Skywatcher AZ GTI mount owners thread

[AstroNebulee]

8 hours ago, LDW1 said:

I was told some time ago on this site to use True North not Magnetic North ( compass ), in my part of the world Magnetic North has a west declination of about 10° from True North, when setting my Gti alignment and levelling. But when I do use True North my targeted dso object is about 10° to the left of where my telescope stops ie I have to manually shift my scope to the left to make it line up. This tells me that I should be using Magnetic North to set my alignment for the nite not True North. Its quite consistent with every object. Did some one give me the wrong instructions when I asked or what am I doing wrong ?

Yes you generally use true North to perform the az gti alignment process. what alignment routine are you using? 

Lee 

[AndyM001]

25 minutes ago, AstroNebulee said:

The alignment shoukd get better with every object slewed to. What alignment process were you using? 

If it was one star alignment it will be slightly off. I usually use North level alignment and the first one is off a bit the but the next and next one are centred. 

I think @happy-kat uses 1 star alignment but does this alignment more than once and gets accurate gotos and works for them. 

Enjoy your holiday in Cornwall it's beautiful here. 

Lee 

Thanks, I did the 1 star alignment, so will try the North level alignment next time. Although the initial alignment was off, I'm not too worried as the mount managed to track the objects very well, was just a little surprised how far off it was.

Thanks, yes, I've been down to Cornwall a number of times over the years. I have a friend down on the Lizard, and the last time I was down there in August the skies were particularly clear, which prompted me to get another scope.

[AstroNebulee]

1 hour ago, AndyM001 said:

Thanks, I did the 1 star alignment, so will try the North level alignment next time. Although the initial alignment was off, I'm not too worried as the mount managed to track the objects very well, was just a little surprised how far off it was.

Thanks, yes, I've been down to Cornwall a number of times over the years. I have a friend down on the Lizard, and the last time I was down there in August the skies were particularly clear, which prompted me to get another scope.

Like I say the more gotos it does the more accurate it becomes. Make sure your mount is level too. If you can use a spirit level to level the mount and scope as the bubble level on the mount can be a bit off. 

It's beautiful down on the Lizard tho nor been in many many years. When it's right on your doorstep here you take it for granted. 

Lee 

[happy-kat]

I only use magnetic north with a compass to align the mount and I use the mount with EQ firmware in altaz mode

[LDW1]

6 hours ago, AstroNebulee said:

Yes you generally use true North to perform the az gti alignment process. what alignment routine are you using? 

Lee 

I was / am using the north level alignment using True North as I mention.  Now I am going to try Magnetic north but I wanted to confirm my use of true north. I do it using an electronic compass on my ipad that will show either True or Magnetic North alignment ie the approx. 10° west declination difference.

Edited September 16, 2023 by LDW1

[LDW1]

4 hours ago, happy-kat said:

I only use magnetic north with a compass to align the mount and I use the mount with EQ firmware in altaz mode

I am going to try Magnetic North now because True North use is way off as I mention, I use az .

[Elp]

By all means try both, but when I was researching this a few years back true north makes sense. Magnetic north is constantly moving even though it may only affect a mount on a minor level (for navigation it's critical). If unsure, use Polaris as a north guide, it works for AP even though Polaris itself rotates ever so slightly around the earth's pole axis. Also conduct at least a 2 star (3 star will be the most accurate as mathematically you need 3 points (x, y, z) in 3D space), if you're not conducting the star alignment procedure your mounts sky model won't be aligned. Also make sure the readings from your phone for location and time in synscan pro are correct.

[LDW1]

11 minutes ago, Elp said:

By all means try both, but when I was researching this a few years back true north makes sense. Magnetic north is constantly moving even though it may only affect a mount on a minor level (for navigation it's critical). If unsure, use Polaris as a north guide, it works for AP even though Polaris itself rotates ever so slightly around the earth's pole axis. Also conduct at least a 2 star (3 star will be the most accurate as mathematically you need 3 points (x, y, z) in 3D space), if you're not conducting the star alignment procedure your mounts sky model won't be aligned. Also make sure the readings from your phone for location and time in synscan pro are correct.

I use a 2 and sometimes 3 star alignment, very rarely do I use Polaris based on my yard location. I use my ipad which is as good as it gets for everything.

[LDW1]

3 hours ago, Elp said:

By all means try both, but when I was researching this a few years back true north makes sense. Magnetic north is constantly moving even though it may only affect a mount on a minor level (for navigation it's critical). If unsure, use Polaris as a north guide, it works for AP even though Polaris itself rotates ever so slightly around the earth's pole axis. Also conduct at least a 2 star (3 star will be the most accurate as mathematically you need 3 points (x, y, z) in 3D space), if you're not conducting the star alignment procedure your mounts sky model won't be aligned. Also make sure the readings from your phone for location and time in synscan pro are correct.

What makes sense and what is actual can be different sometimes !  I would like to see the instruction (actual) in writing somewhere, I haven't seen / found it yet.

Edited September 16, 2023 by LDW1
more words

[badhex]

12 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

What makes sense and what is actual can be different sometimes !  I would like to see the instruction (actual) in writing somewhere, I haven't seen / found it yet.

Manual is pretty basic and only mentions 'North' without specifying True or Magnetic in the alignment section. That said, it refers to the home position of the telescope being "True North", page 7, so we can infer from that that True North is assumed for alignment as well, as this is where the telescope should be when starting a north level alignment procedure. 

synscan_app_manual_en_20201008.pdf

[AndyM001]

9 hours ago, AstroNebulee said:

Like I say the more gotos it does the more accurate it becomes. Make sure your mount is level too. If you can use a spirit level to level the mount and scope as the bubble level on the mount can be a bit off. 

It's beautiful down on the Lizard tho nor been in many many years. When it's right on your doorstep here you take it for granted. 

Lee 

Thanks, using a spirit level I've noticed that both the bubbles on the tripod and mount are a little off.

[LDW1]

38 minutes ago, badhex said:

Manual is pretty basic and only mentions 'North' without specifying True or Magnetic in the alignment section. That said, it refers to the home position of the telescope being "True North", page 7, so we can infer from that that True North is assumed for alignment as well, as this is where the telescope should be when starting a north level alignment procedure. 

synscan_app_manual_en_20201008.pdf 653.32 kB · 0 downloads

Thats what I wanted to see but I don't know why my target dso is always about that 10° west of where my scope stops, every time ? My levelling, my True North alignment and etc. is checked and double checked over more than one nite. I will try using True North again but I will also try it with Magnetic North next time as well.  PS:  Having said that it might be the compass on my ipad, I will double check the True North vs Magnetic North settings also and then check it with a couple more compasses, that may be where the problem is !

Edited September 16, 2023 by LDW1

[LDW1]

33 minutes ago, badhex said:

Manual is pretty basic and only mentions 'North' without specifying True or Magnetic in the alignment section. That said, it refers to the home position of the telescope being "True North", page 7, so we can infer from that that True North is assumed for alignment as well, as this is where the telescope should be when starting a north level alignment procedure. 

synscan_app_manual_en_20201008.pdf 653.32 kB · 0 downloads

I would have thought that SW would have been very specific, very clear where no one could miss it because it is a very important instruction in this whole excercise of alignment with their product. SW is usually pretty good, I have owned / used a lot of their gear over many years. We shall see !

[LDW1]

26 minutes ago, AndyM001 said:

Thanks, using a spirit level I've noticed that both the bubbles on the tripod and mount are a little off.

Many times a little off means nothing, you can only get so close on uneven ground, it can't be anyother way when each leg is at a different ground elevation.  Someone once said ' close enough is good enough ', lol !

[AndyM001]

15 hours ago, LDW1 said:

Many times a little off means nothing, you can only get so close on uneven ground, it can't be anyother way when each leg is at a different ground elevation.  Someone once said ' close enough is good enough ', lol !

Use so far has been on a flat patio in the garden, just wasn't sure how good it had to be, but I guess some error can be taken out with the alignment and subsequent GoTo's, so 'close enough is good enough' sounds good to me. 

[AndyM001]

Okay, so I'm now looking at power supply for the mount, I currently have Duracell batteries in mine, but want to move to something rechargeable. I've read that some people use the TalentCell power pack, and a few have mentioned rechargeable batteries. I've seen some cheaper versions of the TalentCell (around half price), anyone had any experience of them, or recommend any alternatives? I'm on a bit of a budget at the moment as I've just ordered some accessories, and it's all starting to add up, thanks.

[badhex]

8 hours ago, AndyM001 said:

Use so far has been on a flat patio in the garden, just wasn't sure how good it had to be, but I guess some error can be taken out with the alignment and subsequent GoTo's, so 'close enough is good enough' sounds good to me. 

If anything, the thing that is most important Re levelling is the tripod. If the installed bubble level is a bit off, use a separate level to ensure the tripod top is level, obviously you can adjust each leg independently until you're sorted. Of course, you don't need to go crazy about it but level by eye with a spirit level should be enough. 

The issue with not being level is that the mount will always assume you are. As an example, imagine three objects at the same altitude, with azimuths of 0°, 120° and 240°. If you slew to the object at 0° then adjust a little up or down.  If the base is not level, when you slew to 120° you will need to adjust again, sligty up for down to account for the tilt and your previous adjustment. Once again when you slew to 240°, you will again need to adjust up or down to account for the tilt and your previous adjustment. 

8 hours ago, AndyM001 said:

Okay, so I'm now looking at power supply for the mount, I currently have Duracell batteries in mine, but want to move to something rechargeable. I've read that some people use the TalentCell power pack, and a few have mentioned rechargeable batteries. I've seen some cheaper versions of the TalentCell (around half price), anyone had any experience of them, or recommend any alternatives? I'm on a bit of a budget at the moment as I've just ordered some accessories, and it's all starting to add up, thanks.

In general, just make sure that you are definitely getting a solid 12v with whatever power pack you are using, even when slewing at full speed. The mount can be a bit picky if it drops too far below 12v, eg dropping out of slewing, or slewing to a random direction or even resetting.

Edited September 17, 2023 by badhex
Correction for clarity

[AstroNebulee]

6 hours ago, AndyM001 said:

Okay, so I'm now looking at power supply for the mount, I currently have Duracell batteries in mine, but want to move to something rechargeable. I've read that some people use the TalentCell power pack, and a few have mentioned rechargeable batteries. I've seen some cheaper versions of the TalentCell (around half price), anyone had any experience of them, or recommend any alternatives? I'm on a bit of a budget at the moment as I've just ordered some accessories, and it's all starting to add up, thanks.

I cannot comment on the cheaper versions of the talentcell battery packs but I use this one. Had it for a couple of years now and it's brilliant. It doesn't run out quickly at all (I've never had it run out, though I've kept it down to 4 hour sessions observing and planetary imaging. They don't lose much power and so portable that they go in your pocket. I thoroughly recommend these for AzGti users. 

Lee 

[LDW1]

18 minutes ago, AstroNebulee said:

I cannot comment on the cheaper versions of the talentcell battery packs but I use this one. Had it for a couple of years now and it's brilliant. It doesn't run out quickly at all (I've never had it run out, though I've kept it down to 4 hour sessions observing and planetary imaging. They don't lose much power and so portable that they go in your pocket. I thoroughly recommend these for AzGti users. 

Lee 

So how does it connect, do you insert it in the battery compartment ?  How about a pic or two.

[AstroNebulee]

2 hours ago, LDW1 said:

So how does it connect, do you insert it in the battery compartment ?  How about a pic or two.

It connects via a 2.1 jack cable (I use a lynx astro silicone one) from the battery pack to the AzGti. This then pops into a little lens case pouch strapped to the tripod,to keep the dew off. 

Lee 

Edited September 17, 2023 by AstroNebulee

[LDW1]

12 minutes ago, AstroNebulee said:

It connects via a 2.1 jack cable (I use a lynx astro silicone one) ftom the battery pack to the AzGti. 

Lee 

Interesting !

[Elp]

Also use the talentcell but the 100Wh one, powers this mount in full AP mode for around 3-4 hours in decent weather, it's good enough to also power my larger mount setups for a shorter duration. The Celestron Lithium LT powers for around 2-3 hours full AP mode. For alt az estimate double the time at least in decent temps, colder brings down the time.

[AndyM001]

14 hours ago, AstroNebulee said:

I cannot comment on the cheaper versions of the talentcell battery packs but I use this one. Had it for a couple of years now and it's brilliant. It doesn't run out quickly at all (I've never had it run out, though I've kept it down to 4 hour sessions observing and planetary imaging. They don't lose much power and so portable that they go in your pocket. I thoroughly recommend these for AzGti users. 

Lee 

Thanks, managed to find them on eBay, they don't have the USB slot, but at the price couldn't resist.

TWIN PACK - TalentCell YB1203000 O/P 9-12.6v@3000mAh Brand New | eBay

 

[AstroNebulee]

4 hours ago, AndyM001 said:

Thanks, managed to find them on eBay, they don't have the USB slot, but at the price couldn't resist.

TWIN PACK - TalentCell YB1203000 O/P 9-12.6v@3000mAh Brand New | eBay

 

That's a good deal for 2 power packs. 

[StevieDvd]

On 16/09/2023 at 20:04, LDW1 said:

I would have thought that SW would have been very specific, very clear where no one could miss it because it is a very important instruction in this whole excercise of alignment with their product. SW is usually pretty good, I have owned / used a lot of their gear over many years. We shall see !

They do in the manual state True North for setting up home position (AZ mode).  Your home position, levelling and location/date & time are used to help align the mount by centering the alignment stars and the mount compensating for inaccuracies.  The uptake of plate-solving has made these inaccuracies less of a problem, as the software would be able to centre the target after a plate-solve.

Using a manual polar alignment system such as a polar scope, the correct axis is found by knowing the position of Polaris in relation to the NCP and placing that in the right hourly position. So when the PA is correct, and the mount rotated, Polaris would spin around in a circle with the NCP in the middle. So if your time/date or location is wrong that position you centred Polaris in would be wrong and hence the assumed position of the NCP would be out as well. Note we have not used a True or Magnetic North for this manual process, but the NCP would be True North (no magnets or compass used).

So True North is best to use, but if Magnetic is close then the alignment error correcting should compensate for either of them. If the degree offset is large then True North should be used, if Magnetic gives a better result then there is a compensating error.

https://gisgeography.com/magnetic-north-vs-geographic-true-pole/