Imaging with the 130pds

[Uranium235]

On 04/07/2016 at 19:22, al-alami said:

Hi Everyone,

I Must say I have been through this thread .. ohhh at least 3 or 4 times , and because of it I am now the proud owner of a 130 PDS   It arrived earlier today.  I must say .. even knowing that is wasn't a large scope ... its so cute   It also probably the first one to come to Jordan (as far as I know).  So I thank you all for it, I would not have bought this if it hadn't been for this thread and some of the super amazing images on it.  I hope I can do it justice   If all goes well it may very well see first light tonight, if not at the latest it will be tom.  I will be using a modified Canon 1200 the Baader MPCC Mark III and if all goes well I might get to try out the Baader narrowband filters.  I guess I will keep you posted.  

Thanks again guys

Welcome aboard!

In regard to the NB filters, if you are only using a DSLR then just get the Ha - as the DSLR isnt really the camera of choice for for bicolour (or hubble format) narrowband work... not unless its been modified and had its bayer matrix removed (a very difficult job indeed!).

Im guessing Jordan must have some pretty dark places, so you will be able to take full advantage of the lack of LP and kick out some really good RGB images.

[Uranium235]

28 minutes ago, steve251 said:

Hi everyone

 

ive been dipping in and out of this titanic thread. 36 pages over two years wow! Well done everyone and some great pictures

i would love to have a go at Astrophotography and the 130pds seems like a great scope.

can anyone suggest an equipment list for a beginner

I recently bought a Nikon D7200 and am trying out some landscape photography 

sadly i I live in London and have never seen the Milky Way

 

Thanks in advance

 

Steve

Its as expensive as you want to make it Steve

But the basis for a good setup is firstly the mount, you could start with the EQ5 or AVX but that would limit your future options should you ever want to get a larger or heavier telescope. So with that in mind, I would suggest an HEQ5.

Next, you would need some autoguiding - a simple setup like a 9x50 finder with a guidecam attached (QHY5) would be perfect for that telescope.

After that, you can either stick with your current camera - or take the leap into CCD imaging.... which is like stepping out of reliant robin and getting into a formula one car But having said that, StamosP is getting some great images with his DSLR.... very impressive. Also you may want to get an LP filter, especially if living in London (which is pretty much LP hell). Eventually, you can move to narrowband imaging and bypass the LP altogether by shooting in glorious Ha with a CCD.

[Uranium235]

On 18/07/2016 at 12:23, Stub Mandrel said:

My first proper DSO with the 130P-DS. A sitting duck target, M13. This should not have worked! 50 30-second subs taken as the light was fading before 11:00pm. Yet here is not just M13 but up and to the left is the active galaxy NGC6207 and even a hint of Mag 15.3 IC4617.

Missed this one.... and for only your first proper outing... a good result. Good corners, but... the background is clipped slightly. If you are using photoshop, try to ensure the back point starts at about 15 on the histogram - ie: avoid having it hard left, and leave a bit of a gap. You can shave small values off, but you cant put it back a bit like having your hair cut (if you have any!).

 

[Stub Mandrel]

Hello Steve,

This is the equipment I use, besides the 'new' 130P-DS I have a larger 150PL for planteary and lunar work, a small refractors now for solar work and a selection of camera lenses two of which (400mm and 135mm) I use a fair bit:

Canon 450D

NEQ3-2 mount (probably a minimum EQ mount)

EQ5 tripod (the standard EQ3 one is a bit wobbly unless heavily modified)

RA drive (this allows the mount to follow stars as they drift across the sky)

A wired remote shutter release that lets me program in a series of exposures

A polarscope to ease aligning the mount with earth's axis so it follows the stars accurately

A bahtionov mask for focusing

I also have a skywatcher coma corrector for the 130P-DS, without this stars in the corners will look smeared - but you can crop the images until you get a CC.

 

That's probably near to a minimum list, but an alternative is a neat mount that will take a camera with a long lens and track the sky.

If you have £££ consider buying a goto mount that will find things for you AND track them.

There are lots of bright things in the sky you can hunt down with that kit, but in time you may be tempted deeper in with specialist cameras and narrowband filters that demand longer exposures and therefore an additional guide camera (usually fitted to a smaller scope on the same mount).

You will also need some image processing software. The cheapest (free) option is Deep Sky Stacker to stack your images and GIMP to process them. There are also free programs for planetary work such as PIPP, Registax and Autostakkert!2 - these work best with a dedicated planetary cam or even a cheap webcam using a capture program such as Sharpcap. The 130P-DS is a bit short in the focal length for planets, they will come out rather small.

[vroomster]

Signing in to the growing group of 130pds users  

Just ordered the 130 along with a coma corrector and camera adapter. Also added a Polemaster to make everything easier to setup. It will be used with an EQ6 Pro. I already have a Celestron 9,25 SCT for planets and stuff that i'm very happy with, but i really look forward to getting this little thing mounted. I'm located in southern Sweden in a pretty dark area. As soon as i have everything i will give M31 a go. 

[vroomster]

On 7/25/2016 at 11:24, vroomster said:

Signing in to the growing group of 130pds users  

Just ordered the 130 along with a coma corrector and camera adapter. Also added a Polemaster to make everything easier to setup. It will be used with an EQ6 Pro. I already have a Celestron 9,25 SCT for planets and stuff that i'm very happy with, but i really look forward to getting this little thing mounted. I'm located in southern Sweden in a pretty dark area. As soon as i have everything i will give M31 a go. 

Oops. They mailed me and said that they don't know when they will have the 130 in stock, but offered me a 150 pds for the same money. Should be fine, just have to create my own "Imaging with the 150 pds" thread i guess

[al-alami]

On 7/22/2016 at 22:06, Uranium235 said:

Welcome aboard!

In regard to the NB filters, if you are only using a DSLR then just get the Ha - as the DSLR isnt really the camera of choice for for bicolour (or hubble format) narrowband work... not unless its been modified and had its bayer matrix removed (a very difficult job indeed!).

Im guessing Jordan must have some pretty dark places, so you will be able to take full advantage of the lack of LP and kick out some really good RGB images.

Thank you Uranium 235. Your work is an inspiration   I'm sort of going in baby steps since there isn't anyone around to help and everything I need to get I have to ship from abroad (not a fun exercise).   Apparently Jordan isn't as dark as I thought it was, I'm still finding out to be honest.  I know you're not a fan of the DSLR route, but its an easy way to at least start with astroimaging, getting a CCD camera into Jordan requires special permission (and also when you factor in shipping, customs and tax then the price is more than double what you all are seeing).  I wish there was more information on how to focus with a Ha filter and DSLR.

Baby steps

This forum has been a beautiful source of info, and I blame you personally for me getting the 130PDS  the saving up for the Atik is currently ongoing

Thanks

Edited July 27, 2016 by al-alami

[Stub Mandrel]

As another frustrated new 130P-DS owner I think this thread must be largely responsible for the ongoing cloudiness of 2016 :-(

[sagramore]

Welcome to all the new owners around the world! Congratulations on owning a lovely little scope

I know that some of you are not new to the hobby and some of you are so please ignore any tips I give that you already know. I will add a few things I have learned since I had it, however please bear in mind that I am nothing more than an average user - my images are not the best but I am proud of them.

• Get a good mount! This is number 1. The scope is small so you can get away with some smaller mounts, however once you add a guide scope and camera (and maybe filter wheel if you are lucky enough to have the expensive cameras!) then the best mount you can afford is the way to go. I use a NEQ6 for mine as I have an ST80 guide scope and a heavy DSLR.
• A standard unmodified DSLR will get you good photos. Sure, you can't see the Ha and you have to battle with light pollution, but it is definitely the most affordable way into astrophotography where you can learn what you are doing, and how to process images.
• Light pollution - probably the bane of all our lives. This is especially bad for the DSLRs doing one-shot RGB imaging. You will notice some bad gradients across your images and they are difficult to remove. There are methods out there to help and, of course, you can aim away from the horizon/cities and be somewhere nice & dark. I don't have a LP filter yet, but it is probably the next item on my list before any other upgrades.
• Power - Do not forget to budget for power in the field. I was told by everybody that the celestron/skywatcher branded "power tanks" that you can buy are overpriced garbage. You need to factor in the cost of buying some sort of power for when you are out & about. In the end I got a 110 Ah leisure battery and a battery box to house it in, total cost around £80. It's not a lot but it is not insignificant.
• Coma corrector - There are two main CC that people in here use; Skywatcher and Baader. The Baader is a little more expensive I believe but some people claim it to be better. I use the Skywatcher 0.9x CC. Please note that depending on your camera (I am using a DSLR), using the CC can push the focal point of the scope to an awkward position, i.e. the focuser draw-tube was a long way into the aperture and was causing "bites" to come out of bright (all?) stars. You can relatively simply fix this by moving the primary mirror up the tube and there are a couple of posts in this thread earlier about how to do this reversibly/non-destructively. I did it, it wasn't hard, but it was a little fiddly and you need to be confident enough to start taking the mirror out, etc. - Just something to keep in mind! It was annoying but the benefits of the CC are worth it.

That's about all I have for now and I just hope it helps at least one of you to get past a problem you might have.

Remember that you don't *need* a guide scope and guide camera when you are just starting. Using an NEQ6 and this little scope I was able to get 2 minute exposures without guiding as long as I polar aligned well so if your money is tight, the guiding can wait a little longer and you will still get some great images. All of the photos I have posted in here were taken without any guiding as I only just bought it and now it's summer so there's no imaging time!

Clear skies, everyone!!

[Jokehoba]

On 22/07/2016 at 20:06, Uranium235 said:

In regard to the NB filters, if you are only using a DSLR then just get the Ha - as the DSLR isnt really the camera of choice for for bicolour (or hubble format) narrowband work... not unless its been modified and had its bayer matrix removed (a very difficult job indeed!).

A DSLR may not be the camera of choice but quite pleasing results using Ha/OIII filters can be achieved. Certainly, Ha is easier to capture (although only using 25% of the pixels), but OIII is extracted from green, which uses 50% of the sensor pixels. Although not as high in SNR (and more frames are needed to boost this/reduce noise) it is not impossible. This bicolour image of the Rosette nebula taken with my SW130P earlier this year:

 

[Uranium235]

Thats good, and its confirmed my suspicions that a DSLR would operate on two portions of the bayer matirx in OIII. I just never got around to trying it myself! (as I soley use the DSLR for RGB infilling of CCD luminance data now).

lol... and youre probably just up the road from me

I guess it aint too bad around here, I've lived in worse places for LP.

[Uranium235]

hmmm, thats got me thinking..... I wonder if I could use the Star71+DSLR at the same time as the 200pds (in Ha)  to collect OIII data. Its not like you need a super clean OIII image becuase all youre looking for is a misty patch of OIII with no structure. All of the structure and detail would come from the Ha layer.

Though it would probably need to be rescaled to death... 350mm and 1000mm is quite a focal length difference!

[Jokehoba]

5 minutes ago, Uranium235 said:

I just never got around to trying it myself! (as I soley use the DSLR for RGB infilling of CCD luminance data now).

I'm heading that route, having ordered a ZWO ASI1600MM... I've also tried blending Ha (as luminance) into DSLR RGB but not very successfully - NB and RGB don't mix well

12 minutes ago, Uranium235 said:

lol... and youre probably just up the road from me

I guess it aint too bad around here, I've lived in worse places for LP.

And if you are a member of Worcester AS, and have been at the Christmas quiz in Bromsgrove in the last few years, we may have even met!

[ChrisLX200]

4 minutes ago, Uranium235 said:

hmmm, thats got me thinking..... I wonder if I could use the Star71+DSLR at the same time as the 200pds (in Ha)  to collect OIII data. Its not like you need a super clean OIII image becuase all youre looking for is a misty patch of OIII with no structure. All of the structure and detail would come from the Ha layer.

Though it would probably need to be rescaled to death... 350mm and 1000mm is quite a focal length difference!

I would take issue with that   OIII channel can often add a lot of structural definition - this is my (3yr old) OIII channel for the Rosette:

ChrisH

[Uranium235]

57 minutes ago, ChrisLX200 said:

I would take issue with that   OIII channel can often add a lot of structural definition - this is my (3yr old) OIII channel for the Rosette:

ChrisH

Not always mate, there are plenty of occasions where its just a misty patch with the exception of the Veil, crescent, M42 and a few others (where there are definite separate structures), other common targets have a good 90% of its structure in Ha (IC1396 for example), so OIII isnt really buying you that much in terms of detail. Same deal for Sadr region, and countless other Sharpless objects where Ha dominates.

Horses for courses

And its highly doubtful that anyone would notice minor OIII structures that are missing in a Ha rich image.... its an approach Ive used for years, and not once has someone stopped me to say... "hang about, theres a bit missing!" - but that has been when Ive imaged OIII at the same FL as the Ha, not sure I'd get away with it if resizing an OIII layer to nearly 300% its original size.

[Uranium235]

56 minutes ago, Jokehoba said:

I'm heading that route, having ordered a ZWO ASI1600MM... I've also tried blending Ha (as luminance) into DSLR RGB but not very successfully - NB and RGB don't mix well

And if you are a member of Worcester AS, and have been at the Christmas quiz in Bromsgrove in the last few years, we may have even met!

Heh heh Im not really a member of an AS, as SGL is the community I known since day 1. I'll be down at the next SGL star party in October if youre coming. This years topic for my processing workshop is likely to be mosaics.

But, I digress.... as this thread is supposed to be about the 130pds - so come on, lets see another image folks!

[Stub Mandrel]

8 hours ago, Uranium235 said:

But, I digress.... as this thread is supposed to be about the 130pds - so come on, lets see another image folks!

We need a cloudless night first...

[dyfiastro]

Taken last night, still trying to get everything dialled in but I am pretty happy so far

 

[Stub Mandrel]

I should add last night's trophy to this thread

[Uranium235]

Boo hoo... not fair!

It was raining here last night, but I may see some action tonight.

[Stub Mandrel]

Can I cope with two nights in a row  - the curry earlier is lying very heavy in my tum :-)

[dyfiastro]

Its pretty clear here at present as well, I just watching a big thick patch of black stuff on the horizon however

[Uranium235]

Yay!

Its clear(ish) so im just doing some testing on the Veil.... lets see if I can get a colour pic out of this 8"!

One thing I can say though, is that the PA requirements for 1000mm are radically different to that of something like an 80ED or 130pds... if youre a little bit off - you get punished for it.

 

[Atreta]

this is my last night's attempt of the lagoon nebula.

i've yet to buy the spacers to use with the CC, that's why it's showing a lot of coma in the corners. also i need help to make phd guiding more smoothly, but i consider this a progress.

14x120s lights (it went more west and LP was washing out)

10x120s darks

iso 800

[Susaron]

Good Morning Gents.

Here another proud owner of a SW130PDS (and a SW200PDS as well), I will like to share with you that for those like me suffering headaches with the SW130PDS focuser, I have provided to Ron from Moonlite, with detailed

measurements from the stock focuser in order to be able to fit Moonlite focusers to our little imaging beast. A 5'' diameter flange is coming.

Meanwhile I would like to share with you some of my first imaging attempts with this scope.

Cheers.

M.