Brand new Esprit 100ED dust/particle issue?

[gilesco]

5 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Yes, that seems worrying knowing that every Espirit scope will need a test.... 🤔

It might be down to:

1. The low number of purchasers who do not request this test, I cemented my reasons on buying from FLO for this service (I personally think, when spending that much on a 120 or 150 it is a no-brainer).

2. FLO's QA process to ensure customer satisfaction.

3. Logistics - sending some to FLO directly, and some to ES Reid, from the UK distributor, overly complicated, easier to get ES Reid to test all.

[omo]

2 hours ago, Rich1980 said:

Update from retailer, they'll refund if I return it to them and reaffirming that I'll "never get a refractor telescope that is completely free of dust particles".

Good you are sending it back, I wonder what owners of other high end scopes reckon to "never get a refractor telescope that is completely free of dust particles" ?

[John]

25 minutes ago, omo said:

Good you are sending it back, I wonder what owners of other high end scopes reckon to "never get a refractor telescope that is completely free of dust particles" ?

I've bought a William Optics Megrez 90 and more recently a Tak FC100-DL new from retailers and they were both in immaculate conditon both optically and cosmetically.

My TMB/LZOS 130 F/9.2 triplet is around a decade old and has had two owners from new. The objective of that is pretty much immaculate as well.

If I had bought the scope that @Rich1980 has been supplied with second hand I would have been pretty miffed if the condition of the objective had not been disclosed to me by the seller and taken account of in the pricing. 

I have bought used scopes with objectives that needed cleaning and then re-aligning but I knew full well what I was getting and it was priced accordingly.

 

[david_taurus83]

3 hours ago, Rich1980 said:

Update from retailer, they'll refund if I return it to them and reaffirming that I'll "never get a refractor telescope that is completely free of dust particles".

I've had 3 new refractors. A William Optics and 2 Altair Astros. All had spotless lenses out of the box.

[F15Rules]

3 hours ago, Rich1980 said:

Update from retailer, they'll refund if I return it to them and reaffirming that I'll "never get a refractor telescope that is completely free of dust particles". 

I do hope that when you have your refund you will name this retailer for the rest of us - so we can avoid them in the future!!

Dave

[Rich1980]

26 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

I do hope that when you have your refund you will name this retailer for the rest of us - so we can avoid them in the future!!

Dave

I will be giving a full opinion of my experience when it is over yes. It will just be my opinion and could be a one off though. Before now too, I have been very supportive of the retailer which makes this experience all the more disappointing to be honest.

[FLO]

4 hours ago, gilesco said:

It might be down to:

1. The low number of purchasers who do not request this test, I cemented my reasons on buying from FLO for this service (I personally think, when spending that much on a 120 or 150 it is a no-brainer).

2. FLO's QA process to ensure customer satisfaction.

3. Logistics - sending some to FLO directly, and some to ES Reid, from the UK distributor, overly complicated, easier to get ES Reid to test all.

Mostly 1 & 3 🙂

Steve 

[Stuart1971]

5 minutes ago, FLO said:

Mostly 1 & 3 🙂

Steve 

So when they are tested, if there is a large amount of dust found to be inside the scope, as in the case of the OP, ( I do realise this one was NOT supplied by you) would Es then clean this out...or is that not part of his job, and is he only there to make sure the optics are aligned and A1...?

Edited September 3, 2020 by Stuart1971

[Ruud]

When I went to pick up my new William Optics ZS 73 I brought a bright flashlight  and +3 reading glasses for a thorough inspection. The lens was beautifully clean.

Fortunately I have two dealers nearby, Robtics at 12 km from home and Ganymedes at 40 km. I always get to see what I buy.

---

I'm happy for you, @Rich1980. It may take a bit longer, but at least you will have a beautiful new telescope!

 

 

[Tim]

Although my 150 Esprit is one of the earliest, (as I had it for a review and couldnt part with it ) the optics were perfect.

I have noticed a "trend" though over the last couple of years for some refractors to have dust between the lenses. One example even arrived with a hair lodged in there! Although it will make no difference to the view, it would be nice to think that there is enough QC process in place to eliminate the issue. The more telescopes that get rejected by the consumer, the more likely some change will occur, but will take some time.

Hope you get sorted in the end Rich1980

Tim

[FLO]

11 hours ago, Stuart1971 said:

So when they are tested, if there is a large amount of dust found to be inside the scope, as in the case of the OP, ( I do realise this one was NOT supplied by you) would Es then clean this out...or is that not part of his job, and is he only there to make sure the optics are aligned and A1...?

The telescope would be rejected and returned to the distributor. 

Es would not normally split lens elements to remove dust. 

Incidentally, Es also checks our William Optics and StellaMira triplets. (He is currently checking StellaMira doublets too because StellaMira is a FLO brand so receives special attention). 

HTH, 

Steve

[FLO]

10 hours ago, Tim said:

Although it will make no difference to the view, it would be nice to think that there is enough QC process in place to eliminate the issue. 

^ 🙂 

[Rich1980]

So in full this was pretty much my experience start to finish-

 

I'd been thinking of either upgrading my scope or upgrading the rest of my setup with a cheaper scope (Evostar 80ed). Then around a fortnight ago I got a message from Rother Valley Optics saying that they "have free stock available" of the Esprit 100ed, so i dropped all other plans and placed an order and went to collect the scope in person. 

 

Upon collecting the scope I was informed at the time that it had been checked over and all was OK, I couldn't wait to get home and open a brand spanking new scope. When I did get it back and opened it up, I was surprised to see a little marking to the flight case first. This didn't worry me too much and carried on unboxing everything. After removing the scope from the plastic cover and paper wrapping it looked fantastic right upto removing the lens cover. In a naturally lit living room around lunchtime it was obvious straight away that there was quite a substantial amount of dust affecting it. After getting my rocket blower from my camera bag I soon realised that it was an internal issue. 

 

The same evening I emailed RVO to mention this and my disappointment of it to be told me "We checked this scope and it’s normal to have these small particles. You will not got one that is particle free. The OTA was checked by us and it passed our standards.". 

 

So I sat on it for a few days looking online to see if it was an issue. I have a Canon 400mm f2.8 lense that is roughly 20 years old and know that dust isn't necessarily an issue when imaging but being brand new and more than £1500 it just didn't feel right. 

 

I then places this thread on here and also a Facebook post on the WYAS page where pretty much every single person suggested that is was unacceptable for a brand new scope. So I contacted RVO again and was told if I return it to themselves they would refund me (which I knew I had the right to) and again that I would "never get a refractor telescope that is completely free of dust particles".

 

So today I returned the scope to RVO in person so I knew it got there OK and my refund could be processed as soon as possible as there is a possibility of maybe getting one from FLO shortly all being well. The took my details and had me drop the box off in the shop and I was told a refund would be processed shortly. Confirmation came through around an hour ago, less than 3 hours after dropping it off. 

 

Never have I received an apology regarding this, although as they checked it and deemed it OK I'm not sure why I might've expected one. This matter has now been dealt with and the refund is processing so onwards and upwards. 

 

This is just my own opinion of this situation and have previously been a big fan of RVO. I'd also like to think this as a one off experience but I would now be reluctant to purchase another expensive piece of kit from them. I know they get a lot of bad press for their online stock levels but calling them when ordering I've always been met with helpful and knowledgeable advice and the ability to collect in person is convenient. 

 

Finally, a thank you to everyone who replied and messaged with advice and opinions on this matter. It really did help a lot confirm my own thoughts that standards should be higher. 

 

Rich. 

 

[gilesco]

I'm surprised it was RVO, something went wrong there, a mistake was made somewhere along the line.

In any case it looks like the issue is resolved and you can draw a line under this. Had you mentioned it was RVO before then I could have told you that you won't have any problem getting a refund if you demand it. I don't consider them a dodgy online retailer.

I don't think your experience would stop me buying equipment from RVO in the future, but if it is in stock at FLO and well priced (they price match anyway) then I'd go for FLO (also they are more local to me - 30 minute drive away).

[John]

Mistakes happen, can be understood and forgiven provided a prompt and positive reaction results from the supplier.

The "blarney" about the condition that customers should expect new scope optics to be in is more of a concern if they really believe that

Hope you get sorted with a scope sometime real soon Rich

[johninderby]

Glad it’s been sorted. 👍🏻

RVO certainly dropped the ball on this one. Not up to their usual high standards of service. Hopefully just a one off as have not had a single problem with anything I have bought from them.

Edited September 4, 2020 by johninderby

[johnturley]

1 hour ago, Rich1980 said:

 

Upon collecting the scope I was informed at the time that it had been checked over and all was OK, 

 

Rother Valley Optics do state on their website that all high end ED Refractors are checked are checked  prior to dispatch, so I expect that they will have checked it. 

They only opened their new showroom shortly before the lockdown in March, and according to their website it is still closed. When I last looked in their showroom just before lockdown, they had several Esprits on display, although I can't remember whether this included an Esprit 100. I wonder whether your scope could have been on display there for the last 6 months, which could explain the presence of the dust.

With it being local to me, I have bought several items including 2 telescopes from them, which I also picked up in person, and generally been satisfied, although when I bought my Esprit 150 I went to FLO as I particularly wanted the Es Reid  (whom I know personally) optical bench test., so surprised that they have given poor service in this instance.

John 

Edited September 4, 2020 by johnturley

[Rich1980]

New scope arrived from @FLO and in great condition as in pic. Can't wait for the skies to clear and get out with it.

Many thanks to Steve and everyone else at FLO for helping out 👍 

[johninderby]

Now that’s what I expect to see with a new scope. 👍🏻

 

Send a  pic to RVO ? 😁

Edited September 12, 2020 by johninderby

[John]

So much for "We checked this scope and it’s normal to have these small particles. You will not got one that is particle free......." 

Glad you have now got what you deserve

[Ruud]

That's wonderful and it came so fast too! Now you have the telescope you deserve. Enjoy the instrument Chis, it's a beauty!