Inspire me about visual astronomy

[imakebeer]

3 hours ago, F15Rules said:

Castor in Gemini, Rigel in Orion, Alnitak (lowest star in Orion's Belt), Polaris (the Pole star of course).

Plenty there to get me started and keep me out of mischief for a little while - thanks 👍

3 hours ago, Ratlet said:

Truck on over the M42 when you have a chance next

Thanks, and also thanks for the tip about the lens cap 👍 I've photographed M31, 42 and 45 a bit (and 33) but will return for some visual only.

M45 was one of the first things we looked at when we got the frac - I still remember being amazed how the fuzzy patch you can only just see unaided resolved into this dense cluster of stars! 😁

[bomberbaz]

8 hours ago, imakebeer said:

Nice tip, thanks, I'll try it 👍

The PDS only comes with the 28mm 2", but there's also a 1.25" adapter...

And I have the 25 & 10mm eyepieces that came with the frac, plus 2x, 3x & 5x Barlows...

So the 10mm + 2x Barlow will get me to 150x which ought to do it as long as the optics are sharp enough - and at least the HEQ5 should be rather more steady than the wobbly EQ1 to do that magnification justice!

I would use the 25mm with the 3x barlow or even 5 times to get you higher power. More eye relief, much easier to place your eyeball and an overall more comfortable experience. 

[mikeDnight]

 Thinking back to what inspired me at the very beginning of my astro hobby, I have to first give credit to Patrick Moore and his monthly Sky At Night tv program. I had very little spare cash as I was only a poor apprentice plumber earning £21 per week, most of which I gave to my mum. However, I was able to buy my first astronomy book the Observers Book of Astronomy (£1.99). It was only a small book but the photograph of Patrick's 5" refractor set my heart racing.   A week later I bought Guide to the Moon (£7.50), also by Patrick, and was totally hooked. I loved the fact that he wrote like he spoke, and I was so engrossed in the books contents that I sat in my dad's chair and read it from cover to cover in six and a half hours without moving.  Years later my wife and I were lucky enough to be invited to visit Patrick at his Selsey home "Farthings", where we had dinner with him and stayed over night. He was a perfect gentleman and Chrissy my wife loved him.  We chatted away in his study until well after 2am, and his inspiring spirit was as alive then in his later years as it had ever been. There are probably a great many on this forum who can blame Patrick for infecting them with the Astro bug.  I did eventually get to play with his 5" refractor, although by then it was in need of a little TLC, which it eventually got. You can see the beautiful pictures of Patrick's renovated 5" refractor in Neil English superb book Classic Telescopes, by Springer, which if you haven't yet read, you should. Be warned though, its inspiring!

Yours truly sat in the great man's chair.

 

Another big influencer that comes over time is getting to know astronomers who have similar interests. As I love to draw what I see and I'm mainly interested in planets, Richard Baum and his incredible observing and artistic skill as a planetary observer was a strong motivating force. And his telescope, a 4.5" Cooke refractor, was pretty awesome too.

Edited December 31, 2022 by mikeDnight

[cajen2]

My first ever astronomy book was also PM's The Observer's Book of Astronomy. I used to read it over and over again - I even taught myself the Greek alphabet with it. In fact I'm sure I knew more about astronomy when I was 10 than I do now.....😊

 Still have it....

Edited December 30, 2022 by cajen2

[Louis D]

On 29/12/2022 at 13:39, tomato said:

However, after deciding that my ageing  Mk 1 eyeballs would need all the help they can get, I went for a 16” Dob which takes way more time to wheel out and set up than my dome based imaging rig, oh well…

You could build a Roll-off Dob Shed.

[tomato]

Alas my garden dimensions aren’t in the same league as the Dobsonian…

[RobertI]

On 30/12/2022 at 20:44, mikeDnight said:

Years later my wife and I were lucky enough to be invited to visit Patrick at his Selsey home "Farthings", where we had dinner with him and stayed over night.

How did you wangle that Mike? 😮 What a wonderful experience. I did have the pleasure of having a pint with Patrick after he gave a talk at our local club over forty years ago. As you say a perfect gentleman and gave his time so freely to the astronomy community. 

[mikeDnight]

12 hours ago, RobertI said:

How did you wangle that Mike? 😮 What a wonderful experience. I did have the pleasure of having a pint with Patrick after he gave a talk at our local club over forty years ago. As you say a perfect gentleman and gave his time so freely to the astronomy community. 

 Hi Robert. It was in 2007 when Patrick had noticed  some of my planetary sketches - I think i was the planetary section director for the Society for Popular Astronomy at the time - and so was easily contacted. I recieved a phone call, and briefly chatted with Patrick, ended in him saying "You must come and visit sometime". I can't remember much about what was said as I was in awe that Patrick was talking to me. I know it's silly looking back, but as a teenager many moons ago, Patrick was my hero in many ways. I even had an A4 photo of him on my bedroom wall showing him stood alongside his 15" and smoking a pipe, and hung alongside that, a poster of Bruce Lee with his nunchaku's. I was a mixed up kid! Bruce Lee has now become a thing of the past, but good old Patrick's photo still hangs on the wall of my observatory as a reminder of his lasting influence.  Anyhow, it wasn't too long before my wife and I were on our way to Selsey. When Patrick learned of the distance we'd travelled, from Lancashire to east Sussex, it was he that suggested we stay. It was a very enjoyable couple of days, and within a few days of returning home I recieved a phone call, and the voice on the other end of the line said " Hello, this is Patrick. I'm phoning to say I enjoyed your visit, please do come again, and next time bring your son Daniel..."  Daniel is my younger son who at the time was 13 years old and had an interest in astronomy. I said I would visit again, but sadly never did arrange it. So even after our visit Patrick's focus was on encouraging  my young lad. And encouraging others is what he lived for to the end. I still hold a special place in my heart for him, and gratitude for all that he unknowingly did for me.

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by mikeDnight

[Froeng]

On 27/12/2022 at 20:50, imakebeer said:

Question for all you visual-only astronomers:

What are y'all looking at through the eyepiece? Please inspire me!

In my short newbie astronomy journey I've headed off down the AP route and I feel like I'm missing out sometimes, starting down at a laptop instead of up at the stars.

Once the gear (SW150PDS + HEQ5 GoTo, by the way) is set up and taking umpteen photos I sometimes sure back, let my eyes adjust and take it in, maybe with a pair of binos.

Pleiades, Orion nebula, Jupiter and its moons, Saturn and its rings... All genuinely impressive through the eyepiece... But then what?

In a photo of say M31 you can make out the galaxy(s) of course which are hard/impossible to see visually (and M31 is it of the brighter ones!), and then bajillions of more distant stars all around - and surely you can't possibly see these visually, even with a really big scope?

But it seems like what you can see visually, even with a half decent scope, is so much more finite - right? (or wrong?) In my previous 70mm/900mm frac, M31 was just a faint smudge and really missed.

So please inspire me! I haven't done much visual with the 150PDS but I'd like to. So how do you keep motivated and fund enough stuff to look at year after year? What do you go looking for?

(I'm guessing a GoTo kinda spoils the fun and art of star hopping to actually get your scope pointed in the right place!)

Cheers & thanks in advance 👍😁🔭

To me, visual observing is meaningful as you are using your own eyes to look at the actual objects which are out there. By doing this, you have PROOF these things are not just made up by some electronic wizardry on a computer screen or what somebody might want you to believe…

By observing (not just quickly looking), you are able to see more and more. Once you start sketching, this will improve further. So you are building up a skill to DIRECTLY see the universe as it presents itself. I do find this incredible!

This methodology also almost works like a “vaccination” against all sorts of superstition, flat earthing (not sure this is a term), and the like.

The last aspect is the incredible experience of observing at a dark sky site. The general rule applies: “You don’t need a bigger scope - you need a darker sky!”

Enjoy and take your time…

[RobertI]

4 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

 Hi Robert. It was in 2007 when Patrick had noticed  some of my planetary sketches - I think i was the planetary section director for the Society for Popular Astronomy at the time - and so was easily contacted. I recieved a phone call, and briefly chatted with Patrick, ended in him saying "You must come and visit sometime". I can't remember much about what was said as I was in awe that Patrick was talking to me. I know it's silly looking back, but as a teenager many moons ago, Patrick was my hero in many ways. I even had an A4 photo of him on my bedroom wall showing him stood alongside his 15" and smoking a pipe, and hung alongside that, a poster of Bruce Lee with his nunchaku's. I was a mixed up kid! Bruce Lee has now become a thing of the past, but good old Patrick's photo still hangs on the wall of my observatory as a reminder of his lasting influence.  Anyhow, it wasn't too long before my wife and I were on our way to Selsey. When Patrick learned of the distance we'd travelled, from Lancashire to east Sussex, it was he that suggested we stay. It was a very enjoyable couple of days, and within a few days of returning home I recieved a phone call, and the voice on the other end of the line said " Hello, this is Patrick. I'm phoning to say I enjoyed your visit, please do come again, and next time bring your son Daniel..."  Daniel is my younger son who at the time was 13 years old and had an interest in astronomy. I said I would visit again, but sadly never did arrange it. So even after our visit Patrick's focus was on encouraging  my young lad. And encouraging others is what he lived for to the end. I still hold a special place in my heart for him, and gratitude for all that he unknowingly did for me.

 

Great story, thanks for sharing Mike. 

[Ratlet]

I really only saw Sir Patrick on Gamesmaster in the 90's but someone on YouTube has uploaded heaps of Sky at Night and some of his interviews with amateur astronomers is amazing.  He seems to love praising talent and encouraging people in the hobby.

https://youtu.be/8tFQwCLv62E

Dropped a link to one video, but the guy has hundreds up

[allworlds]

For me the old travel cliche applies: It's not the destination, it's the journey. Sure I'll look at the Moon and planets, but hunting fuzzies is my real calling. In a small scope they're not much to look at; the activity is in the process of locating and seeing them.

(Edit: Well, most of them aren't much. The Pleiades and similar always look great.)

That said, photons that have travelled across the vastness of space, a handful of the gazillions that were once emitted, and landing upon my own eye. There's something special about that.

Edited January 1, 2023 by allworlds

[JeremyS]

2 hours ago, Ratlet said:

I really only saw Sir Patrick on Gamesmaster in the 90's but someone on YouTube has uploaded heaps of Sky at Night and some of his interviews with amateur astronomers is amazing.  He seems to love praising talent and encouraging people in the hobby.

https://youtu.be/8tFQwCLv62E

Dropped a link to one video, but the guy has hundreds up

That’s Martin Mobberley 

[StarryEyed]

I love the CONNECT that I get with visual astronomy. For example looking at Mars the photons that hit my eye are photons that have touched and bounced of its surface. Thats a real physical connection and I literally sence this I am aware of it. Same as listening to a live orchestra theres feeling there. When I listen to a recording I still have the joy of the music but I dont feel the connection with the orchestra. Same reason some people go to a football match rather tham watch it on TV. 

Astrophotography is rewarding but not it the same way. Visual astronomy makes you a participant in the universe rather than a camera man in it. If you choose the right moment for each you can actually get more enjoyment overall by making the best use of each. 

One thing is for sure a bit of visual astronomy always cheers me up no end even on the worst of days. 

[Franklin]

On 30/12/2022 at 20:44, mikeDnight said:

Yours truly sat in the great man's chair.

 

Did you get to try out his monocle?

[mikeDnight]

2 hours ago, Franklin said:

Did you get to try out his monocle?

Actually Yes. He had a few of them hanging from a hook close to his Grandfather clock. And i tried his Fez for size too. I didn't ask to smoke his pipe though. In fact I got the feeling his pipe was more for show, as his house didn't smell of pipe smoke, and he didnt attempt to light it while we were there. I was quite taken on by the watercolour paintings,  painted by his mother, that hung around the house showing little aliens on various planets. It was like a journey back in time visiting Patrick's home. He even gave us a copy of his mother's lovely illustrated book, and signed it for us, though he confessed his signature wasn't what it used to be as he suffered terribly with arthritis n his hands and fingers.

[Franklin]

Amazing, I met him along with Heather Cooper at an event at Herstmonceux in 1979, I was only a kid but he did sign my programme!

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, StarryEyed said:

I love the CONNECT that I get with visual astronomy. For example looking at Mars the photons that hit my eye are photons that have touched and bounced of its surface. Thats a real physical connection and I literally sence this I am aware of it. Same as listening to a live orchestra theres feeling there. When I listen to a recording I still have the joy of the music but I dont feel the connection with the orchestra. Same reason some people go to a football match rather tham watch it on TV. 

Astrophotography is rewarding but not it the same way. Visual astronomy makes you a participant in the universe rather than a camera man in it. If you choose the right moment for each you can actually get more enjoyment overall by making the best use of each. 

One thing is for sure a bit of visual astronomy always cheers me up no end even on the worst of days. 

Quite similar to the visceral experience of attending a Broadway/West End play/musical in person versus watching a video of it on TV.  There's simply no comparison at all.  Maybe someday with advances in virtual reality the gap will be closed; but for now, live and in-person can't be beat.

[PeterStudz]

Interesting subject. Now, I could turn the question on it’s head and say “why do AP?” When you’ve got all these amazing AP images on here, on the internet and in books. Why not just look at those and save yourself a shed load of time and money? I do sort of know the answer and many of the images are incredible. I’ve dabbled with smartphone images too, although I don’t consider this AP. It could also be that visual astronomy isn’t for you. People are different and that’s a good thing. 

This does remind me of something. My daughter recently asked a question: “what would a nebula look like if you got close to it in a spacecraft?” I don’t really know the answer but I bet something like the Orion Nebula would not look like any of the AP images. 

For me observing is or should be about having fun. It’s about the journey (someone mentioned that before) and the event. 

Apart from having a small “department store telescope” as a kid I’m a beginner having started two years ago when my daughter showed an interest. I thought it would be an excellent thing for us to do together and it would get us both outside. I’m an outdoor person and so is my daughter but too much of todays lifestyle is based indoors, often sat staring at computers/smartphones. An example of an event is camping out in the garden with my daughter, looking up at the stars, scanning the sky with binoculars, looking for shooting stars, listening to foxes, seeing hedgehogs just before sunrise, hearing the dawn chorus, drinking hot chocolate and toasting marshmallows… looking in the telescope is just the icing on the cake! As a Dad you’ll remember these kind of events for the rest of you life. And for us it’s also fun!

Or when we took a small telescope on holiday to a place that was a dark location. To make sure everything was still working I set the telescope up in the evening just outside our hotel on a path in front of the sea. Wasn’t sure what to look at but chose Saturn as an obvious “testing” target. Now, the view was actually quite good with the Cassini Division visible. But what surprised me was that within a few minutes I had people who were just passing asking questions, then looking at Saturn in the telescope. Soon after that I had a queue of people. At one point someone thought I was doing some sort of organised demo. But the nice thing that I noticed was that everyone who looked at Saturn came away with big smiles on their faces. 

And going to a dark site. Here, while on holiday, the Milky Way was a swathe of bright light. And I could actually make out the lagoon nebula naked eye and (what impressed me most) the swan nebula naked eye too. I never knew that was even possible! We also had a friend come along with his family. Like me he’s in his late 50’s but had never seen the Milky Way. Although like most people he’s seen lots of AP images he didn’t actually know what the Milky Way was until I told him. Having someone go “wow, look at that!” in a telescope or just when simply looking up at the night sky is very rewarding. 

[jjohnson3803]

21 minutes ago, PeterStudz said:

Now, I could turn the question on it’s head and say “why do AP?” When you’ve got all these amazing AP images on here, on the internet and in books. Why not just look at those and save yourself a shed load of time and money? I do sort of know the answer and many of the images are incredible. I’ve dabbled with smartphone images too, although I don’t consider this AP. 

That line of thought is one thing that's kept me from going down the AP rabbit hole.  However, there's a compromise available - buy some time on a remote telescope site.  There can be glitches, but it's no fuss, no muss for the most part and I got some reasonable images from remote sites.  I eventually let my subscription lapse though - I decided I didn't really want to spend time processing images when spectacular images are available all over the Web

I've taken some wide field smartphone pics with Nocturne and Starry Cam, but I'm staying visual at least for now.

Edited January 3, 2023 by jjohnson3803

[PeterStudz]

Light pollution has a lot to answer for. I’m in Bortle 7. From my garden I’ve probably seen all that I can see in my 200p Dob. But that doesn’t mean I won’t see it better. The dumbbell nebula is an example. When first observed I found it underwhelming. But one very transparent night last year it was lovely, helped a little by using a filter. Is that the best I’ll see it? Certainly not. There’s always better nights plus dark sites and it’ll take years before I can say “I’ve seen it at its best”, if that ever happens.

Mars is another. I first say that in 1970-something when I was a kid using the small refractor that my parents bought me. It was no more than a featureless small orange dot. I thought that was it and I’d never see it again. But this opposition has been great. I’ve seen ice caps, north polar hood and albedo features - I've been delighted. If I continue is that the best? Might have to wait a while but probably not! 

[Xsubmariner]

 Having taken up Astronomy late in life, I am finding the journey; educational, fascinating,  immensely enjoyable and rewarding.  While attending a couple of star parties early on, I concluded the true delights of visual observation were not for me due to an inability to remain at the eyepiece for the requisite duration, consequence of many years of physical contact sports. 

 While my focus is AP, I have greatly enjoyed reading this thread, it has been been educational and somewhat enlightening. Kudos to mikeDnight, Sir, your sketches are pieces of art in addition to scientific documents. It was also great to read so many different responder experiences, that clearly reflected many years of dedication to this wonderful hobby. Thank you all for sharing.

 

[spacedobsonian]

You know, people look at the Jupiter or the Andromeda galaxy and say "Is that it?" I think people don't think about what they are looking, so I would just say that just think about what you are seeing, Jupiter, a planet larger than any, floating 750 million km from earth, with its great red spot 4x the size of earth. It just gives a sense of grandeur while observing it and that's the main reason I enjoy this hobby! 

I would recommend trying it out the next time you observe anything!

Edited January 3, 2023 by spacedobsonian

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, spacedobsonian said:

You know, people look at the Jupiter or the Andromeda galaxy and say "Is that it?"

Kind of reminds me of how underwhelmed I was when I finally saw Mt. Rushmore for myself.  I kind of expected it to be bigger and grander, but the heads are only 60 feet tall seen from 1000 feet away.  In contrast, I was overwhelmed by the Iwo Jima monument when I finally saw it up close for myself.  The figures are about 30 feet tall seen from about 35 feet away.  I guess I need to get within 70 feet of Mt. Rushmore to get the best effect. 😄

[Ratlet]

7 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Kind of reminds me of how underwhelmed I was when I finally saw Mt. Rushmore for myself.  I kind of expected it to be bigger and grander, but the heads are only 60 feet tall seen from 1000 feet away.  In contrast, I was overwhelmed by the Iwo Jima monument when I finally saw it up close for myself.  The figures are about 30 feet tall seen from about 35 feet away.  I guess I need to get within 70 feet of Mt. Rushmore to get the best effect. 😄

I've worked offshore for ages and it's weird because the oilrigs/platforms are so big you don't realise how big they are.  You're in it so you can't take it all in, but you know somewhere in your head that it's big.

Once I was on a platform and had an intrinsically safe camera in the early am when the pioneering spirit went past carrying the Brent Bravo, which I had worked on.  For some reason that put a context in on how big these things are.  The platform is massive, but the boat that taking it to become razor blades is gigantic.