Under dark, dark skies

[John]

I've just returned from a week under very dark skies indeed, the darkest that I've experienced as far as I can recall.

We stayed in a remote cottage deep in a valley on Dartmoor. No WiFi or mobile signal which is why I've not been on the forum for a week !

We had 3 nights of totally clear skies and they were fabulously dark. There are no street lights in the valley and only a handful of scattered cottages. When the lights of our cottage were turned off there was literally no man-made light around at all.

No moon intruding either so I had these wonderful late summer skies to myself and my 11x70 binoculars

Using the naked eye, the milky way was really obvious and bright from Cassiopeia through to Altair. It could easily be traced much further than that reaching down through Perseus on one side of the sky and down into Scutum on the other. The great dark rift in Cygnus was stark with the bright, dense star fields of our galaxy flowing like rivers either side of it.

Deep sky objects such as the double cluster in Perseus and Messier 31, the Andromeda galaxy were really prominent and easy to see even for my wife who usually struggles with anything faint. As my eyes adjusted to the darkness I found that I could see objects such as the North American nebula and, the bright globular clusters Messier 13 and 92 in Hercules without any optical aid at all. The last mentioned was not at the zenith and is magnitude 6.3 so I reckon the naked eye limit towards the zenith was around magnitude 7, possibly even better.

As Triangulum rose higher in the sky the misty patch of Messier 33 could be identified with averted vision and on and off, directly. That's not something that I've experienced before.

Using the 11x70 binoculars (hand held) was a further revelation. The sheer volume of stars, even in parts of the sky which I though were relatively barren from home, was overwhelming. Messier 31 showed not only it's bright core but the extended nebulosity of it's spiral arms extending well beyond the edges of the 4 degree true field of view of the binoculars. Added to that, Messier 32 and Messier 110 were very clear accompanying the Great Andromeda Galaxy.

Messier 33 was very prominent and took on an "S" on it's side form from the spiral arms.

In Ursa Major, Messiers 81 and 82 were very notable and both showing their distinctive shapes normally only seen with scope. U. Major's other notable galaxes such as M51 (two dim eyes) and the often elusive M101 were also straightforward binocular targets under these conditions.

Looking towards the zenith, Cygnus dominated the sky but the famous Lyra and Vulpecula planetary nebulae of Messier 57 (the Ring) and Messier 27 (the Dumbbell) were clear even at a paltry and hand held 11x. The highlights within the mighty Swan were the North America and Pelican Nebulae (NGC 7000 and IC 5070 / 5067) with their full forms and relative locations very distinct and to cap it all the whole of the Veil Nebula, the delicate feathery curl of the Eastern segment, the twisted spike of the Western and the very delicate tapering haze of Pickering's Wisp. Marvelous sights and truly memorable

The only astronomical equipment that I had on the trip were my eyes and my 70mm binoculars but under those skies they provided more than enough memorable sights. No filters needed, even for the nebulae.

Needless to say I will be pressing for a return to Dartmoor and it's skies soon !

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by John

[Stu]

Wow, sounds amazing John. I knew Dartmoor was dark, but perhaps did not appreciate it was THAT dark. So glad you had three clear nights to make the most of it. It’s not so far for me now, so I’ll have to try to get up the sometime soon.

[jetstream]

Excellent!!

[John]

13 minutes ago, Stu said:

Wow, sounds amazing John. I knew Dartmoor was dark, but perhaps did not appreciate it was THAT dark. So glad you had three clear nights to make the most of it. It’s not so far for me now, so I’ll have to try to get up the sometime soon.

I can tell you Stu that my jaw nearly hit the ground when I stepped outside on the first of the clear nights

I've experienced a couple of dark nights at the SGL star parties but nothing like this.

I think the location of the cottage quite high up (for Devon) but in a valley and rather remote from other houses was a contributory factor.

 

[Deadlake]

My brother in law lives just south of Builth Wells, heart of Wales.
It's SQM 21.8, tempted to take a 4" there and see what whats possible.
As usual its what's packable into the car. 

How does altitude (above sea level) affect seeing, imagine it helps????

Edited September 10, 2021 by Deadlake

[John]

14 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

How does altitude (above sea level) affect seeing, imagine it helps????

I think it helps but we were not that high up - maybe 350 metres ?

I think what made the skies dark were very few man-made light sources in the a sparsely inhabited valley and the surrounding hills shielding any light domes from nearby towns (the nearest was 8 miles away).

I've taken a 6 inch scope to a dark sky and had similar deep sky performance to a 10 inch at home. My back yard is not too bad as long as you avoid the horizons to the SW and NE where large cities lurk. I've seen the Horsehead Nebula with my 12 inch dob a couple of times which I feel is a reasonable achievement from a garden in the edge of a large town.

It was lovely to get under a really dark sky for a while though

 

 

 

 

[Franklin]

37 minutes ago, John said:

I can tell you Stu that my jaw nearly hit the ground when I stepped outside on the first of the clear nights

I lived down Devon for over 10 years and regularly went up Dartmoor. Definately the darkest skies I've ever seen. Laid on a camping mat in the middle of winter staring into the heavens makes you feel like your actually in space, amazing experience. Can't wait to get back there some day.

[paulastro]

Excellent John, well written.  That reminds me of when I spent a night along with some  Beduins in the Sinai desert many years ago. As you say it was mind blowing, I actually cried I was so overwhelmed.  I remember seeing a small hazy looking  oval shape on the horizon which was M31 rising.  When looking north, there were so many stars it took a while for me to make out the Plough! 

I also learnt how  noisy camels are when bedded down fir the night 😁.

Nowadays I have to settle for my annual deep sky fix at Kelling every Autumn.  

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by paulastro

[Captain Scarlet]

I’ve just come in from a similarly pristine and totally unforecast clear night, at the place where I’ve recently moved to, a 21.8 location in SW Ireland. I had my 12” out for what was probably my most memorable session yet. I’ll write it up tomorrow hopefully.

I can relate to your wonder. I too imagined I could just about detect a misty patch around where M33 should be.

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

Reminds me of my trip to Kielder last September. Like nothing I've seen before and the bino view was so startling the little travel Mak stayed in the tent.

I'm under canvas at the mo' in the Yorkshire Dales. (I woke up for a pee & can't get back to sleep - too many fire side beers!). Cloudy here, although we can't see the clouds, we know they are there because we cannot see the stars! A five minute brilliant zenith view of the Milky Way teased us around 11pm last night. 🙄 Zoomed into our exact pitch on lightpollution.info says SQM 21.75. Elevation 273 metres. If the sky clears I'll be happy with half John's observations!

Nice write up John. 😀

[Sunshine]

7 hours ago, John said:

I found that I could see objects such as the North American nebula and, the bright globular clusters Messier 13 and 92 in Hercules without any optical aid at all.

This had me looking off and away from my monitor, lost in a daydream about being under such skies.

[ONIKKINEN]

This post reminds me of why i got into astronomy at all, at least why i finally decided that amateurs can indeed have this kind of experience. Sorry if i intrude on this topic with a long story of my own, but i feel like this is similar.

I always had an interest in space, like i believe any teenage boy has, but now i was in the Finnish army, 19 years old, tired, hungry and cold, safe to say i had no interest in astronomy, but.

Me and a couple of my mates were ordered on a long distance recon mission around 12km away, across a lake and some untouched terrain for what was assumed to be a 10 hour mission. The mission started well after dark and had us skiing across a lake (frozen, of course. It was late march and -26c after we had "rested well" in a barely above 0 tent. Needless to say i was ready to ski any distance to anywhere on Earth as it gives warmth and something to think other than i want to devour a can of pringles in 2 minutes, also i had pringles that i could smuggle to the mission :).  ) to get to our destination. The military exercise area was far outside any civilization and streetlights, i would say it was around bortle 2-3 or even better as this was also a designated artillery target area (not where you want to have "oops we missed" incidents...). Of course light pollution map says something else but i have learned not to trust it. Trust me it was bang on in the middle of nowhere and in the road to nowhere, but farther, and it was a dirtroad with potholes.  The exercise was chosen to be held at a new moon night, at least thats what we all believed because it would be more effective (we were recon). It was dark. Uncanny-dark, if you're in the forest you literally cannot see your legs-dark. City boys like the most of us were had never really seen a true dark sky and frankly i will tell you that it did not look like it was real, the dim light from my digital watchwas a serious source of light...

I was the lucky one to be supplied with a VV2000 unit (ValonVahvistin2000, stands for LightAmpflifier, model year 2000, some sort of night vision device. As far as i can tell in hindsight it was like any other night vision device, it cannot create light but would magnify any little light that hits it mostly in infrared). This could be fitted to my rifle but i chose not to, since its bulky and really i don't expect to shoot anyone in a mission where the entire point is to not be seen, so i just had it as a monocle-like general vision device. Recon forces like us were given no strict rules to do x in case of y like general rifleman jack of the trade folks as it was found more effective that way. The device was still needed as it was really dark, we relied on this device to cross ditches and other terrain features where we just could not physically be able to see what was happening.

But back to the lake crossing: It was a decent sized lake, a few kilometers across. In the middle of it we just stopped to look up to see an unheard of number of stars, it was a Moonless and COMPLETELY cloudless night. None of us had ever seen something like this before. It was a sea of stars horizon to horizon. The milky way was not really that obvious, it was just a field of stars one side of the horizon as it was low in the sky at this point. I looked up with my VV2000 unit and saw even more stars, clusters of stars, maybe even some nebulae? I was not into astronomy at the time and knew nothing of the targets that could be seen with the naked eye or a night vision device, but there were so many stars and clusters across the sky that it was hard to believe. Literally every corner, horizon to horizon was filled with very obvious stars through the night vision device. This was hard to believe as there were so many stars even without this. We all had a go at this and rested a bit in the middle of the lake looking at the stars, even though we had one NCO with us (who also was starstruck :D) and a very strict schedule to do what we were supposed to.

Sounds a lot like the skies in Dartmoor. I wish to see skies like these again with an actual telescope, or even normal binoculars!

Edit: this was 10 years ago, and i started this hobby properly just last year.

Edited September 11, 2021 by ONIKKINEN
Long ago.

[Stardaze]

Thought you’d been quiet. Sounds awesome. I had a taster this year when we were away, so have been looking at a few spots for next year for a trip.

[Nik271]

A great report! Makes me sad that we are missing this wonder with the light pollution in our cities.

Last week I managed a trip under very dark skies on holiday in Bulgaria and enjoyed the whole span of the Milky way: an arch across the sky, great rift and all. It was amazing. I was carrying only 10x50 binos but that was plenty, saw so much with them. My brother and his girlfriend were with me and were amazed that binoculars can show them so many stars and nebulas. They were most impressed with the Andromeda galaxy, it was obvious naked eye and looking huge in the binos. I got my perfect view of the North America nebula right at the zenith. In the cold my hands were freezing holding the binos after an hour but I didn't mind at all

[Pete Presland]

I was in Weybourne, Norfolk a couple of weeks back. The skies were excellent, It was just so nice to see the Milky Way again, we really are destroying all thats good about life. The free natural pleasures all around us will soon be gone.

These are the light pollution stats for Weybourne.

SQM 21.58 mag./arc sec2

Brightness 0.252 mcd/m2

Artif. bright. 80.9 μcd/m2

Ratio 0.473 Bortle class 4

Elevation  21 meters

 

This is where i live

SQM 20.28 mag./arc sec2

Brightness 0.831 mcd/m2

Artif. bright. 660 μcd/m2

Ratio 3.86

Bortle class 5

Elevation  37 meters

The difference did not look that big to me when i read it, but its huge when you are under the stars.

[ONIKKINEN]

11 minutes ago, Pete Presland said:

I was in Weybourne, Norfolk a couple of weeks back. The skies were excellent, It was just so nice to see the Milky Way again, we really are destroying all thats good about life. The free natural pleasures all around us will soon be gone.

These are the light pollution stats for Weybourne.

SQM 21.58 mag./arc sec2

Brightness 0.252 mcd/m2

Artif. bright. 80.9 μcd/m2

Ratio 0.473 Bortle class 4

Elevation  21 meters

 

This is where i live

SQM 20.28 mag./arc sec2

Brightness 0.831 mcd/m2

Artif. bright. 660 μcd/m2

Ratio 3.86

Bortle class 5

Elevation  37 meters

The difference did not look that big to me when i read it, but its huge when you are under the stars.

21.58, or even 20.28 sounds like a dream to me... My "local dark site" is a roughly 19.5 sqm place, and only to north and northwest. I hate to see bad skies in a country as lowly populated as Finland... Well there is a good reason, at least a good-ish reason for it. Winters are long and dark and roads must be lit for safety. Still i wish that things were different...

[Roy Challen]

8 hours ago, Deadlake said:

How does altitude (above sea level) affect seeing, imagine it helps????

I think it makes a big difference. I had a similar experience to @John, except I was observing from about 2000m above sea level. Although I have no other experience to compare, the air quality was amazing, so so clear. Was quite cold though, even in early May.

Also, no flight paths anywhere nearby, and absolutely zero light pollution.

Although I love my solar and planetary, this is still my Number One astro experience. Ever.

[Roy Challen]

8 hours ago, John said:

I've just returned from a week under very dark skies indeed, the darkest that I've experienced as far as I can recall.

We stayed in a remote cottage deep in a valley on Dartmoor. No WiFi or mobile signal which is why I've not been on the forum for a week !

We had 3 nights of totally clear skies and they were fabulously dark. There are no street lights in the valley and only a handful of scattered cottages. When the lights of our cottage were turned off there was literally no man-made light around at all.

No moon intruding either so I had these wonderful late summer skies to myself and my 11x70 binoculars

Using the naked eye, the milky way was really obvious and bright from Cassiopeia through to Altair. It could easily be traced much further than that reaching down through Perseus on one side of the sky and down into Scutum on the other. The great dark rift in Cygnus was stark with the bright, dense star fields of our galaxy flowing like rivers either side of it.

Deep sky objects such as the double cluster in Perseus and Messier 31, the Andromeda galaxy were really prominent and easy to see even for my wife who usually struggles with anything faint. As my eyes adjusted to the darkness I found that I could see objects such as the North American nebula and, the bright globular clusters Messier 13 and 92 in Hercules without any optical aid at all. The last mentioned was not at the zenith and is magnitude 6.3 so I reckon the naked eye limit towards the zenith was around magnitude 7, possibly even better.

As Triangulum rose higher in the sky the misty patch of Messier 33 could be identified with averted vision and on and off, directly. That's not something that I've experienced before.

Using the 11x70 binoculars (hand held) was a further revelation. The sheer volume of stars, even in parts of the sky which I though were relatively barren from home, was overwhelming. Messier 31 showed not only it's bright core but the extended nebulosity of it's spiral arms extending well beyond the edges of the 4 degree true field of view of the binoculars. Added to that, Messier 32 and Messier 110 were very clear accompanying the Great Andromeda Galaxy.

Messier 33 was very prominent and took on an "S" on it's side form from the spiral arms.

In Ursa Major, Messiers 81 and 82 were very notable and both showing their distinctive shapes normally only seen with scope. U. Major's other notable galaxes such as M51 (two dim eyes) and the often elusive M101 were also straightforward binocular targets under these conditions.

Looking towards the zenith, Cygnus dominated the sky but the famous Lyra and Vulpecula planetary nebulae of Messier 57 (the Ring) and Messier 27 (the Dumbbell) were clear even at a paltry and hand held 11x. The highlights within the mighty Swan were the North America and Pelican Nebulae (NGC 7000 and IC 5070 / 5067) with their full forms and relative locations very distinct and to cap it all the whole of the Veil Nebula, the delicate feathery curl of the Eastern segment, the twisted spike of the Western and the very delicate tapering haze of Pickering's Wisp. Marvelous sights and truly memorable

The only astronomical equipment that I had on the trip were my eyes and my 70mm binoculars but under those skies they provided more than enough memorable sights. No filters needed, even for the nebulae.

Needless to say I will be pressing for a return to Dartmoor and it's skies soon !

 

 

 

 

 

Fantastic report, John. Certainly brings back memories.

[paulastro]

1 hour ago, Pete Presland said:

I was in Weybourne, Norfolk a couple of weeks back. The skies were excellent, It was just so nice to see the Milky Way again, we really are destroying all thats good about life. The free natural pleasures all around us will soon be gone.

These are the light pollution stats for Weybourne.

SQM 21.58 mag./arc sec2

Brightness 0.252 mcd/m2

Artif. bright. 80.9 μcd/m2

Ratio 0.473 Bortle class 4

Elevation  21 meters

 

This is where i live

SQM 20.28 mag./arc sec2

Brightness 0.831 mcd/m2

Artif. bright. 660 μcd/m2

Ratio 3.86

Bortle class 5

Elevation  37 meters

The difference did not look that big to me when i read it, but its huge when you are under the stars.

Of course Weybourne is not far from Kelling.  I can't wait to be back there on October 4th 😊.

[Knighty2112]

Only two words to describe what I feel; “Wow!”, and “jealous!”  

Great report John. Sounds like a magical place fo astronomy! 👍🏻

[Pixies]

3 hours ago, Pete Presland said:

I was in Weybourne, Norfolk a couple of weeks back. The skies were excellent, It was just so nice to see the Milky Way again, we really are destroying all thats good about life. The free natural pleasures all around us will soon be gone.

These are the light pollution stats for Weybourne.

SQM 21.58 mag./arc sec2

Brightness 0.252 mcd/m2

Artif. bright. 80.9 μcd/m2

Ratio 0.473 Bortle class 4

Elevation  21 meters

 

This is where i live

SQM 20.28 mag./arc sec2

Brightness 0.831 mcd/m2

Artif. bright. 660 μcd/m2

Ratio 3.86

Bortle class 5

Elevation  37 meters

The difference did not look that big to me when i read it, but its huge when you are under the stars.

I have been camping near Weybourne a few times, usually (as with most UK holidays for us) it was cloudy! I remember one clear night, though, trying to guide people to see Andromeda through hand-held binos. The campsite fires/lights broke dark adaption unfortunately.

Thanks for the inspiring report @John - I need to head back to the local SQM 21.7 site soon. Hopefully next new moon. 

[skyhog]

That's a great write up John. And great to hear a fellow enthusiast getting these opportunities. I think it's a shame so many folk don't get to appreciate the night sky in its full splendour because the kind of night you are describing is chalk and cheese to what many might think is reasonable dark sky. Thanks for posting. 

[chiltonstar]

Superb report John. I don't know Dartmoor very well, but it certainly matches my experience of a couple of very dark spots in Cornwall we've stayed in.

Such a shame that our children and grandchildren will never have this experience unless we do something serious about LP.

Chris

[John]

4 hours ago, Roy Challen said:

Although I love my solar and planetary, this is still my Number One astro experience. Ever.

It was one of my very best as well, in 40+ years in the hobby

Next time we go there though, I will be very tempted to take a small wide angle scope as well

 

[scarp15]

Cracking report John, I'd read your report last night and actually had this quite vivid dream about moving to some remote hilly dark sky place, prompted probably by this. Small wide field aperture, is very satisfying under those circumstances.