Go-to guilt?

[Swithin StCleeve]

As a seasoned dob-wielding star-hopper and map-reader, last night I used a go-to mount for the first time. An 8" S/C that belongs to our local society, really nice piece of kit. After a faff of setting up (I had the scope upside down, I didn't even know there was an upside down on telescopes!), I got it aligned and with a break in the clouds by Hercules, typed in M13. It whizzed into motion and there it was! I must say, it was like magic. 
Since the early 90's I've kept a list of Messier objects I've found by star-hopping. I've about twenty yet to find, a lot of then galaxies in Virgo, which I find hard to navigate. With this new go-to, I could mop them up and tick them off in one night. Somehow, it seems wrong. It seems too easy. 
I may have go-to guilt.
Has anyone else made the transition from star-hopping to go-to?

Edited September 7, 2019 by Swithin StCleeve
typo

[Pete Presland]

I have done both and still do both, nothing to feel guilty about. I thoroughly enjoy the challenge of star hoping, but also enjoy observing objects. When time/clear skies are limited for astronomers, sometimes a quick "computer aided slew" to an object is extremely welcome 🙂 

Don't feel guilty about anything in astronomy, just enjoy the experience my friend.  

Edited September 7, 2019 by Pete Presland

[Swithin StCleeve]

Of course, you're right, and I'm being a little tongue-in-cheek, but I must admit, the 'thrill' of seeing a new object will be slightly lessened by the fact I haven't found it for myself.
But, as an astro friend told me, in defence of go-to mounts, "I want to see as much as I can in one night, we don't get that many clear skies, and I'm not going to live forever!" 

[bottletopburly]

Moved to the dark side young padawan  I see ,tut tut 😂 why waste  time star hopping 👍🙂

[JamesF]

It's a hobby.  You do what makes you happy and that's all you need to worry about.

I enjoy star-hopping and I think it's a great way to learn the night sky, but sometimes I just want the target now, and on those occasions GOTO and plate-solving are the business.

James

[Gfamily]

I like the idea of star hoping; hoping it's clear, hoping the alignment is good, hoping hoping hoping. 

[bingevader]

On an 8" or above, I think I could probably see the advantage of a goto.

Completely academic as I'll never be able to afford one!

However, on my etx90, I quickly got fed up of the faff!

As an intro to the hobby, the goto was a great way to learn the night sky.

After a while though, I could find the night's favourites quicker than the goto.

The fainter, more distant objects were beyond the 'scopes capabilities.

So as a means of finding those faint fuzzies that evade my star hopping skills, it's appealing though unattainable.

I'll keep hopping and hoping!

[domstar]

Do what you enjoy, but just for the Virgo galaxies, please hop from galaxy to galaxy (no goto). It's the biggest joy of stargazing for me. It took a bit of research, bortle 4 skies and a 4 inch frac. It's the main reason I look forward to spring. They are pretty much just smudges in my eyepiece but moving from one to another is magic.

Now, the Blue Snowball. A goto would suit me down to the ground. 

[Knighty2112]

I had 2 goto systems. One for alt az for quick set ups, and an eq mount. Sold them on in haste earlier this year, and now regret it. Whilst again using a mount manually gives you great pleasure when you eventually find the target your after, I do miss the beauty of a quick find especially when sky conditions prove tricky. Saving up for a dual az/eq goto mount for next year at some point. 

[Woking]

Same here, made the move from years of manual visual just a few months ago. The main push was motorised tracking to simplify high mag observing and keeping objects aligned when away from the scope, changing EPs etc 

The extra GOTO functionality has been a revelation even though I was happy enough using my A3 star maps and basic SkySafari app.

I'm now observing 2 to 3 times more objects in a session under my suburban light polluted skies. This was kind of expected but what I hadn't realised was the GOTO allowed me to view objects I had given up on trying to find at home. Those difficult to find objects especially which need averted vision.

I'm now a convert but yes I do feel a little guilt setting up for a session  when seeing and not using my homemade star maps which have served me so well over the years. Technological progress is now SkySafari Pro on my smartphone controlling my GOTO.

[Swithin StCleeve]

18 minutes ago, Woking said:

…...what I hadn't realised was the GOTO allowed me to view objects I had given up on trying to find at home. Those difficult to find objects especially which need averted vision.

This is a very good point. If you're confident your go-to is aligned correctly, you'll be much more inclined to spend time looking at that specific field of view. Because you know the object is there. When you star-hop, you'd be more inclined to look at the same field of view and think 'no, it's not there. I must be in the wrong place'. Interesting.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Swithin StCleeve

[Woking]

19 minutes ago, Swithin StCleeve said:

This is a very good point. If you're confident your go-to is aligned correctly, you'll be much more inclined to spend time looking at that specific field of view. Because you know the object is there. When you star-hop, you'd be more inclined to look at the same field of view and think 'no, it's not there. I must be in the wrong place'. Interesting.

That's the understated benefit I found. At an even more basic level I was even more confident that the small smudge in the FOV was what I was looking for and could then spend more time on it without having to constantly adjust the az and checking the star map and SkySafari.

Despite years of enjoying manual visual it's still a time consuming skill to find tricky objects when the star map,, RDF, finderscope, and EP are flipped in different perspectives under LP skies. Hats off to those expert star hoppers who have not only mastered this but enjoy the thrill of the chase too.

[Cosmic Geoff]

I don't think the professional astronomers feel guilty about using the professional equivalent of GoTo. 😁

[JamesF]

13 minutes ago, Woking said:

Hats off to those expert star hoppers who have not only mastered this but enjoy the thrill of the chase too.

I'm certainly no expert, but I do enjoy the "thrill of the chase" :)

James

[DaveS]

As a committed Imager I wouldn't use anything else. Time's too precious to waste faffing around trying to find a target that might not even be visible to the naked eye. I know, I've been there in my early days scrabbling around on my hands and knees, squinting at a RDF and wondering where's the [Lots of removed words] target?

[Woking]

I kept finding the thrill of the chase diminishing the later it got at night and purposely leaving those tricky objects till last! 1am frustration knowing the alarm clock is going off in not many hours.

GOTO eliminates frustration and enables a proper night's sleep

Edited September 7, 2019 by Woking
Correction GOTO may eliminate star hopping frustration but maybe not the extra setup steps compared to plonking a scope on a manual AZ

[jetstream]

After learning the night sky pretty well I purchased an AZ EQ6 for the 120mm and now a Sky Commander "push to" DSC for the 24". I must say that the tracking for planetary/lunar is a nice benefit and the Sky Commander finds very difficult, faint galaxies (& others) with amazing accuracy. There is no way I could even re-find some of this stuff after "bumping" the dob inadvertently without it. I can get back on objects with a .18 deg TFOV... and easily with the 12.5mm UWA at  .5 deg TFOV. This allows for so much more observing time which really helps out.

I have no regret, remorse, guilt or any other negative emotion over using Go To lol!- and I also love the "chase of the hunt" finding things manually. Both my GoTo scopes work very well.

[Swithin StCleeve]

I will say this though - if someone had given me a go-to scope when I was getting into the hobby, I don't think I'd have become as involved. I spent hours reading books and sky maps and trying to find stuff, and it was a bit of a journey of discovery which led to an understanding of the universe that I'm still finding out about. If I'd have had a go-to when I was a teenager, instead of a manual mount, I honestly think my interest might have dried up.
Though I expect not many teenagers get given a go-to as their first scope anyway.

[Stu]

I do both and enjoy both equally depending on the circumstances and what I'm observing. If I'm at home, then it is mainly planetary or lunar, so I don't need goto, but an EQ mount or platform which tracks is very useful. For DSOs at home or local sites then I do use EQ Goto mounts because star hopping when you can see few stars is not something I enjoy particularly. I'm also hopeless at star hopping with an EQ mount!

At dark sites then I mainly use my scopes on alt-az mounts or a dob and do enjoy star hopping then. I can find a fair range of objects from memory, or then use Skysafari for anything else. I actually enjoy spending time looking at the objects, so for me it is not a case of 'bagging' and moving on. I want to find whatever it is then observe it for a while.

[Stu]

9 minutes ago, Swithin StCleeve said:

I will say this though - if someone had given me a go-to scope when I was getting into the hobby, I don't think I'd have become as involved. I spent hours reading books and sky maps and trying to find stuff, and it was a bit of a journey of discovery which led to an understanding of the universe that I'm still finding out about. If I'd have had a go-to when I was a teenager, instead of a manual mount, I honestly think my interest might have dried up.
Though I expect not many teenagers get given a go-to as their first scope anyway.

I started off with a manual EQ mount, and added tracking to it later so had to find everything myself. Joining SGL was the best thing I ever did in terms of expanding the range of objects I observe.

I tend to view Goto in the same way as SatNav. I think SatNav is great, but I also have a good knowledge of geography so generally know where I am and where I am going, the SatNav just helps out. I don't like driving blind just relying on it, much the same as I like to know where I am looking in the sky, with Goto just helping me along.

[david_taurus83]

I more or less started the hobby with a goto mount. Since then, I have bought an AZ4 just so I can do it manually!!!😁

 

Much more fun! Spent half an hour one evening looking for M1. Trying to star hop by using Sky Safari as a guide. Was ecstatic when I found it.

[cotterless45]

I think that Stu put it perfectly. I usually tell folk that GOTO is like using Satnav compared to a map. You need to know where you're going and what's there . I think that you should know the skies before going GOTO.

I spent a lot of nights with the PSA and a red torch , being most amazed at the way the sky moved and the seasonal changes. No better way to learn the sky.

With the apparent decline in our weather there seems to be less and less time to observe. It's easy enough to find Messier's and targets by star hopping , but you need a bit of time, not always available.

In addition star hopping means having enough visible stars hop from. This is a great joy under dark skies, but often impossible from the edge of town.

GOTO has it's own challenges, some nights the simplicity of manual chart reading and easy setting up greatly appeals. Any way which we can enjoy the skies is just awe inspiring , under 

clear skies,

Nick.

[Hallingskies]

Star hopping is great when you have dark skies.  It was the only way to go “back in the old days” and the thrill of the chase was half the fun.  As I have grown older though, both the sky quality and my eyesight has deteriorated.  Often  I simply cannot be sure that what I am looking at is actually there.  Objects like M1 or even M97 used to leap out of the eyepiece at me: now I can seldom pick them out from the background murk.  I use go to now, and feel no more “guilt” about that than I would about using e-mail rather than writing a letter and posting it.