How to determine a fair price for second-hand equipment?

[Herrman]

Hi,

Could anyone please offer advice on how to determine a fair price for second-hand equipment?

Some months ago I place a for sale ad on SGL for a range of items, but managed to sell only one of them. I was surprised by the lack of interest (I had thought someone would have been tempted by the Atik EFW2), and can only assume the asking prices were too high. I’d determined my prices by first looking at eBay and Astro Buy & Sell, and then setting my prices slightly below the asking prices on these sites.

I’m now looking to sell some more equipment, and would hope to achieve greater success this time around.

So how best to determine fair asking prices? With car and houses, prices are set by ‘market forces’, but I’m not sure what forces control the trade of second-hand astro gear. I could invite offers, but then without knowing what to expect, I wouldn’t know if the sum offered was reasonable.

I’m not looking to make a killing; my idea to a good trade is when both parties come away content.

I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Best, Herrman

[scotty38]

It's maybe a simple comment that you'll get what someone is prepared to pay. In a lot of areas I take 50% of retail as a typical secondhand price but we have seen that astro gear bucks that trend a bit. Desirability and availability play a part too so if it's rare and unavailable you can price it high, if not it's more of the opposite. Invite offers and see what happens, you don't have to accept any offers and you'll know if you're prepared to accept whatever is offered. If you do not get offered what you want then you may have to accept you're priced too high.

[carastro]

I always price my items 2/3 new price if in good working order.  I think most people do the same.  If it is an older type model then I sometimes price it lower.

Carole 

[Herrman]

Thanks Scotty38, thanks Carole!

Your thoughts are most helpful.

I have a filter wheel and a mount that I think should prove popular, so I'll peg these at 2/3 retail value. The other items might not be so desirable, so these I'll ask 50%.

Thanks again, Herrman

[scotty38]

No probs but don't forget that one person's junk is another person's treasure so if someone is looking for something..... It goes without saying that generally once you've priced it you'll not get any more, it'll only go one way so balance quick sales vs waiting to find the right buyer too....

As you've seen though, price it too high and you'll soon get the answer you're looking for 🙂

Edited June 1, 2021 by scotty38

[Knighty2112]

Hard one as it depends on what you are selling; putting up a Celestron Astromaster 130eq to sell might not get much response or interest, whereas a William Optics  Zenith-star 71 would (normally) get many more responses and interest. In some cases this is hard to gauge, so when I put things up for sale and don't get any bites I just drop the price a bit after a while. Doesn't always work, but sometimes it does. A few items I have taken back off sale even after lower the price, as I’d rather keep it then giving it away for silly money.

[Tiny Clanger]

From what I've seen, sometimes wildly optimistic asking prices do get accepted , it just depends on someone thinking they are happy to  pay that price and have the cash burning a hole in their pocket at that moment ... you only need one such person to see the ad. !

On the other hand, you sometimes see stuff which the seller feels is more valuable than any potential buyers do, so unless the price is reduced, it languishes unsold. Things that are small and relatively robust (therefore easily posted), desirable (known good brands)  easily assessed from photos for condition, and under about £100 get snapped up as long  as the price is right : put a BST starguider EP ( FLO price £47) up for £40 plus P&P, watch it languish, but for £35 including P&P it will be gone in an instant. 2/3 of new price seems a good starting point.

On the other other  hand, a huge dob for several hundred pounds, seller wants collection only from some deeply rural location far from major centres of population ? That's not going to appeal to lots of people : a long , expensive, time consuming drive, possibly to find the 'scope is not something you want ?  Really specialist, niche stuff by its very nature has a limited audience too, it might get a good price but that could take a while.

Location is another factor : the way import regulations are at the moment, buying or selling internationally can be a factor, and there's also the seller's  reputation . I've bought a refractor , a diagonal, some filters and several eyepieces from various folk on here. To start with,  when I was new to SGL, I checked out the seller's previous message history to be confident my money was going to a genuine honest person. Now I'm familiar enough with the flow of conversations to recognise quite a few names, and can often make an instant decision. But if I saw an unfamiliar name, I'd still hesitate and check them out. What have they posted before ? Do they contribute , or just seem to sell ? Do they say whereabouts they live ? Do they give an impression of being a careful person or do they seem a bit slapdash ?

When it comes down to it, a thing  is only 'worth' what  someone is willing to pay for it.  If the seller thinks it's worth more to them , that's their belief, and they can keep the item, or leave the advert up in the hope that someone feels the price is reasonable, or reduce the price to turn the item into less cash than they anticipated . 

 

[Zermelo]

11 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

a thing  is only 'worth' what  someone is willing to pay for it

c.f. current house prices!

When I was looking to buy a previous house in a rising market, with a very high LTV mortgage, the surveyor's report said, basically, "everything's fine, but I don't think it's worth what you're going to pay for it". With no trace of irony.

On second-hand astro kit, the rule of thumb of two thirds retail price, for an in-production, in-stock item is often mentioned on here, and in happier times (before I joined) was presumably the norm.
For the last year or more, with so much stuff being out of stock, and with a surge in interest, I've seen items going for more than that (as well as the retail prices themselves going up). And for any kit that doesn't really wear, and has been looked after and is being sold by a known quantity, the risk is low enough.

And then of course for those sought-after, no-longer-manufactured items, (some quality Japanese orthos ...) it's often a sellers' market.

[Louis D]

If you're not getting any interest, try putting OBO in the ad somewhere for "Or Best Offer".  Sometimes, someone (or someones) will make an offer, even a low ball one, that might indicate some interest in your item.

I searched CN classifieds for the following from your ad and got the following ranges of asking prices that sold (no way to know if for that price):

Celestron 23mm Axiom: $125-$150

Lumicon 1.25" OIII filter: $60-$80

Atik EFW2: Impossible to search since you don't specify number of filter positions or size.  The range seems to be from $200 to $425.

Orion solar filter for 10" SCT: $140+

So, your asking prices in GBP would probably be 70% of those prices given the current exchange rate for USD to GBP.  Of course, the second hand British astro market may be more of a buyers or sellers market than the US market affecting asking prices.

[nfotis]

In general, the rule of thumb is "approximately 65-70 percent of new price", if it's a current production item.

For older models not anymore in production, it's supply and demand.

I guess that people don't want to pay 2/3rds the price of new for small scopes like a Skymax 102. Except if these are hard to find and popular, then the used price may approach the price when sold new. Putting an OBO in your ad permits you to gauge any interest on your items.

Also, you can check other places, like CN classifieds, Ebay, etc. to get an idea.

N.F.

[rnobleeddy]

I think market forces still operate to some degree - when I've seen something listed here (or on ABS) at a bargainous price its usually snapped up very quickly.

 

Generally 2/3 seems like a sensible starting price, although I'm much happier to buy a 10 year old OTA or mount for 2/3 of the new price than a 10 year old camera!

Generally I don't think there's any shame in wanting to maximize how much you sell your gear for, so I'd always err on the side of asking for a little more and being willing to reduce the price if needed.

[Herrman]

Dear All,

Very many thanks for your kind and helpful responses. There does seem to be a consensus that around the 66% of retail value is the going rate, so that's what I'll aim to achieve. However, I have an old (but in good nick) ETX125 with Autostar, although a great little instrument, I suspect there are newer all-singing and dancing models out there to be had, so I'd be surprised to achieve 2/3 of the original price.

Tiny Clanger; thanks for mentioning the importance of location- you'll see I've updated my profile.

Louis D; thanks for pointing out the incomplete filter wheel description, I'll be sure to revise my ad to include the missing information, and the US prices you mention are very helpful.

Scotty38; Yes, one person's junk..., never a truer word. I have a friend who trades regularly on eBay and car boot sales I can't believe some of the junk he manages to sell (of some of the stuff he buys for that matter!).

Mobleeddy; Agreed! I had a 10 year old EOS350 which I ended-up giving away. However, I took my first astro-photos with a Zenith B (Christmas present, 1973), I could never part with that- if this old lens could talk.

Thanks again all for your very helpful replies. Best, Herrman

 

[Robindonne]

Im not sure what you’ve offered before that didn’t sell in the end, but an etx 125 can easily be sold for +- 500,-?   Depends on the offered accessories and the country you finally sell it.  The UK is a bit cheaper in second hand sales.  Here in NL a Meade etx125 in working condition is sold in 2 days for €500,-  

Edited June 2, 2021 by Robindonne

[Herrman]

Many thanks Robindonne,

I'll try somewhere under £500, and see what happens!

Best wishes, Herrman

[Shimrod]

4 hours ago, Herrman said:

Many thanks Robindonne,

I'll try somewhere under £500, and see what happens!

Best wishes, Herrman

Ebay is your friend for situations like this - I'd say a sale around £400-450 is possible looking at past sold prices.  Meade ETX125 sold prices You may get a higher price selling on ebay as the ETX is at a price and size that it is likely to attract the 'casual' buyer looking to dabble for the first time.

[carastro]

Quote

A few items I have taken back off sale even after lower the price, as I’d rather keep it then giving it away for silly money.

Ditto.  

I have also had a few silly offers from people trying their luck, which I have declined. 

Carole

Edited June 4, 2021 by carastro

[johninderby]

Deciding on the right price can indeed be tricky sometimes. I try to go with a price that I would be happy to pay myself after looking around for prices that the same gear has sold for recently. 

People will try stupidly low offers sometimes but just be patient and a realistic buyer should come along. Not astro but recently put a bicycle up for sale at what I considered the bargain price of £500.00 and got offers at about £200.00 but within a few days got my full asking price of £500.00. 👍🏻

Edited June 4, 2021 by johninderby

[Louis D]

8 hours ago, carastro said:

Ditto.  

I have also had a few silly offers from people trying their luck, which I have declined. 

Carole

If I see something expensive I want, but can wait on buying, I'll let it sit on CN classifieds for 2 or 3 weeks and make an offer for about 80% of their asking price.  We generally move toward 90% of asking price, but I insist they eat the PP and S&H fees at that price.  I end up saving hundreds of dollars in those cases.

[garryblueboy]

Problem with second hand gear is new price has VAT included of 20% which neither the buyer or retailer has any Controll of so minus that then your left with the purchase cost new  so it’s difficult when selling as most people forget a deduction of 30% off of new is only really 10% saving on retail price at the moment it’s a sellers market as there are limited stocks and used items are fetching more than 12 months ago and some items fetch more used than they cost new depending on how rare they are to find if discontinued  but as others have said a nice ETX 125 depending on condition should achieve a sale around £450 give or take £50 depending on location delivery etc 

Edited June 5, 2021 by garryblueboy

[Louis D]

Hidden VAT is not an issue in the US.  Prices are always listed before sales tax is added.  Keep that in mind when comparing US to UK astro prices.  That might explain why some folks in the UK price their used gear significantly higher than Americans even when exchange rates are accounted for.

Are UK individuals (sellers or buyers) required to collect/remit VAT on used gear sales?  Technically, individual American buyers are supposed to remit the appropriate sales tax on items bought from other individuals or from overseas sellers, but literally no one does this, and there is no enforcement effort anywhere except for private used car sales.  Sales tax in that situation is paid when and where the vehicle is registered.

Gasoline, cigarette, and liquor excise taxes are hidden, though.  I find it interesting that most other countries hide their consumption tax.

[johninderby]

Privately sold used goods arn’t subject to VAT in the UK. This includes private sales of used cars. VAT registered individuals / business however are subject to VAT on the sale of used goods.

[Louis D]

13 minutes ago, johninderby said:

VAT registered individuals / business however are subject to VAT on the sale of used goods.

Same for registered individuals/businesses who collect sales tax on new items as well as used items.

However, ebay and other online peer to peer marketplaces are now collecting sales tax on all sales, foreign and domestic, by registered and unregistered sellers.  Is this happening with VAT as well in the UK?

Edited June 5, 2021 by Louis D

[johninderby]

Not aware of eBay adding tax to private sales in the UK. However think they are for imported / exported items.

Edited June 5, 2021 by johninderby

[Shimrod]

7 hours ago, garryblueboy said:

Problem with second hand gear is new price has VAT included of 20% which neither the buyer or retailer has any Controll of so minus that then your left with the purchase cost new  so it’s difficult when selling as most people forget a deduction of 30% off of new is only really 10% saving on retail price at the moment it’s a sellers market as there are limited stocks and used items are fetching more than 12 months ago and some items fetch more used than they cost new depending on how rare they are to find if discontinued  but as others have said a nice ETX 125 depending on condition should achieve a sale around £450 give or take £50 depending on location delivery etc 

As a consumer you don't have the option of not paying VAT, so surely a discount of 30% is just that.

I think items like optics and manual mounts tend to reach a base price by a certain age and stay there - this is probably the underpin of the '2/3rd rules' and does mean you can buy and sell on the used market and lose very little money. Electronics on the other hand do go out of date and can fail, so electronic based items  will continue to decrease in price as they age as the risk of something failing increases.

[garryblueboy]

3 hours ago, Shimrod said:

As a consumer you don't have the option of not paying VAT, so surely a discount of 30% is just that.

 

If it’s nearly new yes but if it’s not no it’s not