Inspire me about visual astronomy

[imakebeer]

Question for all you visual-only astronomers:

What are y'all looking at through the eyepiece? Please inspire me!

In my short newbie astronomy journey I've headed off down the AP route and I feel like I'm missing out sometimes, starting down at a laptop instead of up at the stars.

Once the gear (SW150PDS + HEQ5 GoTo, by the way) is set up and taking umpteen photos I sometimes sure back, let my eyes adjust and take it in, maybe with a pair of binos.

Pleiades, Orion nebula, Jupiter and its moons, Saturn and its rings... All genuinely impressive through the eyepiece... But then what?

In a photo of say M31 you can make out the galaxy(s) of course which are hard/impossible to see visually (and M31 is it of the brighter ones!), and then bajillions of more distant stars all around - and surely you can't possibly see these visually, even with a really big scope?

But it seems like what you can see visually, even with a half decent scope, is so much more finite - right? (or wrong?) In my previous 70mm/900mm frac, M31 was just a faint smudge and really missed.

So please inspire me! I haven't done much visual with the 150PDS but I'd like to. So how do you keep motivated and fund enough stuff to look at year after year? What do you go looking for?

(I'm guessing a GoTo kinda spoils the fun and art of star hopping to actually get your scope pointed in the right place!)

Cheers & thanks in advance 👍😁🔭

[westmarch]

You know the satisfaction (or in AP, perhaps the lack of frustration) you get when when every little electronic gizmo and software enhancement works the way it should?

Finding your target by star hopping or teasing out the observational detail, during a moment of perfect seeing, is similar.  It is like turning up an interesting object with a metal detector, or an angler getting a bite. Sometimes the journey is as interesting as the destination.

John

Edited December 27, 2022 by westmarch

[Franklin]

Don't know about inspirational but I'll give it a go.

For people who have no particular interest in astronomy, there are only a handful of observable objects that offer a "wow" moment when looking through a telescope. 

A lot of objects just look like a tiny grey smudge of light, nothing like what imaging can produce. But that's not the point, just being out under the stars and successfully locating night-sky objects is very rewarding. Some targets are indeed invisible with direct vision and can only be glimpsed using averted vision (looking to the side but concentrating where you expect the target to be). When I first used averted vision, as a youngster, it was like having a magical power. Doing your homework and actually learning about the physical properties of objects is a must. M31 may be just a smudge of light, but to know that that light has travelled across the universe for over 2.2 million years to reach your eye, makes the observation rewarding. This is true of all targets, the heavens are seasonal, old favorites reappear like clockwork year after year, yet a whole lifetime of observation is nothing on the cosmic timeframe. Then there are transient phenomena such as eclipses, transits, meteors, comets and many others, some of these events happen only once in your life! It's very special to witness these things but again, only if you have a real interest in astronomy. Serious observers are actually out there doing science and send reports in to places like the BAA, measuring double stars, variable stars, hunting for nova and supernova. It really is amazing, but for me, a casual stargazer, it's a break from the day to day world and I find stargazing to be a great aid in stress relief. Being under the stars and contemplating the universe above is a very calming and quite a therapeutic thing. But only when everything goes right of course. Setting up in the freezing cold and the mount not working and then the clouds roll in and then it rains for months can all be quite stressful as well. Got my first scope age 10, I'm now 55 and still game!

[NGC 1502]

Tough question to adequately answer….but I’ll try…….

For me visual observing is king. I’ve been doing that since buying my first scope in 1979, a used 4.5” reflector on an EQ mount. Back then manually finding objects was the only way it was done.  Therefore it’s long been second nature and most of the popular targets and many more obscure ones are easy to find if you’ve been doing that for decades. I realise that imaging gives many folk a buzz, but not for me. If I want an image I just do an online search and there it is. For me an image is second hand, even if it shows much more than visual.  I’m afraid I don’t agree with those that say not many objects are visually inspiring, just the opposite for me.

Nowadays almost all my observing is from my back garden in a large town. The convenience of setting up at a moment’s notice trumps the frustration of second guessing cloud cover and traveling.  Been there done that so many frustrating times to find the wonderful forecast of clear skies did not happen.

My nighttime scopes vary from my 70mm TV Pronto to my 10” Dob. The 10” is an old OO UK that’s been much modified over the years. Its got excellent optics that hold collimation very well, is easily set up in a jiffy, no hassle just great views.

Back in 2012 I deliberately just used my 70mm Pronto for a whole year to see how much a modest aperture would reveal from a town back yard.  I sketched everything I saw and have the results compiled in a folder. It’s a thick folder full of visual delights, including Barnard’s Star that I first found many years earlier in a much larger scope.

From my back yard I observe all types of object whatever is there. Solar system planets, the moon, comets, asteroids. Deep-sky, galaxies, open and globular clusters, double/multiple stars, planetary nebulae…….  All inspire me to observe the fabulous magnificence of the universe I am privileged to be part of….  We are “starstuff” with the comprehension to understand our place.

Did I mention I love my observing? 😁

 

[mikeDnight]

On 27/12/2022 at 20:50, imakebeer said:

Question for all you visual-only astronomers:

What are y'all looking at through the eyepiece? Please inspire me!

In my short newbie astronomy journey I've headed off down the AP route and I feel like I'm missing out sometimes, starting down at a laptop instead of up at the stars.

Once the gear (SW150PDS + HEQ5 GoTo, by the way) is set up and taking umpteen photos I sometimes sure back, let my eyes adjust and take it in, maybe with a pair of binos.

Pleiades, Orion nebula, Jupiter and its moons, Saturn and its rings... All genuinely impressive through the eyepiece... But then what?

In a photo of say M31 you can make out the galaxy(s) of course which are hard/impossible to see visually (and M31 is it of the brighter ones!), and then bajillions of more distant stars all around - and surely you can't possibly see these visually, even with a really big scope?

But it seems like what you can see visually, even with a half decent scope, is so much more finite - right? (or wrong?) In my previous 70mm/900mm frac, M31 was just a faint smudge and really missed.

So please inspire me! I haven't done much visual with the 150PDS but I'd like to. So how do you keep motivated and fund enough stuff to look at year after year? What do you go looking for?

(I'm guessing a GoTo kinda spoils the fun and art of star hopping to actually get your scope pointed in the right place!)

Cheers & thanks in advance 👍😁🔭

What a brilliant post. 

When I started out in astronomy over 40 years ago, photography as it was then was nothing like today. Visual observers could make valuable observations that very often outstripped the majority of photographs in detail - I'm talking about observational sketches. Although today imaging has under most circumstances, made sketching all but obsolete as far as creating a scientific record; it has not replaced visual observing.

I'm what you might call "old school", or a bit of a dinosaur. I'm a purely visual observer, and an avid sketcher.  Sketching is a powerful visual observing aid. It forces the observer to slow down and search out the most subtle nuances in an object under scrutiny. I find that as wonderful as images are, they are a little like the art of taxidermy, in that they show an object frozen in time, and often cooked to reveal an aspect of a feature rather than the whole as it truly is. Visual observing when done correctly, shows the object to be alive, and its features presented differently, more subtle and almost three dimensional compared to those in an image.

You asked to be inspired. I hope you enjoy the following mix of my observations, from lunar & planetary; brighter deep sky & Comets, and Double star, to planetary mapping and globe making. Most of the following have been observed through a 4" refractor.

 

 

The two Mars globes below were made using observations from the 2016 (small globe) and 2020 apparition (large globe). They are spray painted stainless steel balls, and the detail was added by using graphite applied using cotton ear buds. Edges sharpened using a putty eraser, then overcoated with spray on clear lacquer. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by mikeDnight

[NGC 1502]

The above sketches should be pinned for all to see….

Fabulous, inspiring, congratulations……

Ed.

[JeremyS]

Truly inspiring @mikeDnight 👍🏻

[Franklin]

@mikeDnight have you ever considered writing a book on astronomical sketching techniques? Your work is outstanding!

[imakebeer]

Ditto @mikeDnight, those sketches are magnificent in their own right. I have an engineer's eye for detail and can work in a methodical and analytical way to learn how to take and process photographs... But sadly I've never had the artistic flair to be able to create artwork like that 👍👍👍

[Sunshine]

This past summer I attended a large star party where countless imagers set up their rigs and went to sleep at 11pm, the actual amateur astronomers stayed up till morning

sharing views through each others scopes, discussing past experiences, having a drink or two, and best of all exchanging numbers so that we could keep in touch. Imagers had

the audacity to ask me why there wasn't a camera on my scope instead of an eyepiece, my response was because a camera was incapable of grasping the sheer grandeur of 

what it was seeing. This is not to say I have an issue with imagers or I will never one day have a go at imaging but, never will I run in the house on a beautiful night and let my camera steal

the universe from me.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Sunshine

[mikeDnight]

I have thought about it, but i think there are already a few on the scene that cover most of the techniques.  I have thought about making a short video showing how I complete various sketches, but it would likely need subtitles so that those north or south of Lancashire and Yorkshire could understand it. 

[imakebeer]

1 hour ago, Franklin said:

M31 may be just a smudge of light, but to know that that light has travelled across the universe for over 2.2 million years to reach your eye, makes the observation rewarding.

Yeah that fact hadn't escaped me when I started imaging M31 recently - the way I think of it is slightly different though... Those photons that we're seeing now - well they left M31 roughly about the time the first humans appeared on earth... Something to pause and think about...

1 hour ago, Franklin said:

it's a break from the day to day world and I find stargazing to be a great aid in stress relief. Being under the stars and contemplating the universe above is a very calming and quite a therapeutic thing.

Yep, this is important. I've certainly found I enjoy the peace and quiet being in the cool evening air. Not so much the streetlights though!

46 minutes ago, NGC 1502 said:

I realise that imaging gives many folk a buzz, but not for me. If I want an image I just do an online search and there it is.

I agree - I knew Jupiter had moons for example, but so what. But then it's a different thing altogether to actually see them for yourself, right there in your eyepiece. Or to realise there's a whole other galaxy, right there, floating just above my garden a mere 2 million light years away!

 

[imakebeer]

14 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

countless imagers set up their rigs and went to sleep at 11pm

I think you've encapsulated it right there.

I like imaging - it appeals to my analytical nature, understanding what I did right, what I need to improve next time etc, gradually honing technique...

But then to come indoors and just leave the gear to do its thing? Spending time indoors with the family is important - but it still niggles that you're inside watching some garbage on TV when you could be enjoying something much more spectacular outside.

FWIW I do encourage them to come out and see if it's not too late, with a little success here and there 👍

It's almost like I need a second purely visual scope while the imaging one is doing its thing... Oh dear, this is how it starts isn't! 😂

[mikeDnight]

12 minutes ago, imakebeer said:

Ditto @mikeDnight, those sketches are magnificent in their own right. I have an engineer's eye for detail and can work in a methodical and analytical way to learn how to take and process photographs... But sadly I've never had the artistic flair to be able to create artwork like that 👍👍👍

 I'm sure you're not alone in doubting your artistic ability, but artistic skill isn't so important. The simple act of putting pencil to paper somehow engages a critical eye. The end result isn't that important, as simply scribbling down detail has helped you to understand whats actually visible in the eyepiece.  I use two sketch books. The rough sketch book is what i use at the telescope, and it contains scribbles and crossing outs as i correct mistakes, and as the subtle detail gradually reveals itself. Then soon after finishing observing, I'll make a cleaned up version of the eyepiece sketch in my other sketch book.

 Of course not all visual observers choose to draw. Some write notes, which serves the same purpose as sketching as it focuses the observers attention in a critical way. A friend of mine uses a dictaphone at the telescope, then makes written notes when back inside. The reason I like to sketch is that I'm inherently lazy, and find it much easier to look back at my sketches rather than reading pages of notes. I hope you give it a go sometime in the future. You may find its not as hard as you might first imagine. 

[Sunshine]

1 minute ago, imakebeer said:

I think you've encapsulated it right there.

I like imaging - it appeals to my analytical nature, understanding what I did right, what I need to improve next time etc, gradually honing technique...

But then to come indoors and just leave the gear to do its thing? Spending time indoors with the family is important - but it still niggles that you're inside watching some garbage on TV when you could be enjoying something much more spectacular outside.

FWIW I do encourage them to come out and see if it's not too late, with a little success here and there 👍

It's almost like I need a second purely visual scope while the imaging one is doing its thing... Oh dear, this is how it starts isn't! 😂

If I get into DSO imaging I will always have my second scope out so I can enjoy the sky while my other scope does its thing, this would be the perfect marriage.

[Sunshine]

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

Sketching is a powerful visual observing aid.

Your sketches are absolutely wonderful! I especially like the double star sketches, I would buy a coffee table book of your sketches, all the while wishing I could sketch as beautifully.

[mikeDnight]

9 minutes ago, imakebeer said:

It's almost like I need a second purely visual scope while the imaging one is doing its thing... Oh dear, this is how it starts isn't! 😂

Here's where it begins to hurt. 🇯🇵

[RobertI]

4 hours ago, imakebeer said:

Question for all you visual-only astronomers:

What are y'all looking at through the eyepiece? Please inspire me!

In my short newbie astronomy journey I've headed off down the AP route and I feel like I'm missing out sometimes, starting down at a laptop instead of up at the stars.

Once the gear (SW150PDS + HEQ5 GoTo, by the way) is set up and taking umpteen photos I sometimes sure back, let my eyes adjust and take it in, maybe with a pair of binos.

Pleiades, Orion nebula, Jupiter and its moons, Saturn and its rings... All genuinely impressive through the eyepiece... But then what?

In a photo of say M31 you can make out the galaxy(s) of course which are hard/impossible to see visually (and M31 is it of the brighter ones!), and then bajillions of more distant stars all around - and surely you can't possibly see these visually, even with a really big scope?

But it seems like what you can see visually, even with a half decent scope, is so much more finite - right? (or wrong?) In my previous 70mm/900mm frac, M31 was just a faint smudge and really missed.

So please inspire me! I haven't done much visual with the 150PDS but I'd like to. So how do you keep motivated and fund enough stuff to look at year after year? What do you go looking for?

(I'm guessing a GoTo kinda spoils the fun and art of star hopping to actually get your scope pointed in the right place!)

Cheers & thanks in advance 👍😁🔭

Well I think @mikeDnight has demonstrated perfectly how visual astronomy can be inspiring!

Perhaps galaxies and nebulae aren’t the the most exciting, but there’s a lifetime’s worth of other amazing objects to see visually. Here’s  some of the the reasons I love visual observing:

• The sheer beauty of clusters, doubles and coloured stars (such as carbon stars) which are hard to match digitally IMO
• The magical 3D view of the moon and planets, especially through binoviewers
• The thrill of accidentally finding something new and amazing (done that plenty of times)
• The satisfaction of finally tracking down that elusive faint fuzzy or close double, sometimes having to use every technique and tool in your armoury
• Finding old friends, who sometimes have something new to give (the Veil is a particular favourite) 
• Being able to almost achieve the impossible with very small apertures 
• Enjoying the simplicity of a beautiful precision optical instrument on a manual mount
• Being relaxed, at peace and at one with nature under the stars

Your 150PDS should give some lovely views and reveal plenty. I’d suggest choosing a couple of prominent constellations (eg: Orion and Auriga) and list out the brightest objects in them (open clusters, globulars, doubles and nebulae), and then start working your way through the list. Hope it inspires you too.

Edited December 28, 2022 by RobertI

[mikeDnight]

I was fortunate enough to meet a couple of local amateurs when I was a teenager, and they acted as mentors as well as ending up being good friends. They were both quite a bit older than I was, so I listened to every word they said. Their combined guidance and encouragement was invaluable to me. One in particular, Derek, encouraged me down the refractor line, and I have to admit that after 43 years at the eyepiece I've never been disappointed.  I'm also reasonably certain that if I'd been introduced to reflectors early on  I would be in exactly the same place as I am now. It was their enthusiasm that fuelled me. A big influence on me was the  autobiography by Leslie C. Peltier, Starlight Nights, the adventures of a Stargazer. Peltier was a dynamic and prolific observer. His passion was variable stars and comets, and he used refractors, so naturally as an easily influenced teenager I began to see refractors as not only beautiful telescopes, but powerful multipurpose instruments. It seemed there was virtually nothing they weren't good at. Reading Starlight Nights for yourself may just help ignite that visual flame. And of course association with other visual observers can help greatly too.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by mikeDnight

[Roy Challen]

@mikeDnight, your sketches are indeed inspiring. I do try, and I think I'm improving but only because I sketch one object - the sun. 

I'm mildly surprised that no one has mentioned hydrogen alpha observing yet, but for visual, nothing beats looking at an extremely dynamic object on a nice sunny day😃. Seeing can be difficult sometimes, but you won't have to worry about light pollution, and despite what you think of the weather, it is more likely that you'll see the sun more often than your desired night time targets. Of the 120 - odd sessions I've had this year, 75% have been solar.

7/12/2022, 12:13-12:32

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Roy Challen

[JeremyS]

Many very wise words above. Perhaps another thing to consider is rather that flitting between the usual suspects during and evening, work out which type of object gains your interest most and start an observing project around it. Perhaps it is DSOs, or the Moon, or planets, variable stars, double stars. Get to know them, to study and observe them. This could then lead to a systemic observing programme and perhaps submitting your observations to an organisation like the BAA where they can be analysed along with other observers’ observations. You might find you get drawn in more and more if you have a focus at the centre of your observing.

leslie Peltier, whom Mike mentioned, was a great variable stars observers. It’s my forte too. Peltier described the excitement of waiting for nightfall to see how “his” variables were doing.

As an example of another subject, have a look at the Mars drawings on the BAA Mars section blog: https://britastro.org/section_news_item/mars-opposition-blog-14-december-2022

 

 

[Ratlet]

I started wanting to do astro and much like yourself felt it was a waste of an evening to sit inside whilst I hoped the camera did it's thing.  So I picked a 130pds and used camera lenses for imaging.  After all if I didn't get on with visual then I've got an imaging ready scope.

Well, as it panned out I've taken 3 images with the 130pds, all on the same night as I just can't give it up for imaging when I could be looking through it.

On an evening when there is a decent clear skies I'll set up the 130pds on az5 and leave it to cool whilst I put the imaging rig together and get it going.  I then leave it alone and do some visual.  If there is some cloud then I just go straight to visual.

I can't really describe why it's so satisfying.  I've read other descriptions from people here and they are true but it's a bit like saying the sun is bright.  True statement but it doesn't catch it all.

@mikeDnight's sketches are fantastic.  But guess what, they don't have to be and they are still awesome.  I have precisely zero artistic talent but absolutely love sketching.  It's so easy and cheap.  And it helps you actively observe.  You are actively looking for detail when you sketch and you end up seeing more.

I take the view that my sketches are diagnostic.  I use them to confirm I saw what I thought I saw.  Doesn't stop me from practicing though and from wanting to get better.  I've even started sketching my astro images when it is cloudy!

The only downside to visual observing is the time passes so quickly.  You'll end up coming in at 0100 asking what happend to the previous 3 hours.

Astro imaging is something I do to share astronomy with normal people, where their lack of experience fills in the gap between the object and my lack of talent.

Visual astronomy and sketching is something I do for myself largely but you can share it here where the members experience makes up for my lack of talent lol.

[Franklin]

Looking at all of these fantastic sketches reminds me of leafing through Mallas and Kreimer's classic book "The Messier Album", all made through a 4" Unitron back in the day.

[AstroNash]

10 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

What a brilliant post. 

When I started out in astronomy over 40 years ago, photography as it was then was nothing like today. Visual observers could make valuable observations that very often outstripped the majority of photographs in detail - I'm talking about observational sketches. Although today imaging has under most circumstances, made sketching all but obsolete as far as creating a scientific record; it has not replaced visual observing.

I'm what you might call "old school", or a bit of a dinosaur. I'm a purely visual observer, and an avid sketcher.  Sketching is a powerful visual observing aid. It forces the observer to slow down and search out the most subtle nuances in an object under scrutiny. I find that as wonderful as images are, they are a little like the art of taxidermy, in that they show an object frozen in time, and often cooked to reveal an aspect of a feature rather than the whole as it truly is. Visual observing when done correctly, shows the object to be alive, and its features presented differently, more subtle and almost three dimensional compared to those in an image.

You asked to be inspired. I hope you enjoy the following mix of my observations, from lunar & planetary; brighter deep sky & Comets, and Double star, to planetary mapping and globe making. Most of the following have been observed through a 4" refractor.

 

 

Loved this, thank you. I should also add Mike, that it was your posts that inspired me to get into visual astronomy and to get an FC100!

[mikeDnight]

On 28/12/2022 at 09:01, Franklin said:

Looking at all of these fantastic sketches reminds me of leafing through Mallas and Kreimer's classic book "The Messier Album", all made through a 4" Unitron back in the day.

Mallas & Kramers Messier Album had me enthralled. Kramers photographs, for the time, were awesome; even more awesome for me were Mallas's drawings and the fact he only used a 4" refractor, albeit a Unitron, which in the 1950's were close to house prices for Mallas model. The single photo in the book of John Mallas twiddling with his Unitron refractor was as inspirational to me as his drawings, and when I eventually afforded to buy a second-hand 4" F13 Vixen achromat in 1986, I felt I'd won the lottery. I've spent thousands since then and still have a 4" refractor. Well, 3.9", just before someone corrects me.

Two inspiring books for the visual observer.

 

 

John Mallas with his telescope.

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by mikeDnight