Buying a roll-off-roof observatory in the UK

[Nigella Bryant]

3 hours ago, ste7e said:

Thanks for the pics, Nigella.  The cat looks particularly impressed with that solar image.

Is your roof motorised?  I notice you haven't lined/insulated the walls.  Do you have moisture problems?

I also noticed the dome in the background.  Which manufacturer is that?  Does it work well?

Hi, no the RoR isn't motorized. Just easy to roll back with one hand. I didn't bother to line or insulate the interior of where the telescope's are. I've found no issues with moisture as there's plenty of ventilation. I insulated the warm room mainly for warmth in the winter and doors open in the summer, lol. 

The dome is a pulsar 2.7m and is great. That's my night time obsy. Bought second hand and renovated. The dome renovation and relocation to where I live now is on SGL if interested. 

Yeah, my cat's often relax with me in the warm room, lol. 

[ste7e]

An update:

I've been persuaded... I've just placed an order for a plastic 6x8 Keter shed which I'm hoping I'll be able to convert to a roll off.

Before I start I need to move an existing shed off the patch where I'm going to place the observatory.  Sounds a simple step.  But, when I emptied the shed I found a bee's nest in there.  So, I've been spending my time preparing the new site for the old shed while I wait for the bees to finish nesting and move on (any time now, I'm told). 

I'll hold off thanking you all for persuading me to take the home-build/plastic-shed-conversion route until it works ... or doesn't...

So far all digits still in place

Edited June 4, 2022 by ste7e
Typos

[malc-c]

You sure its a bees nest and not a wasps nest ?

[ste7e]

6 hours ago, malc-c said:

You sure its a bees nest and not a wasps nest ?

Yeah.  They're white-tailed bumblebees to be exact

[Xsubmariner]

I built a ROS using a Ketter 6x8 plastic shed and it is working great. Here are a few pictures of the build. The only problem I experienced was a delay with the pier pit when my springer Amber fount somewhere cool to sleep through the afternoon. Good luck with your build.

 

[old_eyes]

I think you have a plan. Don't forget to tell us what happens!

My own self-build is recorded in this thread 

 

 

I had a lot of fun with it and it was not too hard. On your point about power tools (esp cutting), I did mine entirely with a hand saw. That was made easier, by designing around standard sizes and using corrugated metal cladding for most of the structure. I did have a battery drill and impact driver and they were essential to get the job done in some form of comfort.

I made many mistakes that have been partially corrected over time, and I was thinking about doing a lessons learned piece to go with the original build thread.

[ste7e]

I think it's about time I gave an update to this thread.

Thanks for all your help and encouragement.

I now have my very own roll-off-roof observatory at the bottom of my garden!  And, it even works!

I really enjoyed the build (and as a retired programmer, I especially enjoyed developing the software to automate and integrate the roof and the observatory lights - I love showing off to visitors by opening the roof by pressing a button on my watch).

After lots of suggestions from people here and a helpful phone call with one member (thanks, @Martin Farmer), I explored the option of getting a local shed builder to build a custom wooden building to my spec.

 

I found a very helpful shed company not a million miles from my home who was willing to make a building.  Ade at Staffordshire Sheds in Lichfield was really good - he spent loads of time going over what I wanted with me.  They supplied the shed with the necessary mods for me to add the extra rails and supports for the roof movement.  They even came back and helped me to get the roof on once I’d put the shed together and added the roof rail supports.  I’d thoroughly recommend Staffordshire Sheds if anyone else in the region is thinking of going the same route,

 

I built a Todmorden pier and had some help from @Peter Drew when I was worried about a little wobble in the structure.

 

I really did enjoy the build, even though I did worry that I’d bitten off more than I could chew a few times.  Building the pier was a new experience for me as I had never done any concrete work before.  Converting a brake disc into a pier adapter was more in my wheelhouse but still an interesting job.  And I enjoyed the woodwork.  Hadn’t done much of that for years.

 

Roof opening:

The scope in the obsy:

 

I motorised the roof with a gate opener and added a bit of extra electronics so that I could integrate it with an Arduino controller.  In fact, I used two Arduino controllers, one to control the roof and the rain sensor and another to add a WiFi interface and to control the lights.  The lights themselves were the simple stick-on LED strip lights you can get off ebay.  I bought two strips, one white and one red.  Then cut each strip into two so that I could have a white and red strip on each side of the obsy.  The Arduino controls these so that I can dim them, select which colour and which side (or both) to light up.

 

The Arduino controller coupled with the ASCOM drivers I developed plus a windows app means that the roof will refuse any close instruction unless the scope is parked.  If it rains (or I press a certain button), the windows app will park the scope and then close the roof.  That protects the scope from being hit by the closing roof when it would otherwise be in the way of the roof.

 

I added a remote control to open/close/stop the roof and turn the lights on and off.  Plus pressing and holding the close button will do the same park & close function that would happen when the rain sensor triggers.

 

And, as I mentioned earlier, I developed a phone and smartwatch app to control everything remotely.

 

The switches in the observatory (for the lights and the roof) are all inputs to the Arduino controllers so they’re all nice low-voltage, low-current switches.  I used my 3D printer for the switch housings.

 

So, it’s been quite a project - digging holes, erecting posts, building a shed, building a pier & pier mount, a touch of electronics (MOSFET circuit to drive the LEDs), Arduino programming, ASCOM driver programming, Windows app programming, Android app programming, Smartwatch app programming, 3D printing.  

 

I’ve loved every second of it!  

 

And I now have my very own observatory which will close itself if it rains and at the end of an imaging session. I’ve so far got a very acceptable M33 image.  Just need some more clear nights now.

 

I know I’ve gone into a lot of detail here and if you’ve read this far, I applaud you.  Reading it back it sounds like a list of my accomplishments but I really wanted to express how multi-facetted the project was and how enjoyable each different element was.

 

Next stages (I need another project for next summer) will be to raise the pier by half a block to get more clearance from the walls and I’m already thinking of upgrading the scope but can’t decide whether to go for a refractor or stick with a reflector.

 

[Nigella Bryant]

Brilliant build, well done. You done an excellent job and well worth it. I can be up and imaging the sun in my solar shed in five mins. Pic from today, lol. 

[ste7e]

Nice pic, Nigella.  I keep thinking of getting into solar imaging - the hours are better   Maybe one day

[Nigella Bryant]

4 minutes ago, ste7e said:

Nice pic, Nigella.  I keep thinking of getting into solar imaging - the hours are better   Maybe one day

Definitely better hour's, my most used scopes compared to night's, lol. 

[Xsubmariner]

Still clinging onto the Nightshift, but the solar temptations are growing.

[wimvb]

2 hours ago, Xsubmariner said:

Still clinging onto the Nightshift, but the solar temptations are growing.

Over here it’s clouded 24/7. No need to switch shifts unfortunately. ☁️

[Xsubmariner]

Hi Wim, you have my sympathy.  There I was about to complain the ambient temperature was too high causing all the cloud, then the cold spell arrived and following one night of imaging I am subjected to heavy fog and AP is all but useless, yet again. I question the sanity of U.K. AP imagers, either were half full guys and girls or just fools. Considering the systems cost aggregated to nights of actual use this hobby is more expensive than @#§¥@#%&, enough said.

[david_taurus83]

On 01/12/2022 at 18:41, Xsubmariner said:

 I question the sanity of U.K. AP imagers, either were half full guys and girls or just fools. Considering the systems cost aggregated to nights of actual use this hobby is more expensive than @#§¥@#%&, enough said.

Indeed the latter! As the old saying goes, "An astrophotographer and his money is very easily parted" 🙂

[Nigella Bryant]

My solar stats are far higher than my night stats. 185 days last year for solar, this year 100 days so far but I had health issues June and July so none those month's. My night stats 36 last year and 18 this year. So my solar far outways my night. 

Come over to the light from the dark, lol. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Nigella Bryant

[ONIKKINEN]

Since i work evenings and wake up no earlier than 13:00 each day, the sun has set permanently for this year many months ago. Doubt i will see the sun at observable altitudes before March! It would be funny if it wasnt somewhat sad, but we have a day for the grayest day of the year: https://www.originallongdrink.com/en/history/2010/the-greyest-day-of-the-year/

By an alcohol company of course, because what else is there to do in November . The celebrations have sadly lasted all of november, and according to the forecast, will be lasting throughout most of December.

Astronomy is a terrible choice of a hobby for someone in the nordics.

[Xsubmariner]

10 hours ago, Nigella Bryant said:

Come over to the light from the dark,

Clearly “The Force” is strong in you Nigella.

[Nigella Bryant]

4 hours ago, Xsubmariner said:

Clearly “The Force” is strong in you Nigella

"Fear is the path to the dark side" Xsubmariner, lol. 

[jacko61]

Hi Steve. 

Could you post a couple of photos of how you've arranged the gate opener on the shed and the roof please?  I've been thinking of motorising my roof as it's very heavy but haven't got a clue how at the mo.

cheers

Graeme

[ste7e]

1 hour ago, jacko61 said:

Hi Steve. 

Could you post a couple of photos of how you've arranged the gate opener on the shed and the roof please?  I've been thinking of motorising my roof as it's very heavy but haven't got a clue how at the mo.

cheers

Graeme

Hi Graeme

I builit a support to mount the motor unit at roof height.

 

The toothed rail is attached along one side of the roof and the motor is engaged with this.

 

They're not great photos but it's too cold out there to stand around with a camera

I bought the motor off ebay and it was a bit of a project in itself!  The gate opener I wanted was one that could connect to three buttons: open, close and stop.  Then I could replace the buttons with an Arduino board to simulate the button presses.  That was my plan, anyway.  But, it turns out the manufacturers all seem to have changed to a single button operation.  One button press will open the gate (or roof.)  The next button press will close the gate.  If the gate is moving when the button is pressed the button will stop the movement and the next button press will reverse the last operation. 

The effect of the single-button logic is that, if you press the button to open the gate/roof and then press the stop button to interupt it, when you next press the button the roof/gate will close.  So, you need to then open the roof, you need press once to stop the closing movement and press the button again to open it.  Which is all fine for a roof-to-human interface but not so useful for an automated installation. 

So, to control the motor via ASCOM - so I can close the roof by command regardless of the current state of the roof (open, closed or moving), I needed to put some logic in place to keep a track of what state the roof is in so that the action that would be performed by the next button pressed could be predicted.  So, my Arduino controller now will press and release (virtually, of course) the button the right number of times to get the roof to perform whatever action is requested from the ASCOM client.  Also it means I can now open and close the roof with a toggle button in the observatory - left to close, right to open - or from dedicated buttons on the remote control.

Anyhow, if you're interested in automating your roof, let me know and I'll send you details of how I drive the motor from the Arduino board - I can even send you my Arduino code if you like.

[jacko61]

Thanks for the update Steve. fixing the opener to the outside of the roof is so blindingly obvious it hadn't crossed my mind (which is why I've been struggling to figure it out - doh! ).  I stand in awe of your programming skills - I'm happy right now to go out to the shed to open it up and get everything set up for imaging.  I tend to either stay in the warm room or keep an eye on the weather / clouds out of the window if I come into the house so automating anything is a long way off (I'm still struggling with meridian flips so got quite a surprise this morning when my EQ8r flipped itself whilst imaging M42 - I didn't tell it to although I had previously set limits in EQmod. 

One last question if I may?  Right now I have a simple wooden rail with raised edges and 4 casters either side to roll the roof off.  Unfortunately there's quite a bit of sideways movement so I was wondering what you have your roof mounted on?  I'm looking at a V rail with V wheels but welcome any suggestions

Graeme

 

[ste7e]

11 hours ago, jacko61 said:

Thanks for the update Steve. fixing the opener to the outside of the roof is so blindingly obvious it hadn't crossed my mind (which is why I've been struggling to figure it out - doh! ).  I stand in awe of your programming skills - I'm happy right now to go out to the shed to open it up and get everything set up for imaging.  I tend to either stay in the warm room or keep an eye on the weather / clouds out of the window if I come into the house so automating anything is a long way off (I'm still struggling with meridian flips so got quite a surprise this morning when my EQ8r flipped itself whilst imaging M42 - I didn't tell it to although I had previously set limits in EQmod. 

One last question if I may?  Right now I have a simple wooden rail with raised edges and 4 casters either side to roll the roof off.  Unfortunately there's quite a bit of sideways movement so I was wondering what you have your roof mounted on?  I'm looking at a V rail with V wheels but welcome any suggestions

Graeme

 

I used V wheels and rail.  It's gate opening hardware again.  I was going to get box section steel and get it galvanised but when I looked into it, I decided the purpose-made galvanised rails woule be easier to fit and they even worked out cheaper.  The rails I used were on ebay - asearch for auto020V (it's the product code) should find them.  I bought the wheels from a different ebay seller - a search for '2 inch v-track wheel' should find similar.

I envy you being able to image last night.  I haven't got my dew control set up yet so I've missed out on on the clear frozen nights we've had recently.  I'm off to pick up a Pegesus Powerbox later today to use as the controller.  Just in time for the clouds to roll in...