have those bright 500w square halogen lamps on the outside of their house at the back!! Just glad I have tall trees that way. But people are becoming more paranoid and well don't really care about what effect it has on anyone else.

John

I feel your pain my friend!

A neighbour of mine a few houses away decided that she needed a very bright halogen light to illuminate the back of her house, unfortunately it also lit up about 3 other gardens including mine. I asked her to dip the light down because it was very intrusive. I absolutely don't think she put that light there maliciously but I do think there is a growing issue where people assume that it is ok to ubiquitously light up their environment. In the end she did dip it down and although I can still see the light, it is far less intrusive.

As for the OP, I do feel that you could make a case to show excessive light pollution using your pictures, but it is always more difficult when you are fighting money! 

[A40farinagolf]

Just contacted my local council regarding the new LED streetlights they've recently fitted because they illuminate my garden more than the old sodium ones did.

I explained about my interest in astronomy and the impact the new lights have and they were very helpful.

I now have a job number to refer back to but more importantly they made a commitment to fitting shrouds as soon as they are able to.

Watch this space.

[Carbon Brush]

Just contacted my local council regarding the new LED streetlights they've recently fitted because they illuminate my garden more than the old sodium ones did.

I explained about my interest in astronomy and the impact the new lights have and they were very helpful.

I now have a job number to refer back to but more importantly they made a commitment to fitting shrouds as soon as they are able to.

Watch this space.

I know someone (non astro) who grumbled because the new led street lights didn't light his garden to help him get to his car at night.

Can't win 'em all!

Seriously though. If the lights are pointing into gardens, surely they are incorrectly sited, or the wrong fittings are in use.

[Mr Flibble]

That's pretty horrendous Nick.

If its any consolation one solution might be to have a few sips of the good stuff, hold your green planetary filter up to the sky and think about the aurora borealis!

[rockettsue]

No the illuminators probably dont care and dont even think about light pollution  not being bothered about night skies.  Reminds me of some people I know. I walked back from being out with a group of them  not long ago and as usual I stopped to look up at the starry night sky.  It was beautiful and so dark there in that place. One of the people asked another person in our group why I had stopped and why was I looking up -   as if I was a maniac! I said look up its beautiful. But of course they just carried on walking leaving me behind.  I don't think we star gazers will win on this one.

[pipnina]

No the illuminators probably dont care and dont even think about light pollution  not being bothered about night skies.  Reminds me of some people I know. I walked back from being out with a group of them  not long ago and as usual I stopped to look up at the starry night sky.  It was beautiful and so dark there in that place. One of the people asked another person in our group why I had stopped and why was I looking up -   as if I was a maniac! I said look up its beautiful. But of course they just carried on walking leaving me behind.  I don't think we star gazers will win on this one.

If we support dark sites like Exmoor or the Dark Site parks (or whatever they're called) in Canada, or places like the Grand Canyon and do a good job at outreach... We might get small victories and protected areas even if we still have to travel.

I mean, I live in the suburbs of Plymouth and I can see Mag 4.2 under "Good/Very good" skies. And somewhere above mag 5.2 if I travel to Wembury beach. And plymouth has a bucket tonne of terribly used light fittings. Perhaps if we get the councilors and MPs interested we could make more progress... perhaps give people information about efficient use of outdoor lighting (aka: not placed vertically so 1 lamp lights up your 10-metre driveway... lol.)

Mind, I say this, but my mum is the one who REFUSES to put blinds in the kitchen... "But they grow mould" she says...

[Patbloke]

On 25/10/2015 at 23:45, Philip R said:

Would be interesting to see the photo here! Will we need to get our solar filters out?

Perhaps the offenders of crime are frightened of the dark!

Oops, bit behind with my admin... Heres the pic of the super illuminated flats in South Birmingham... Glad I don't live opposite them, it's like 24 hour daylight!!!

So shall I start a new thread with it - titled light pollution award of the year?

[Moonshane]

That's ludicrous.

[Paz]

My dad has remarked a few times how the night sky is nothing like it was when he was a boy. 

I think light pollution is going to get worse simply because there are many more things people do that need light than need dark, and the amount of light polluting "stuff" is only going to grow due to "progress".