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Inspire me about visual astronomy


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5 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

Mall's & Kramers Messier Album had me enthralled

Me too Mike and just for the record, IMO your sketch of M1 "The Crab Nebula" is much more realistic than John Mallas's. Your field stars even match up perfectly with Kreimers photograph as well, amazing!

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The above has pretty well covered everything that inspires me (the hunt, the understanding of what you are looking at, the beauty of an open cluster, the peacefulness, the understanding of the scale of what you are looking at, the jaw dropping views of the moon and gas giants). The only thing I'd add is that I get a real buzz at what one can see with something as low tech as a couple of bits of glass and no electronics and, hallelujah, no software.

@mikeDnight's sketches inspire me. I'd love to have his talent, but I don't, but I still enjoy giving it a go occasionally. @Ratlet, your sketches are fabulous too, I would be very happy to produce something half as good!

Malcolm 

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14 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

What a brilliant post. 

When I started out in astronomy over 40 years ago, photography as it was then was nothing like today. Visual observers could make valuable observations that very often outstripped the majority of photographs in detail - I'm talking about observational sketches. Although today imaging has under most circumstances, made sketching all but obsolete as far as creating a scientific record; it has not replaced visual observing.

I'm what you might call "old school", or a bit of a dinosaur. I'm a purely visual observer, and an avid sketcher.  Sketching is a powerful visual observing aid. It forces the observer to slow down and search out the most subtle nuances in an object under scrutiny. I find that as wonderful as images are, they are a little like the art of taxidermy, in that they show an object frozen in time, and often cooked to reveal an aspect of a feature rather than the whole as it truly is. Visual observing when done correctly, shows the object to be alive, and its features presented differently, more subtle and almost three dimensional compared to those in an image.

You asked to be inspired. I hope you enjoy the following mix of my observations, from lunar & planetary; brighter deep sky & Comets, and Double star, to planetary mapping and globe making. Most of the following have been observed through a 4" refractor.

 

 

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Wow 🤩, your sketches and reports are mind blowing. What a talent you have, I have to say just as good as the images you see. What a book they would make say an observing journey through an eyepiece. 

I'm just getting back into the visual side (hiatus from imaging) abiet with a meade 80mm F10 frac and double stars really give me a buzz when I can find them. 

Your post has really inspired me and nothing like just setting up in a couple of minutes during the clear spells and taking in the winders, no goto or elastictrickery to worry about, just you an ep, star chart and scope. Like you say no real scrutiny for perfect clear cloudless skies for hours, all this can be done with intermittent cloud cover too. 

Thank you snd to the OP for starting a great thread. 

Lee 

Edited by AstroNebulee
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Phenomenal topic and posts. I have often described this hobby of ours as a couple of thousand hobbies under one title, keep searching imakebeer, the grin factor is there somewhere :D

Personally I jump between visual for solar system and doubles and then dabble in eeva. The sketches have been an amazing eye opener and what a brilliant idea by Ratlet to sketch some of your images, as someone with zero talent,  I will be giving that a try.

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11 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

 I'm sure you're not alone in doubting your artistic ability, but artistic skill isn't so important. The simple act of putting pencil to paper somehow engages a critical eye. The end result isn't that important, as simply scribbling down detail has helped you to understand whats actually visible in the eyepiece.  I use two sketch books. The rough sketch book is what i use at the telescope, and it contains scribbles and crossing outs as i correct mistakes, and as the subtle detail gradually reveals itself. Then soon after finishing observing, I'll make a cleaned up version of the eyepiece sketch in my other sketch book.

 Of course not all visual observers choose to draw. Some write notes, which serves the same purpose as sketching as it focuses the observers attention in a critical way. A friend of mine uses a dictaphone at the telescope, then makes written notes when back inside. The reason I like to sketch is that I'm inherently lazy, and find it much easier to look back at my sketches rather than reading pages of notes. I hope you give it a go sometime in the future. You may find its not as hard as you might first imagine. :happy11:

100% this approach. I use graph paper at the scope and index cards in the warm and dry the next day. Index cards (rather than a sketch pad) facilitate storing by RA so the collection can just grow and grow in an orderly way. I have to say at the end of the my first year being more serious and considered with this hobby the observations from this year where i have sketches (about 30%) are worth far more than the notes only ones (though of course i enjoy those too) and i will concentrate more and more on sketching/plotting/making diagrams both for the benefits at the EP to enforce really looking and the benefit at home as nice aides memoir.

Your sketches further up are great @mikeDnight. A great range.

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Wow I'm sure this thread will be a of great value! When I first became interested in astronomy I was really only interested in observing the moon and planets for several years, and it was only much latter that I became interested in deep sky objects and the challenge of observing/finding them. Now the funny thing is, it's transient stuff that gives me the most thrill, comets and meteors, with perhaps no equipment -  just your eyes and imagination!

Happy New Year.

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3 hours ago, JeremyS said:

Many very wise words above. Perhaps another thing to consider is rather that flitting between the usual suspects during and evening, work out which type of object gains your interest most and start an observing project around it. Perhaps it is DSOs, or the Moon, or planets, variable stars, double stars. Get to know them, to study and observe them. This could then lead to a systemic observing programme and perhaps submitting your observations to an organisation like the BAA where they can be analysed along with other observers’ observations. You might find you get drawn in more and more if you have a focus at the centre of your observing.

leslie Peltier, whom Mike mentioned, was a great variable stars observers. It’s my forte too. Peltier described the excitement of waiting for nightfall to see how “his” variables were doing.

As an example of another subject, have a look at the Mars drawings on the BAA Mars section blog: https://britastro.org/section_news_item/mars-opposition-blog-14-december-2022

 

 

Also 100% this. This year i have found having a programme (started out with one and now have four) is a fantastic aid to being methodical and far from being constraining is actually a brilliant way to extract more enjoyment from observing on the cloudy nights in between sessions as with a progamme of objects there lots to read about and follow up on or plan (including the human side of first observers of particular things). Having several alternative programmes on the go at once means there is always something to focus on throughout the lunar cycle.

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Another thing that I forgot to mention, which I think is probably the most inspirational for me, is the sheer wealth of knowledge, experience and advice offered for free from members here on SGL.

I've read posts where some SGL'rs have decided, however reluctantly, to leave the hobby due to frustrations with constant bad weather, equipment expense etc. Only to have their posts replied to with nothing but positivity and assurances that it is all worth it in the end! Great community!

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Thanks all for your replies so far, this is all helpful stuff 👍

Regarding variable and double stars: what kind of timescale are we talking to see some variation?

(I realise it will vary a lot from star to star, precise type etc but give me an idea)

Jupiter for example, you can see the rotation in hours or even minutes. For stars are we talking hours, days, weeks, months or what?

I'm aware these objects existed but never knowingly looked at them. Seems as good a starting point as any in terms of seeing something I've not seen before.

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18 minutes ago, imakebeer said:

Thanks all for your replies so far, this is all helpful stuff 👍

Regarding variable and double stars: what kind of timescale are we talking to see some variation?

(I realise it will vary a lot from star to star, precise type etc but give me an idea)

Jupiter for example, you can see the rotation in hours or even minutes. For stars are we talking hours, days, weeks, months or what?

I'm aware these objects existed but never knowingly looked at them. Seems as good a starting point as any in terms of seeing something I've not seen before.

Some stars vary over a night, eg some eclipsing binaries, others over a year, eg long period variables or Mira stars. 
 

For some examples go to the BAA VSS site: https://britastro.org/vss/

and click Beginners. 

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1 hour ago, imakebeer said:

I'm aware these objects existed but never knowingly looked at them. Seems as good a starting point as any in terms of seeing something I've not seen before.

 An easy starting point for observing double stars is to simply check out the major stars in a constellation. No science at this point, just breathtaking tourism. It's amazing how many main constellation stars have a hidden companion or two, and some of them can be breathtaking. It's also good to examine the surrounding field for hidden gems. Low power wide field views can be mesmerizing, and when a sneaky little suspect is found, boot up the magnification for a better view. 

 It's like fishing; it doesn't matter if you catch a fish but its great when you do. Then sometimes you catch a big one.

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I find visual observing is in having some knowledge about what I am actually looking at. It doesn't depend on the objects looking particularly spectacular - though in my view there are countless thousands that are really beautiful to look at and some spectacular in my 8inch reflector.

All visual astronomers are also time travellers and we have a direct connection with objects as they looked often millions of years ago. That 'fuzzy smudge' in the eyepiece becomes immeasurably more interesting when you know how far away it is, how big, how old and how many stars it contains, and that it was discovered by William Herschel in a garden of a terraced house in Bath in the latter years of the 18th century.

 

Edited by paulastro
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I was 100% visual up until a few years ago when I started to dip my toe into AP. When imaging I like to get my binos out or a small scope. Double stars, coloured stars and clusters are my favourite objects and I've started making notes of my observations but after seeing those wonderful sketches I may try doing that instead.

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I'm kind of forced into AP due to bortle zone, visually I struggle to see even star clusters.

But, the visual tends to stick with you more, AP is a fairly hands off experience once it's running and after post processing. Sitting in the quiet outdoors scanning the skies trying to find targets is part of the fun, using goto for visual doesn't quite do it for me. I don't know if it's just me but you perceive to see more clarity when visually looking at planets and the sun with a solar HA scope, and it's an immediate payback as you're experiencing it there and then. I think that's why its so rewarding.

Give me warmer temperatures and darker skies and I'd do it a lot more.

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As I've said in previous, related threads, I love panning about rich star fields at lower powers discovering star clusters that are not at all obvious at higher powers.  It's sort of like going out for a drive on an empty road and just enjoying the scenery instead of heading for a destination.  It's just relaxing to have no particular observing plan which allows me to unwind after a stressful day.

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6 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

I do hope you love your FC100. It's a big investment!

I do, it’s a beautiful bit of engineering. Although I’m only 29, I can tell it’s a scope I will keep for my whole life. Especially as I managed to get the DL version too!

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Just going to put this out there… If you ever have the good fortune to observe M51, M13 or M92, or M42 in a large aperture scope (14+ inches) under dark skies and good atmospheric conditions, it will change the way in which you view life. With even better fortune, the LMC (including Tarantula Nebula), Carina Nebula, 47 Tuc and Omega Centuari in the Southern Hemisphere is pure, pure glory. 🙂 

I know you specified your kit and there are many posts on this thread providing true inspiration using smaller kits, but to my eyes, visual observation really becomes magical in large aperture and good skies, and there is just no way a photo can remake that with those objects listed. 😃

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On 27/12/2022 at 20:50, imakebeer said:

Question for all you visual-only astronomers:

What are y'all looking at through the eyepiece? Please inspire me!

 

OK let me try with my reply, I have asked so many questions in the past and like to think I have gained a little from nearly every thread i have opened or contributed too in some small way.

First my background started as purely visual but I have tinkered around with photography pretty much from the beginning. I now have a very small portable AZ GTI astrophotography rig as well as an eVscope which allow me to carry out some type of astronomy even during moonlit nights or those when I am not in the mood for driving out. that said, my main interest remains visual.

There is something very satisfying about having the photons of some far off galaxy hit your retina and realise that when they lefts it's host, dinosaurs were walking the earth or some similar analogy.

What you view and enjoy viewing depends upon the individual. It could be broken down in simple terms as stars (doubles, variables etc), star open clusters, globulars, nebula and galaxy. There are hybrids of these, some variations along with a few oddities but I think this covers the bases.

Personally I like them all but I do have a penchant for nebula or galaxy with good structure.  I will chat more about nebula first and then a little on galaxy.

I think I have seen a pretty good number of the available nebula from the Northern hemisphere and have written up about these on here before. My most satisfying nebula in terms of structure, definition, brightness and overall beauty (leaving out Orion) still remains as NGC 6888 Crescent nebula. Responds superbly to an OIII filter with a decent aperture but a UHC is a very good back up option and that filter should always be your first purchase for viewing nebula. Line filters (OIII & HB) can be bought later if you get into nebula in a bigger way.  I left out Orion because it's just to easy to be in a competition and it is simply beyond compare when viewed in the right conditions, mesmerising. ( I was in 1,000 yard stare mode for a minute whilst writing that last sentence, really took me back)

Galaxies, well I know I wrote with good structure but I do love them all. My best (distanced) visual fuzzy was 420M LY away seen March this year under a B2 sky in Galloway, barely visible but it was there. I spent a few minutes at the eyepiece on that as i remember but the satisfaction was from, "I got it", not from what I really saw.  My favourite galaxy in terms of "what I saw" came from M33. This was about 6 years since, again in a B2 (new moon) sky when the view was literally as striking as some of the images I have seen on here. M51 runs it a close second and this was again from March this year. However other satisfying objects are numerous (M81, 82, Leo triplet, M101) to name a few.

On galaxy viewing it helps to view a suitable object at low, med and high power. Doing so allows you to tease out different amount of detail as they respond to the differing eye pupil sizes giving you an overall better structure resolve. 

Finally, all my "best views" have come under very dark skies. A readily available (to most of us) B4 (sqm20.5) sky will give you very satisfying views of nearly all deep sky objects but the very best OMG type moments have come for me under B2 (SQM21.5+) skies, there really is no substitution for the very dark.

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@mikeDnight your sketches are always truly amazing and inspiring.

The level of detail you manage to observe and sketch is clearly an art learned from many hours at the eyepiece and I have truly enjoyed seeing them not just on this thread but on many others too. I aspire to observe merely some of the finer details that you see.

Your posts have been instrumental in my decision to buy an FC100 too, you're not on your AstroNash.😉

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16 hours ago, AstroNash said:

I do, it’s a beautiful bit of engineering. Although I’m only 29, I can tell it’s a scope I will keep for my whole life. Especially as I managed to get the DL version too!

No way! You have to be at least 50 years old to own one of those beauties, send it back and wait like everyone else 🤣.

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14 hours ago, Spile said:

The parallel for me is visiting a place. Yes I can take photographs as a record but most will be not looked at whereas the memory of what hit my retina will stay with me forever.

My thoughts exactly! 

For those of you that have never seen a solar eclipse, no media, whether it be analogue or digital, can reproduce the exquisite details of the sun's corona. I was to be able to view the 1999 solar eclipse from the northeast coast town/village of Krapets, Bulgaria 🇧🇬

I have 35mm photos/slides of it, but what I did see visually will remain with me forever too.

 

Edited by Philip R
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10 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

My most satisfying nebula in terms of structure, definition, brightness and overall beauty (leaving out Orion) still remains as NGC 6888 Crescent nebula.

Interesting to hear that Steve, I have always struggled with this one in my largest scope (8” SCT), never clearly seen the crescent shape, although I’ve never tried from a dark sky. Do you think my 8” in a dark sky would be able to show it clearly? 

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