Inspire me about visual astronomy

[Elp]

I once saw a large complete halo surrounding a full moon on a cold night many years ago, it was so fascinating I actually did a rough sketch of it. It's what I now think is a moon dog but it didn't have the prism light flares which those sometimes produce (or due to camera) especially via the sun, it was a complete unbroken ring around 8 moon diameters across. I think it happens if the air is cold enough and ice crystals form high up without falling and the light reflected from the moon gets reflected/refracted through them. I haven't seen one since, but it's stuck with me.

I think as humans we have a visceral physical connection to things, our own feelings and emotions play a large part like when you smell something out the blue and it reminds you of a location past visited and AP or any computer assisted usually takes all that away so feels a little "soulless", its great imaging things, but your visual experiences are personal to each and every individual.

[Franklin]

29 minutes ago, Philip R said:

I was fortunate to be able to see the 1999 solar eclipse.

I was on the south coast in Devon then and it completely clouded over, but the darkness and the fall in temperature during totality was very eerie.

[Elp]

Don't forget the birds stop flying and chirruping.

One actually kept going on at me when I was outside packing away at 5am during an AP session.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Elp

[imakebeer]

11 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

Responds superbly to an OIII filter with a decent aperture but a UHC is a very good back up option and that filter should always be your first purchase for viewing nebula. Line filters (OIII & HB) can be bought later if you get into nebula in a bigger way. 

Just in the subject of filters, are these very much a must have? Are they really gonna take things to the next level?

At the moment I just have eyepieces:

The 28mm 2" that came with the 150PDS

Plus the 1.25" SW ones that came with the 'frac - 25mm & 10mm, plus 2x Barlow

11 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

My favourite galaxy in terms of "what I saw" came from M33.

Having tried imaging it (with limited success so far), frankly I'm amazed you could even remotely see this visually at all!

That said, as I mentioned before I've only done precursory visual with the 150PDS so far so really must try - M31 was just a faint easily missed smudge from my B5 location through the 900mm/70mm frac so will be interesting to compare with the 150PDS.

[JeremyS]

41 minutes ago, imakebeer said:

Just in the subject of filters, are these very much a must have? Are they really gonna take things to the next level?

 

No. Nice to try on a few specific objects, but not generally necessary.

[mikeDnight]

50 minutes ago, imakebeer said:

Just in the subject of filters, are these very much a must have? Are they really gonna take things to the next level?

At the moment I just have eyepieces:

The 28mm 2" that came with the 150PDS

Plus the 1.25" SW ones that came with the 'frac - 25mm & 10mm, plus 2x Barlow

Having tried imaging it (with limited success so far), frankly I'm amazed you could even remotely see this visually at all!

That said, as I mentioned before I've only done precursory visual with the 150PDS so far so really must try - M31 was just a faint easily missed smudge from my B5 location through the 900mm/70mm frac so will be interesting to compare with the 150PDS.

I found that the Olll works better on larger aperture scopes. I know that while sketching the Veil nebula using my 5" refractor, I needed to sketch the nebula with the filter in place, then remove it so I could sketch the starfield, superimposing the stars. Only the brightest stars are visible through an Olll unless you're using a large aperture.

 The UHC is a much more pleasing filter for use in smaller apertures. However, i personally find that good dark adaption and prolonged study of an object should not be overlooked. I rarely use filters for most nebulae. The longer you observe something, the more you'll see. For example, you might look at the Pleiades and almost immediately see a couple of stars with a light fuzz around them. After half an hour looking at the Pleiades the entire cluster is enmeshed in nebulosity. The trick is to shield your peripheral vision from surrounding stray light, either by using a blackout blanket or hood, or driving to a dark site. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by mikeDnight

[Ratlet]

Filters are not required at all.  They can be useful but there is plenty to see without them.

The 28mm that came with the scope is pretty decent for widefield and if you are just getting going it will be ideal for a lot of stuff.

Download stellarium and you can configure it to show an eyepiece view for your scope and eyepiece.  You can go for a while with the eyepieces you've got.

 

[Ian McCallum]

1 minute ago, Ratlet said:

The 28mm that came with the scope is pretty decent for widefield and if you are just getting going it will be ideal for a lot of stuff.

That's probably my most used eyepiece.👍

[jock1958]

2 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

I found that the Olll works better on larger aperture scopes. I know that while sketching the Veil nebula using my 5" refractor, I needed to sketch the nebula with the filter in place, then remove it so I could sketch the starfield, superimposing the stars. Only the brightest stars are visible through an Olll unless you're using a large aperture.

 The UHC is a much more pleasing filter for use in smaller apertures. However, i personally find that good dark adaption and prolonged study of an object should not be overlooked. I rarely use filters for most nebulae. The longer you observe something, the more you'll see. For example, you might look at the Pleiades and almost immediately see a couple of stars with a light fuzz around them. After half an hour looking at the Pleiades the entire cluster is enmeshed in nebulosity. The trick is to shield your peripheral vision from surrounding stray light, either by using a blackout blanket or hood, or driving to a dark site. 

From my suburban back garden I have to work very hard to see the Veil with my 4” frac + OIII filter but without it there’s absolutely no chance. 

My Tak + UHC filter will give much more pleasing results on targets such as M27 (dumbbell), M42 in Orion, M17 (Swan), M8 (lagoon) & M57 plus other planetary nebulae. 
As you say Mike, if you want  to see these objects more easily then it’s a trip out to a dark site, dark adaptation and black out hood! 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by jock1958

[glafnazur]

2 hours ago, imakebeer said:

Having tried imaging it (with limited success so far), frankly I'm amazed you could even remotely see this visually at all!

 

I can remember an autumn night quite a few years ago when I was out with my binoculars in my back garden (B5) and the sky was perfect, probably the best I've experienced. It was the first time I saw M33, before that I'd failed miserably to view it using an 8" reflector.

[PeterStudz]

I should add to this if/when I have time. But one thing I can quickly add…

I’ve seen M33 at a Bortle 2 site while on holiday using a a basic 4.5 inch reflector that cost about £120. I can’t even see this at home in my Bortle 7 location in my 8 inch Dob.

Using the same 4.5 inch reflector I saw M8 (lagoon) in a Bortle 1-2 site. It was truly jaw dropping! A UHC filter brought out a few more details but without it I could even make out colours. It’s was absolutely stunning and all the images that I’ve seen do not do it justice even when at the eyepiece on a small telescope at a dark site. I can only image what it would look like with more aperture. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by PeterStudz

[bomberbaz]

3 hours ago, JeremyS said:

No. Nice to try on a few specific objects, but not generally necessary.

The key point here is generally, most (but not all by a long way) nebula show something without a filter, however unless you intent on spending a very long time on the same object as suggested by @mikeDnight , a filter is something of a must have as far as I am concerned, some will agree, some (as can be seen by comments) do not.

I do use a blackout hood, best thing I bought.

3 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

After half an hour looking at the Pleiades the entire cluster is enmeshed in nebulosity. The trick is to shield your peripheral vision from surrounding stray light, either by using a blackout blanket or hood, or driving to a dark site. 

3 hours ago, Ratlet said:

Filters are not required at all.  They can be useful but there is plenty to see without them.

The 28mm that came with the scope is pretty decent for widefield and if you are just getting going it will be ideal for a lot of stuff.

Download stellarium and you can configure it to show an eyepiece view for your scope and eyepiece.  You can go for a while with the eyepieces you've got.

 

No no sorry @Ratletbut that is not correct at all. You're making filters sound gimmicky, maybe not your intention but how it appears.

Most planetary nebula will respond very well to no filter, I will agree with you there, but very many more emission nebula are virtually impossible to see without a filter, the crescent nebula being one unless your in B2 skies or better. Even then a filter greatly enhances the detail that can be seen.  

There are many others too (heart, soul, california, horsehead, cocoon etc). 

As already mentioned, even bright nebula offer up something extra when used with a filter and in my opinion you overlook the usage of one to your own detriment.

There is a great cloudynights filter review to which I frequently refer, details of their findings on filter use and benefit can be found there Filter Performance Comparisons - Astronomical Filters - Articles - Articles - Cloudy Nights  I think it gives a pretty decent overview of with and without.

[bomberbaz]

1 hour ago, PeterStudz said:

I should add to this if/when I have time. But one thing I can quickly add…

I’ve seen M33 at a Bortle 2 site while on holiday using a a basic 4.5 inch reflector that cost about £120. I can’t even see this at home in my Bortle 7 location in my 8 inch Dob.

Using the same 4.5 inch reflector I saw M8 (lagoon) in a Bortle 1-2 site. It was truly jaw dropping! A UHC filter brought out a few more details but without it I could even make out colours. It’s was absolutely stunning and all the images that I’ve seen do not do it justice even when at the eyepiece on a small telescope at a dark site. I can only image what it would look like with more aperture. 

Nothing beats dark skies

[Ratlet]

Yeah, wasn't my intent to make them sound gimmicky, rather to state that they aren't mandatory when you are just starting out.

[Guest]

I find inspiration when I think about what I am seeing.  I am watching light thats has been traveling through space for thousands if not millions of years just so I could at it at that moment.  I get even more thrilled when i switch from my 10 inch to the 16 inch and then the details start showing up.  But if you want to feel real inspiration.... Be standing there next to someone when they look through the eyepiece for the first time and you actually hear Oh wow.  Now if that doesnt inspire I dont know what will 

[glafnazur]

42 minutes ago, Mike Q said:

But if you want to feel real inspiration.... Be standing there next to someone when they look through the eyepiece for the first time and you actually hear Oh wow.  Now if that doesnt inspire I dont know what will 

That's so true. I have always loved doing outreach stuff with my local astro society. Just hearing and seeing peoples reactions when they have their first view makes it all worthwhile. 

 

 

[cajen2]

I showed my 5-year-old grandson Jupiter for the first time with my 8" dob. Predictable response: "Wow, that's so cool!" I think showing him a photo wouldn't have had the same reaction.

Edited December 29, 2022 by cajen2

[tomato]

With imaging being a (sometimes) fully automated process, I purchased a scope to enjoy visual astronomy during all the downtime. However, after deciding that my ageing  Mk 1 eyeballs would need all the help they can get, I went for a 16” Dob which takes way more time to wheel out and set up than my dome based imaging rig, oh well…

But it is does provide some truly stunning views when it’s out there, so combining both branches of the hobby is thoroughly recommended.

[F15Rules]

Mike's incredible gallery of his sketches, made mostly with a 4" refractor, remember, make me feel both inspired and inadequate..

Not in a bad way inadequate, but just knowing that my eyes are just not able to see so much of what he sees, nor will they ever be..😭😭

Tell you what Mike.. I'll do you a straight swap..your 100mm Tak for my 128mm FS128..on condition that we can swap our eyeballs at the same time!!😇😂😂.

All joking apart, thanks to Mike (and everyone else who posted) for sharing his/their incredibly gifted work, and thanks to @imakebeer for starting what has become one of the most thought provoking and "hobby affirming" threads I've read for a very long time 👍.

Dave

Edited December 30, 2022 by F15Rules
Typo

[Franklin]

17 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

I'll do you a straight swap..your 100mm Tak for my 128mm FS128..on condition that we can swap our eyeballs at the same time!!😇

My eyes and the SD103 for the FS128 Dave? 🤣

[imakebeer]

A little update...

I managed to get out for a couple of hours last night. My primary goal was actually to try some new stuff for imaging Jupiter and Mars, but while I was out I made a point of putting away the laptop and cameras and doing a bit of visual...

I started on the moon - not the wisest idea in hindsight but it's a lot sharper through the 150PDS then the frac...

Then I moved on to M31 - not helping myself having just looked at the moon, but it was right there. Still a faint smudge but clear enough along with 32 & Nu Andromeda. Possibly not ideal conditions with the moon and Jupiter going down in the west, but...

My eyes were just starting to adjust again when my neighbour turned on his landing light which shines down into my garden like a flipping searchlight! 😖😂

I decided to call it a night at that point but it's a start 👍🔭😊

[F15Rules]

17 minutes ago, imakebeer said:

A little update...

I managed to get out for a couple of hours last night. My primary goal was actually to try some new stuff for imaging Jupiter and Mars, but while I was out I made a point of putting away the laptop and cameras and doing a bit of visual...

I started on the moon - not the wisest idea in hindsight but it's a lot sharper through the 150PDS then the frac...

Then I moved on to M31 - not helping myself having just looked at the moon, but it was right there. Still a faint smudge but clear enough along with 32 & Nu Andromeda. Possibly not ideal conditions with the moon and Jupiter going down in the west, but...

My eyes were just starting to adjust again when my neighbour turned on his landing light which shines down into my garden like a flipping searchlight! 😖😂

I decided to call it a night at that point but it's a start 👍🔭😊

Good for you!👍

The moon is waxing now, so will dominate the night sky for the next couple of weeks. It's a good target now, but will become overpoweringly bright as it nears full, especially in a 6" scope like yours.

Your scope is a very capable one, so if you have some high power eyepieces to give you say 130x or higher, why not try splitting some doubles? I've found it can become a bit addictive!😊

Dave

Edited December 30, 2022 by F15Rules

[imakebeer]

4 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

so if you have some high power eyepieces to give you say 130x or higher, why not try splitting some doubles?

Nice tip, thanks, I'll try it 👍

The PDS only comes with the 28mm 2", but there's also a 1.25" adapter...

And I have the 25 & 10mm eyepieces that came with the frac, plus 2x, 3x & 5x Barlows...

So the 10mm + 2x Barlow will get me to 150x which ought to do it as long as the optics are sharp enough - and at least the HEQ5 should be rather more steady than the wobbly EQ1 to do that magnification justice!

[F15Rules]

Your 28mm will really come into its own on clusters like the Pleiades, the Double Cluster in Perseus and the Orion nebula when the moon is out of the way and skies are dark.

If your scope is well collimated, you should comfortably split the following:

Castor in Gemini, Rigel in Orion, Alnitak (lowest star in Orion's Belt), Polaris (the Pole star of course).

A really good guide book for observing double stars in urban skies is this one:

It's on page 507, dated 6th December if this link doesn't take you straight there..

Dave

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by F15Rules

[Ratlet]

If you are observing the moon the cap for the 150pds should have a small bit you can pop off on the lid.  You can put the cap on, remove the small bit (put it on the other nubbin to hold it), line it up so it's not over a spider vane and observe the moon.  It reduced the aperture, but also helps reduce the brightness and avoid the feeling that you're about to have your head blown off via your eyeballs.

Cracking report as well.  M31 was what I started on and your 28mm will frame it well.  Truck on over the M42 when you have a chance next.  The nebulosity is bright enough that it will put up a good fight against the moon light.  M45 is pretty moon proof as are a lot of clusters.  Auriga is absolutely rife with them!  Almaak is a very nice double in Andromeda and is pretty easy to find.

I (along with everyone else on the forum) look forward to reading your continuing adventures!  The next best thing to observing is reading other peoples reports.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Ratlet