Inspire me about visual astronomy

[bomberbaz]

@imakebeer, I found the link to a more in depth overview on filters. So if you are considering expanding your armoury, it is well worth a read.

Guide to Light Pollution Filters (agenaastro.com)

[PeterStudz]

On 03/01/2023 at 16:28, spacedobsonian said:

You know, people look at the Jupiter or the Andromeda galaxy and say "Is that it?" I think people don't think about what they are looking, so I would just say that just think about what you are seeing, Jupiter, a planet larger than any, floating 750 million km from earth, with its great red spot 4x the size of earth. It just gives a sense of grandeur while observing it and that's the main reason I enjoy this hobby! 

I would recommend trying it out the next time you observe anything!

Well, I do that and really it goes without saying. But some people simply have zero interest in visual and AP. My wife is like that. She’s seen the moon and Saturn but from what I can remember that’s it. She accepts it largely because my daughter enjoys visual and she can understand that’s it’s educational etc. Mind, I think if I started AP and she saw the price she would think that I have mental health issues

Now, as I kid I can remember the first time I saw Saturn and its rings. Jupiter too. The telescope was so small that I could only just make out rings and on Jupiter I could only see its moons, no banding. Still, I was like a kid in a candy shop. This was in the late 1970’s and the fact I can remember it from so long ago is telling.

My daughter is similar. The first time we both looked at Jupiter & Saturn was in June 2021. After that it was every opportunity and I mean every opportunity. As it was summer we’d be up in the early hours observing until the sun came up. A few times we carried on and did solar. But as I mentioned, it was also part of an event - camping outside, drinking hot chocolate, toasting marshmallows, having a friend for a sleepover. For me It was exhausting, especially if I had work in the morning, but so much fun.

Then I have a friend whose teenage daughter has zero interest. And no interested in the night sky at all. When I was chatting to her she obviously didn’t even know what a galaxy is 

[bomberbaz]

3 hours ago, PeterStudz said:

Well, I do that and really it goes without saying. But some people simply have zero interest in visual and AP. My wife is like that. She’s seen the moon and Saturn but from what I can remember that’s it. 

 

Sounds exactly the same as my wife, actually as you alluded to, the complete lack of interest is something of a blessing in disguise. This discourages her having any interest in costs. For example all eyepieces cost in the region of 20-80 quid and telescopes a few hundred. Actually the telescope one isn't wrong, just not specifically correct either. 😉

[PeterStudz]

12 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

Sounds exactly the same as my wife, actually as you alluded to, the complete lack of interest is something of a blessing in disguise. This discourages her having any interest in costs. For example all eyepieces cost in the region of 20-80 quid and telescopes a few hundred. Actually the telescope one isn't wrong, just not specifically correct either. 😉

Now you mention this it’s similar here. Although I have had comments about certain boxes in our recycling bin. The ones with “FLO May Contain Clouds” stickers. But I don’t think she’s worked out that they are related to astronomy. 

[AstroMuni]

16 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

Sounds exactly the same as my wife, actually as you alluded to, the complete lack of interest is something of a blessing in disguise.

You guys are lucky. My wife is not interested in astronomy but she does keep tabs on the credit card statement 😞

19 hours ago, PeterStudz said:

Then I have a friend whose teenage daughter has zero interest.

I have 2 daughters and each one has a different level of interest in astronomy. One is appreciative of what I am doing but takes no part and the other is both appreciative and does take part sometimes

Edited January 5, 2023 by AstroMuni

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, AstroMuni said:

My wife is not interested in astronomy but she does keep tabs on the credit card statement

Luckily, my wife doesn't complain much as long as my purchases stay below $500 apiece.  I keep encouraging her to spend more money on her hobbies, but they tend to be much lower in cost than mine (cross-stitch and other crafting hobbies).

2 hours ago, AstroMuni said:

I have 2 daughters and each one has a different level of interest in astronomy. One is appreciative of what I am doing but takes no part and the other is both appreciative and does take part sometimes

My older daughter asked for an astro kit for Christmas 2018 or 2019, just before the pandemic, when she and her future husband were camping a lot.  I put one together centered on a 127 Mak and DSV-1 mount I had upgraded from a couple of years earlier.  As a youngster, she was the only one of my kids even remotely interested in astronomy.

My other daughter's long term boyfriend (and probably future husband) might be the next one to get the astro bug based on an impromptu star party I did with the gathered family on Christmas Night 2021 (it was room temp, clear, and dead calm outdoors).  He was genuinely interested in what he was seeing through the eyepiece.

[imakebeer]

On 03/01/2023 at 13:34, PeterStudz said:

An example of an event is camping out in the garden with my daughter, looking up at the stars, scanning the sky with binoculars, looking for shooting stars, listening to foxes, seeing hedgehogs just before sunrise, hearing the dawn chorus, drinking hot chocolate and toasting marshmallows… looking in the telescope is just the icing on the cake! As a Dad you’ll remember these kind of events for the rest of you life. And for us it’s also fun!

@PeterStudz this is a fantastic picture you're painting, I really should give it a go myself. My journey into astronomy was similar - a couple of years ago we bought a telescope for my youngest daughter (similar age to yours from what I've read on here) and it's kind of gone from there. The trick will be to keep the kids involved and not get carried away on my own.

Although neither of them have the stamina to spend ages in the cold, they are interested to come and have a look. Oh, and they also like driving the laptop to capture planetary images or telling the Go-To where to point! 😊

And for everyone else, thank you so much for the inspiration about visual astronomy. I'm surprised at the level of responses I've seen. The other night I was out with the scope - I ended up capturing way more planetary images then I have time to process and I'm inclined next time to allow way more time for visual and try some sketching (it also occurred to me the kids might also like to try sketching too).

One thing that really caught my eye during that session was actually while I was polar aligning. I was looking at Vega down the eyepiece at the time, but what really caught my eye was the more faint stars surrounding it. The 150PDS with it's supplied 2" 28mm eyepiece seems to do a great job of resolving these. I'll have to make a sketch next time 🔭👍

Edited January 6, 2023 by imakebeer
spelling

[munirocks]

To me, looking through the eyepiece is like standing in front of an original painting in an art museum. Seeing a print or electronic copy just isn't the same.

And there are some targets, the moon in particular, where the simultaneous wide view, resolution, and crisp detail seen through the eyepiece is simply not replicated with current amateur imaging technology. You'd have to find the highest res chip available and own an imax screen to replicate yhe experience. The only moon photograph that I have seen that even begins to approach the view seen through the eyepiece is the large 7 metre inflatable "Museum of the Moon" sculpture/print. I spent an enjoyable two hours walking around that thing with binoculars in Leicester Cathedral a few years back, and highly recommend it.

[Lee_P]

I'm very much an imager, but for one night a few weeks back I swapped out my camera for a Baader Hyperion Zoom eyepiece. The Moon through my 130mm refractor was absolutely incredible. I coaxed my wife out of the warm living room to take a look, and we gave our three year-old her first peek through a telescope too! Jupiter was also fantastic, and I was excited to make out some surface features on Mars. It's just a shame that I'm in the centre of a city, so DSO's look underwhelming. Those bright targets though... utterly fantastic. I can see how people get hooked on visual. It's a shame that it's a hassle to swap my telescope over from imaging to visual and then back again. I've got a small, portable refractor for visual (I sometimes do public engagement / outreach work with it), but the views through the big 'frac were definitely next level.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Lee_P

[imakebeer]

On 30/12/2022 at 10:15, F15Rules said:

If your scope is well collimated, you should comfortably split the following:

Castor in Gemini, Rigel in Orion, Alnitak (lowest star in Orion's Belt), Polaris (the Pole star of course).

I just split my first binary star and literally gasped like a little kid the instant I saw it and jumped up and down excitedly! 🤣😊🤩

I went out for an hour or two earlier this evening, dodging clouds and determined just to do some visual. Pointed the scope at Almach and there it was, bang in the centre of the FOV, the big yellow one and the smaller blue one staring back at me.

(Apologies if I have the whole double/binary star terminology wrong for Almach, I'm aware there's a difference - Stellarium says it's a "spectroscopic binary")

I'm intrigued to understand more about the two stars, what the colours tell us about their size etc. as I'm only vaguely aware of the science 

I also had a look at the Hyades which I've never really looked at before - it's like a triangle of 3 pairs (double?) of stars and reminds me of The Predator's laser sight! 😂

My daughter also joined me - she loved using the Synscan controller to point the scope. We had a look at Jupiter and looked up which moon was which, then Mars, and then we looked at Uranus and Neptune, neither of which I've ever actually looked at before. Neptune is so faint, but there's a star just up/down from it that is marginally brighter.

Alas, the clouds rolled in again so I called it a night, but that was fun and I'm pleased to have shared some of it with my daughter 😊

[Sunshine]

15 minutes ago, imakebeer said:

I just split my first binary star and literally gasped like a little kid the instant I saw it and jumped up and down excitedly! 🤣😊🤩

I went out for an hour or two earlier this evening, dodging clouds and determined just to do some visual. Pointed the scope at Almach and there it was, bang in the centre of the FOV, the big yellow one and the smaller blue one staring back at me.

(Apologies if I have the whole double/binary star terminology wrong for Almach, I'm aware there's a difference - Stellarium says it's a "spectroscopic binary")

I'm intrigued to understand more about the two stars, what the colours tell us about their size etc. as I'm only vaguely aware of the science 

I also had a look at the Hyades which I've never really looked at before - it's like a triangle of 3 pairs (double?) of stars and reminds me of The Predator's laser sight! 😂

My daughter also joined me - she loved using the Synscan controller to point the scope. We had a look at Jupiter and looked up which moon was which, then Mars, and then we looked at Uranus and Neptune, neither of which I've ever actually looked at before. Neptune is so faint, but there's a star just up/down from it that is marginally brighter.

Alas, the clouds rolled in again so I called it a night, but that was fun and I'm pleased to have shared some of it with my daughter 😊

You split stars, saw planets, and more importantly you had a great time with your daughter, you can't ask for better.

[bosun21]

On 30/12/2022 at 20:44, mikeDnight said:

Years later my wife and I were lucky enough to be invited to visit Patrick at his Selsey home

I can remember constantly begging my parents to let me stay up to watch the Sky at Night as it was past my usual bedtime . They always gave in as they saw it as an educational program. I was hooked so young.

[F15Rules]

Great stuff @imakebeer😊

Almach  is one of the jewels of the Northern skies..

Here's some more info on the system (credit: Wikipedia):

"Observation

An image of γ Andromedae (Almach) as it appears in a small telescope..

In 1778, German physicist Johann Tobias Mayer discovered that γ Andromedae is a double star. When examined in a small telescope, it appears to be a bright, golden-yellow star next to a dimmer, indigo-blue star, separated by approximately 10 arc seconds.

The pair is often considered by stargazers to be a beautiful double star with a striking contrast of color.

The brighter member, γ1 Andromedae, is the primary of the system, and is thus designated component γ Andromedae A. It has the official proper name Almach /ˈælmæk/, which was used as the traditional name of the naked eye star, and thus the system as a whole.

The fainter secondary is γ2 Andromedae or γ Andromedae B. It was later discovered that γ2 Andromedae is itself a triple star system. What appears as a single star to the naked eye is thus a quadruple star system."

It's great to hear about you and your daughter discovering the joys of visual observing together!🤗👍

Dave

[RobertI]

Great observing session, some nice objects there. If you loved what you saw, then you have a lot more to look forward to. Yes I agree totally about the Hyades looking like the Predator laser pointer! 

[imakebeer]

21 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

It was later discovered that γ2 Andromedae is itself a triple star system. What appears as a single star to the naked eye is thus a quadruple star system."

Wow! That really is mind-blowing! 🤯🤯🤯😲😲😁😁

[wesdon1]

11 hours ago, Sunshine said:

You split stars, saw planets, and more importantly you had a great time with your daughter, you can't ask for better.

I was just about to say exact same thing myself! those precious moments with his daughter will stay with her for her entire life, and she will reflect back on them in later life with great fondness and happiness...

[wesdon1]

On 27/12/2022 at 20:50, imakebeer said:

Question for all you visual-only astronomers:

What are y'all looking at through the eyepiece? Please inspire me!

In my short newbie astronomy journey I've headed off down the AP route and I feel like I'm missing out sometimes, starting down at a laptop instead of up at the stars.

Once the gear (SW150PDS + HEQ5 GoTo, by the way) is set up and taking umpteen photos I sometimes sure back, let my eyes adjust and take it in, maybe with a pair of binos.

Pleiades, Orion nebula, Jupiter and its moons, Saturn and its rings... All genuinely impressive through the eyepiece... But then what?

In a photo of say M31 you can make out the galaxy(s) of course which are hard/impossible to see visually (and M31 is it of the brighter ones!), and then bajillions of more distant stars all around - and surely you can't possibly see these visually, even with a really big scope?

But it seems like what you can see visually, even with a half decent scope, is so much more finite - right? (or wrong?) In my previous 70mm/900mm frac, M31 was just a faint smudge and really missed.

So please inspire me! I haven't done much visual with the 150PDS but I'd like to. So how do you keep motivated and fund enough stuff to look at year after year? What do you go looking for?

(I'm guessing a GoTo kinda spoils the fun and art of star hopping to actually get your scope pointed in the right place!)

Cheers & thanks in advance 👍😁🔭

I got into visual Astro some 5+ years ago. Here's a list of what I find very rewarding to look at through my 'scopes...splitting double stars, triplet star systems etc, looking at open and globular star clusters, finding really really faint SS objects, like asteroids, the PLANET Pluto ( lol ),finding Ceres, finding the brighter nebulae, and using different filters to try make them more pronounced against the night sky, viewing Jupiter's moons every 20-30 minutes to follow their movement around Jupiter. ( some people like to sketch what they see, also ) I also like to try see Venus and Mercury's phases, using a variable polarising filter ( cheap, about £20-30, definitely worth it! ) or sometimes I simply pan across the night sky, slowly, and seeing if I spot anything unusual? ( and I have! I have seen 3 different bizarre "objects", that, to this day, I have no idea what they were!? ) This list is not exhaustive, but hopefully you will spot something in it that you like and/or haven't tried yourself yet!? 

About M31 Andromeda Galaxy being super faint/almost impossible to see visually...I live in Bortle7, but have terrible white light LCD main road street lights shining right into my telescope, but I can still see M31 quite well with 8 inch reflector. You know that technique they tell you to use, called "averted vision" well it really really does work! I use the technique with M31, and I swear the core brightens up by a factor of a couple of magnitudes! I think even with a 6 inch reflector, you should still get a good view of the core using the aforementioned technique!"? Please try it if you haven't done so already.

Clear Skies my friend! 

Edited January 9, 2023 by wesdon1
forgot to include M31 info

[markse68]

Visual is awesome and it’s great you enjoyed your first session and your daughter too. There’s so much to see up there even from light polluted skies. I can spend an evening just trying to find and split challenging double stars. A fun game is trying to identify Jupiters moons visually. Ganymede is the biggest brightest, Callisto is noticeably darker than the others, gets a bit tricky with the other 2 as they’re similar but Europa is the smallest. 

Another nice colourful double similar to Almach is the “winter Albireo” HJ3945

How about some nice triples? Tegmine, Iota Cassiopeiae and Beta Mon are all favourites and in pretty good positions at the moment

Mark

[imakebeer]

7 hours ago, markse68 said:

Another nice colourful double similar to Almach is the “winter Albireo” HJ3945

How about some nice triples? Tegmine, Iota Cassiopeiae and Beta Mon are all favourites and in pretty good positions at the moment

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check them out 👍

Incidentally, while I was out the other night I also had a look at Polaris and - ooh, can't remember now, it was either Rigel or Alnitek, both in Orion - anyway, I was unable to split either...

Not sure if these are particularly challenging, but equally it could have been a misted up eyepiece, Polaris was just in the treetops and Orion was just peeking over the top of my house.

For some reason I'm also determined to try and see Epsilon Lyrae but as soon as Vega appears it's almost disappearing being trees for me so this might have to wait 6-9 months.

[F15Rules]

Polaris isn't difficult but the magnitude difference (c. mag 2 for Polaris vs mag 9 for the companion) is large. But you should see it as a tiny speck at c 7 o'clock vs Polaris on a clear night.

Rigel can be a little difficult if the sky is murky or unsteady, but usually doable at c 7" distance.

Alnitak is the most difficult at c 2.4" and needs steady skies. 

Epsilon Lyrae is a real treat and worth waiting for..you'll need c 100x magnification to be sure of the split of each pair, sitting at right angle orientation to each other, just beautiful.

I'm sure you will get them all before long👍  - there's no going back now!😂

Dave

Edited January 10, 2023 by F15Rules
Typo

[Spile]

Can I put in a recommendation for Castor? Two piercing, bright white diamonds.

[mikeDnight]

On 10/01/2023 at 21:30, Spile said:

Can I put in a recommendation for Castor? Two piercing, bright white diamonds.

I know this was posted some time ago, but i was looking at Castor a few days ago (April), and they did look white with one slightly brighter than the other. A truly beautiful sight!  It was then I remembered past observations of this double star, and that to my eyes at least, the secondary has the slightest hint of pink. Once I paid a bit more attention it did appear to show a mild pink hue. I'm not certain if this is actual or just my colour perception. It would be interesting to hear what others think!

Edited May 1, 2023 by mikeDnight

[dweller25]

I was looking at Castor 90 minutes ago, a truly glorious sight 🙂

Mars was not so glorious though ☹️

 

[bomberbaz]

On 29/12/2022 at 09:42, RobertI said:

Interesting to hear that Steve, I have always struggled with this one in my largest scope (8” SCT), never clearly seen the crescent shape, although I’ve never tried from a dark sky. Do you think my 8” in a dark sky would be able to show it clearly? 

Sorry Rob but I have only just seen your query directed at me from the end of last year.  I think the reason you are struggling with seeing this object is your exit pupil although you don't state any viewing details, let me elaborate.

My dob may be a light bucket in comparison but the key here is the focal ratio. At F4.86, a 24mm eyepiece gives a near 5mm exit pupil (24/4.86) so all that lovely light we need is spread over as many receptors as possible, 5mm is seen as something of a perfect size when using a line filter, OIII in this instance.  Also my magnification is 71

Now let's look at your F10 SCT, generally used for planetary work and star clusters etc. A 25mm eyepiece is going to give you around x85 magnification but the exit pupil is only going to be 2.5mm! (25/10) There in lies the problem.

Just to elaborate on this a 2.5mm exit pupil cover and area of 0.04909 cm2 and a 5mm exit pupil covers 0.19635 cm2 which is 4 times greater. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure which will give best views on feint fuzzies.

However a way around this is to use a reducer  Celestron f6.3 Focal Reducer | First Light Optics and you have a scope that should perform pretty well on nebula and galaxy. Pop a 32mm plossl or similar in that and presto, 40x magnification and more importantly, a 5mm exit pupil. 

[RobertI]

On 02/05/2023 at 15:21, bomberbaz said:

Sorry Rob but I have only just seen your query directed at me from the end of last year.  I think the reason you are struggling with seeing this object is your exit pupil although you don't state any viewing details, let me elaborate.

My dob may be a light bucket in comparison but the key here is the focal ratio. At F4.86, a 24mm eyepiece gives a near 5mm exit pupil (24/4.86) so all that lovely light we need is spread over as many receptors as possible, 5mm is seen as something of a perfect size when using a line filter, OIII in this instance.  Also my magnification is 71

Now let's look at your F10 SCT, generally used for planetary work and star clusters etc. A 25mm eyepiece is going to give you around x85 magnification but the exit pupil is only going to be 2.5mm! (25/10) There in lies the problem.

Just to elaborate on this a 2.5mm exit pupil cover and area of 0.04909 cm2 and a 5mm exit pupil covers 0.19635 cm2 which is 4 times greater. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure which will give best views on feint fuzzies.

However a way around this is to use a reducer  Celestron f6.3 Focal Reducer | First Light Optics and you have a scope that should perform pretty well on nebula and galaxy. Pop a 32mm plossl or similar in that and presto, 40x magnification and more importantly, a 5mm exit pupil. 

Thanks for your help Steve, appreciated. I hadn’t really considered the exit pupil aspect, that’s a good thought. I have always worked on the basis that I didn’t really want to go below 68 degrees FOV which limits me to a 24mm eyepiece in an SCT, but what I didn’t really consider is the limitation on the exit pupil. Your excellent suggestion of a 32mm Plossl gets around that, at the cost of a narrower field of view of course. And I do have a 0.63 reducer which I use most of the time. Before I rush out and buy a 32mm Plossl, do you think my 38mm 2” eyepiece might also work? There will be vignetting at the edges but I’m assuming the central 50 degrees will be no worse than a Plossl?