Buying a roll-off-roof observatory in the UK

[ste7e]

Hi all

I'm joining the ranks of the can't-live-with-the-setting-up-and-tearing-down-of-equipment-each-imaging-night crowd.

I've decided on a small (8'x6') roll-off-roof but don't have the necessary skills to build a high-quality building myself.  I'm happy to do the electrics, electronics and software to automate it but the build is well out of my wheelhouse.

So, I need to buy something...  I've looked to see what's available in the UK.  All I've found so far is HomeObservatoryUK.  I've asked them for a quote but they've not got back to me and they don't answer on either of the phone numbers on their site.  That's off-putting enough for me to be reluctant to work with them.

Can anyone out there in SGL land suggest any other options for me?

TIA

[scotty38]

You'd be wise to search a few threads on here is all I'd say.....

Edit - Sorry you did ask for other options 🙂

Edited May 26, 2022 by scotty38

[M40]

echo scotty38, I have no experience of the team you mention but some on here do, well worth a quick search on here.

Also have a google for garden observatories it may bring a few to the surface.

As an aside, I have recently stuck a pier into the ground, it saves a great deal of time; so unless you will be using a tripod, you will need a pier in your chosen position anyway, maybe use that as a first step.

All the best.

Edited May 26, 2022 by M40

[david_taurus83]

I've seen something recently on one of the Facebook astro buy and selling pages where someone built a ROR and there was a price to it.

As above, HOUK has been under a bit of pressure and there was a thread about it. Be worth searching for it..

[david_taurus83]

I found Sheds Sheds Sheds lol

http://www.shedshedsheds.co.uk/products/garden-buildings/garden-observatory/

Anyone used these?

[ste7e]

Thanks for the help.

I have done plenty of searching, M40, but hoping to get some recommendations from people who have used the companies.  I need to do some prep work in the garden (move an existing shed) before I can build a pier and want to make sure I've got a supplier lined up before I even start that   I'm thinking of a Todmorden pier

Other than HomeObservatoryUK (who I think I'll avoid as I've not heard back from and having read about the problems they've had) I've only found OutsideOlogy whose prices seem a little high and ShedsShedsSheds (thanks, David).

Anyone got any experiences, good or bad, of dealing with these or any other suppliers?

Steve

[carastro]

I found this, but no idea if they are any good:

https://www.taylorsgardenbuildings.co.uk/roll-on-roll-off-roof-observatory-shed-1-82x1-82m.html

 

[ste7e]

1 minute ago, carastro said:

I found this, but no idea if they are any good:

https://www.taylorsgardenbuildings.co.uk/roll-on-roll-off-roof-observatory-shed-1-82x1-82m.html

 

Thanks, Carole.  I've sent them a message asking for a quote

[malc-c]

Buying a commercial product is a lot more expensive than either getting a stock shed and modifying it, or buying raw materials and building it from scratch.  It's not difficult, and there are loads of build threads on the forum to give you ideas.  You don't have to go to the extent I went to, and if you can drill a hole and screw in a screw then you're half way there.

If you still want to go down the commercial route a quick google came up with this company Outsideology  Never used them, so can't say how good they are, but worth a call.

Given what has been posted regarding HomeObservatories UK I would advise you stay well clear of that company.

Good luck and don't forget to document the build / installation....

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by malc-c
typo

[tomato]

Ian King Imaging used to offer ROR observatories but he is now with FLO and they don’t appear to offer them.  It might be worth sending Ian an email to see if he has any contacts.

[gorann]

I have built myself three obsies here (I live on the contryside so garden space is no issue). Two of them are 250 x 250 cm and very convinient. Then I for some reason tried a smaller design (180 x 180 cm) on the third one and I regret it. Very complicated to move around in there, and a higher risk of disaster. So if you can find something bigger than 180 x 180 cm (6 x 6 feet) I would highly recommend it. Also, you may soon realise that your equipment will keep in a much better condition if you insulate the obsy and use a small radiator to keep it a few degrees above ambient temperature. That means less humidity, so no mold on the lenses, no corrosion of the mekanics, and humidity is not good for the electronics. But with a small obsy, adding insulation would make it even smaller.

[ste7e]

10 hours ago, malc-c said:

Buying a commercial product is a lot more expensive than either getting a stock shed and modifying it, or buying raw materials and building it from scratch.  It's not difficult, and there are loads of build threads on the forum to give you ideas.  You don't have to go to the extent I went to, and if you can drill a hole and screw in a screw then you're half way there.

If you still want to go down the commercial route a quick google came up with this company Outsideology  Never used them, so can't say how good they are, but worth a call.

Given what has been posted regarding HomeObservatories UK I would advise you stay well clear of that company.

Good luck and don't forget to document the build / installation....

 

Thanks, Malcolm.  Yes, I've looked at OutsideOlogy.  Their prices are quite a bit higher than others - they reckon on about £140/sq ft, which would put the building alone at £6720.  

Hmmmm.... you're tempting me down the build-your-own path...  I was hoping to get lots of people saying 'I bought from x and they were great' but it does seem that the majority of roll-offs owned by SGLers have been self builds. 

I'm happy enough with the drilling and joining but the problem is I need all my fingers to operate my keyboard and once I get let loose with a jigsaw things tend to go badly wrong.  Maybe I will take another look at the self-build options, though.

[ste7e]

46 minutes ago, gorann said:

I have built myself three obsies here (I live on the contryside so garden space is no issue). Two of them are 250 x 250 cm and very convinient. Then I for some reason tried a smaller design (180 x 180 cm) on the third one and I regret it. Very complicated to move around in there, and a higher risk of disaster. So if you can find something bigger than 180 x 180 cm (6 x 6 feet) I would highly recommend it. Also, you may soon realise that your equipment will keep in a much better condition if you insulate the obsy and use a small radiator to keep it a few degrees above ambient temperature. That means less humidity, so no mold on the lenses, no corrosion of the mekanics, and humidity is not good for the electronics. But with a small obsy, adding insulation would make it even smaller.

I envy you the space, Göran.  Sadly 6' on the short side is an absolute maximum.  And yes, I'd want to insulate.  So it's going to be cosy in there.  But my first option was a 2m dome so I'll still have more space than in there!

[gorann]

7 minutes ago, ste7e said:

I envy you the space, Göran.  Sadly 6' on the short side is an absolute maximum.  And yes, I'd want to insulate.  So it's going to be cosy in there.  But my first option was a 2m dome so I'll still have more space than in there!

6 x 8 is better than 6 x 6. You should really consider building it yourself.  I came up with an alternative roof solution for my obsies, which makes the build a bit easier.

 

 

And it was later copied by my friend @wimvb

 

[malc-c]

With increasing costs of timber it's not a fair comparison for me to tell you that my 2.2m x 4.8m observatory cost me less than £2500 including the bricks for the dwarf wall.  Chances are it would be at least double in todays terms. 

I don't think you will get a lot of people recommending commercial observatories for the reasons you mentioned.  The quotes are high and often doesn't include any ground works such as a concrete base or footings, which could be another grand on top.  I was lucky, my neighbour had access to a mini excavator, which made digging the footings a lot easier and quicker, but other than that I hired a mixer, and purchased a chop saw, and other than an electric drill and electric screwdriver that was all the tools I needed.  If you are sensible then there is no reason to fear the saw and your fingers will be intact.    One alternative is to obtain the details of a local builder from any neighbour who's had extensions etc added to their house.  If they can vouch for the work then you know the builder has decent reputation.  

Given the current circumstances with the cost of materials the project, either self assembly or ready made means it will be expensive, and twice the cost of undertaking such a project a couple of years earlier.  One other possibility is to look for a second hand dome.  If you were looking at an imaging rig then having a lot of space around the scope is not a requirement as you could operate the rig remotely.  If you are visual then yes having a decent amount of space such as 8' x 8' would be needed.

[Swoop1]

Don't forget/ exclude the flatpack Keter plastic sheds. Not as expensive as a wooden shed and, at least one person on here has used one in the unlock the roof and lift it off mode.

[Carbon Brush]

I note the Taylors offering doesn't include cators & rails on the roll off!
It certainly makes me wonder what else might be missing.

If you start with a commercial build, ask them about timber thicknesses.
A lot of shed builders offer flimsy through to robust sheds.
I can't stress enough just how much more timber an observatory needs compared to an ordinary shed.
A shed is rigid because it is in effect a cube. Remove the roof and you have a weak wobbly open top box.
Try it for yourself with a cardboard box.

Also you need a lot more strength in the roof than normal. You can't have a roof sag and catch on the running gear.

For my 'shed' in 2007 I ended up going to a local shed builder, armed with a sketch.
I still had to beef up the uprights, modify the door, add extra roof timbers, sort my own rails and running gear.

For the roof. Forget roofing felt. I fitted pond liner in 2007 and have not had to do a repair.

If starting again, I would probably do it this way....
Go to a shed builder - by personal visit.
Look at his offerings. Prod poke and shake. Choose something from a premium strong range.
Discuss anything non standard and have it included in your build.
A door doesn't need to be full height and having wood above helps with strength.
Extra timber around the top to support your rails.
Extra uprights.
A hole in the floor for a pier.
Go for a pitched roof that is strong enough to self support - stress this requirement.
Then get it delivered as a flat pack/kit.

Once it is at home, be very very generous with the wood preservative. You want it to last a long time.
If you do this before build, you can get into all the nooks and crannies.
Then start to look at the things you forgot to specify, and include them at build time.

Consider bolting the shed sides together. Or use woodscrews and steel corner brackets.
If it ever has to be taken apart - you don't want to be dealing with nails.

I adapted a garage up/over door opener to slide the roof on/off. Money well spent.

HTH, David.

[wimvb]

I started with a roll away tool shed (see the link in Görans reply), and this worked well. A small 3x3 or 3x4 ft kit works well and involves a minimum of diy skills. It's also less expensive than a full blown ror observatory. A roll away shed has many of the advantages of a ror, but at a lower cost. If you use it with a tripod rather than a pier, you will need to check polar alignment, and may need to recalibrate the guiding software more often, but this isn't much of an issue. The reason I went for a ror was that I wanted something more permanent and the ability to house two scopes on their pier.

[mikeDnight]

About 11 years ago, my friend Philip built his observatory by adapting a metal garden shed. It was probably about 5 ft by 6 ft, with walls around 5.5ft high. He built a simple wooden H frame to hold the wooden runners. It worked well, although I felt it was a little on the snug side. But it was a cheap option.

Phil's observatory, with Phil and his 5" apo refractor.

 

I built mine by screwing a 3" by 2" frame to 3/4" ply, clad externally with white plastic tongue & groove to protect the wood from moisture, and internally, with black foam excercise matting to minimise stray light and which never needs painting. It stands 6 ft 6" high, is built on 5" joists with a 3/4" ply floor, and is fit long and 7 ft wide. The roof is covered with rubber roofing sheet which is glued to 1/2" ply, and rolls on angle iron runners using 5" wheels placed 1/3 of the way in from the outer edge of the roof. Placing the wheels so far in from the edge of the roof allows an H frame to be built closer to the main building. 11 years on and its still working flawlessly. The roof moves with the touch of my fingers! It currently houses a 6" F10 refractor.

[Nigella Bryant]

I built a RoR out of a 10ft by 6ft existing shed. The telescope area is 6ftx6ft and the warm room 4ftx6ft. Cost was around £800. I just got some angle iron for the runner's, reinforced each corner, joint and around the top with 2inch x 3inch timber and used 4inch rubber caster's for runners. I'm up and running in 10mins. It's my solar shed. It really is easy, measure, cut, screw and make roof watertight, simples, lol. 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Nigella Bryant
Pic added

[DaveS]

I pretty much define "cack-handed" but managed to build my own obsy. A big mitre saw and somewhere to keep / use it will go a long way to baking the build easier. I went for 2.2 metre square, but wish I had gone for 2.5 as it's a bit cramped. Fortunately I'm an imager so don't have to be in there with the 'scope all the time.

 

Link to my obsy build thread complete with mistakes, wrong turning and back tracking.

[ste7e]

23 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

I note the Taylors offering doesn't include cators & rails on the roll off!
It certainly makes me wonder what else might be missing.

If you start with a commercial build, ask them about timber thicknesses.
A lot of shed builders offer flimsy through to robust sheds.
I can't stress enough just how much more timber an observatory needs compared to an ordinary shed.
A shed is rigid because it is in effect a cube. Remove the roof and you have a weak wobbly open top box.
Try it for yourself with a cardboard box.

Also you need a lot more strength in the roof than normal. You can't have a roof sag and catch on the running gear.

For my 'shed' in 2007 I ended up going to a local shed builder, armed with a sketch.
I still had to beef up the uprights, modify the door, add extra roof timbers, sort my own rails and running gear.

For the roof. Forget roofing felt. I fitted pond liner in 2007 and have not had to do a repair.

If starting again, I would probably do it this way....
Go to a shed builder - by personal visit.
Look at his offerings. Prod poke and shake. Choose something from a premium strong range.
Discuss anything non standard and have it included in your build.
A door doesn't need to be full height and having wood above helps with strength.
Extra timber around the top to support your rails.
Extra uprights.
A hole in the floor for a pier.
Go for a pitched roof that is strong enough to self support - stress this requirement.
Then get it delivered as a flat pack/kit.

Once it is at home, be very very generous with the wood preservative. You want it to last a long time.
If you do this before build, you can get into all the nooks and crannies.
Then start to look at the things you forgot to specify, and include them at build time.

Consider bolting the shed sides together. Or use woodscrews and steel corner brackets.
If it ever has to be taken apart - you don't want to be dealing with nails.

I adapted a garage up/over door opener to slide the roof on/off. Money well spent.

HTH, David.

Thanks for the comprehensive advice, David.  If I go ahead with a self-build, I'm going to use this as the basis of my checklist.

 

[ste7e]

18 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

About 11 years ago, my friend Philip built his observatory by adapting a metal garden shed. It was probably about 5 ft by 6 ft, with walls around 5.5ft high. He built a simple wooden H frame to hold the wooden runners. It worked well, although I felt it was a little on the snug side. But it was a cheap option.

Phil's observatory, with Phil and his 5" apo refractor.

 

I built mine by screwing a 3" by 2" frame to 3/4" ply, clad externally with white plastic tongue & groove to protect the wood from moisture, and internally, with black foam excercise matting to minimise stray light and which never needs painting. It stands 6 ft 6" high, is built on 5" joists with a 3/4" ply floor, and is fit long and 7 ft wide. The roof is covered with rubber roofing sheet which is glued to 1/2" ply, and rolls on angle iron runners using 5" wheels placed 1/3 of the way in from the outer edge of the roof. Placing the wheels so far in from the edge of the roof allows an H frame to be built closer to the main building. 11 years on and its still working flawlessly. The roof moves with the touch of my fingers! It currently houses a 6" F10 refractor.

Nice build, Mike.  I like the idea of using excercise mats to line the walls - the best use of excercise mats yet!

[ste7e]

17 hours ago, Nigella Bryant said:

I built a RoR out of a 10ft by 6ft existing shed. The telescope area is 6ftx6ft and the warm room 4ftx6ft. Cost was around £800. I just got some angle iron for the runner's, reinforced each corner, joint and around the top with 2inch x 3inch timber and used 4inch rubber caster's for runners. I'm up and running in 10mins. It's my solar shed. It really is easy, measure, cut, screw and make roof watertight, simples, lol. 

 

 

Thanks for the pics, Nigella.  The cat looks particularly impressed with that solar image.

Is your roof motorised?  I notice you haven't lined/insulated the walls.  Do you have moisture problems?

I also noticed the dome in the background.  Which manufacturer is that?  Does it work well?

[Mount Longlevens]

My base is down and I have fitted a pier. Unfortunately I ordered and paid a huge deposit to HOUK I have seen all the threads so I guess me and my Wife have lost our money. It's a shame as the observatory was for me and my family including my disabled daughter Chloe pictured.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Mount Longlevens