8" reflector vs small APO refractor

[Ardoamros]

Greetings stargazers,

 I'm considering buying a new telescope (my first telescope) for astrophotography, and some visual astronomy. 

 But I can't decide which type should I get. I mainly want to photograph deep sky objects. After testing some variations in Stellarium I am worried that some deep sky objects won't fit into the aperture of an 8" reflector.

I'm wondering which type should I get. And also I'm worried that I won't be able to photograph anything with a small refractor because I live near a city. 

I am also open to any suggestions for a beginner astrophotography telescope. (around 800$ would be perfect)

Thank you:)

I apologise if I made any writing mistakes.

Edit: I'm considering buying a Bresser Messier 203/800 or a William Optics Zenithstar 61 but I'm still open to any suggestions.

 

 

 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

For most DSO imaging a short frac is better. I live in the suburbs of a city, and with an APM 80mm F/6 with Tele-Vue 0.8x reducer and modified Canon EOS 550D I could get things like this:

after a total of 7 h of exposure time in fairly short subs (still not enough )

[Chris]

Aperture is only important for visual....well apart from the resolution large aperture also gives you for planetary imaging.

For deep sky imaging a small apochromatic refractor will be much easier to use when learning the astrophotography ropes. The aperture isn't important here because the camera sensor is a lot more sensitive the the human eye, and you leave the sensor open to collect the star light and build up a picture over time. The key is to have a mount accurate enough to track with the stars whilst this light is collected, and this is easier to achieve with a short focal length scope like the WO61. 

if you want to do a spot of visual as well you can combine a bit of aperture with short focal length by getting something like the skywatcher 130pds, this only costs about £170 and is a great little imager. Or maybe a slightly larger refractor such as the Skywatcher ED80, there you get the ease of use of a refractor but with a bit more light grasp for visual.  

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

BTW, a fast telephoto lens is also great for AP

[RobertI]

14 minutes ago, Lockie said:

if you want to do a spot of visual as well you can combine a bit of aperture with short focal length by getting something like the skywatcher 130pds, this only costs about £170 and is a great little imager.

I just suggested the same scope to another new member who wanted to do visual and imaging! Great minds.....

 

[Ardoamros]

Should I also get a light pollution filter?

A field flattener?

Edit: I'm considering buying a Bresser EXOS-2 Go-To Mount.

[Chris]

34 minutes ago, RobertI said:

I just suggested the same scope to another new member who wanted to do visual and imaging! Great minds.....

 

Haha, we know it makes sense  

[Chris]

19 minutes ago, Ardoamros said:

Should I also get a light pollution filter?

A field flattener?

Edit: I'm considering buying a Bresser EXOS-2 Go-To Mount.

Probably the best thing to start with is to buy this book and read it cover to cover at least once:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/all-books-software/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

This is old stock advice for this forum, lots of us here have passed this right of passage and it was the right advice given to us at the time. Me on the other hand bought all the wrong kit, learned through reading threads and trial and error, then bought the book a few years later which confirmed to me that  should have bought the book in the first place ??

[Ardoamros]

36 minutes ago, Lockie said:

Probably the best thing to start with is to buy this book and read it cover to cover at least once:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/all-books-software/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

This is old stock advice for this forum, lots of us here have passed this right of passage and it was the right advice given to us at the time. Me on the other hand bought all the wrong kit, learned through reading threads and trial and error, then bought the book a few years later which confirmed to me that  should have bought the book in the first place ??

is there an online version for that book?

[cletrac1922]

First of all welcome from land down under

Suggest that you rock up to an astronomy club in your area

Members there only too happy to show you their set-up, and you get an opportunity to view through different scopes

Also astronomy clubs run workshops on AP

John

[Tim]

2 hours ago, Ardoamros said:

is there an online version for that book?

I wonder if @steppenwolf could do you a PDF in exchange for the necessary?

[steppenwolf]

On 22/07/2018 at 22:41, Ardoamros said:

Is there an online version for that book?

No there is no online version and currently no plan to produce one ?

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

On 22/07/2018 at 21:40, Ardoamros said:

Should I also get a light pollution filter?

A field flattener?

Edit: I'm considering buying a Bresser EXOS-2 Go-To Mount.

For your situation I would aim for a Heq5 mount or better if budget can stretch. Then a small apo like a wo61 or the 130pds reflector. You will find that rhe mount will give you more flexibility in the future. I personally wouldn't get a EXOS. Make it easier for yourself  

Yes you will need a field flattener for astrophotography and light pollution. Astronomik CLS are good all rounders. 

[Ardoamros]

On 24/07/2018 at 16:35, Gerry Casa Christiana said:

For your situation I would aim for a Heq5 mount or better if budget can stretch. Then a small apo like a wo61 or the 130pds reflector. You will find that rhe mount will give you more flexibility in the future. I personally wouldn't get a EXOS. Make it easier for yourself  

Yes you will need a field flattener for astrophotography and light pollution. Astronomik CLS are good all rounders. 

I'm buying a field flattener and a 2" CLS filter. But sadly my budget is not stretchy enough for a HEQ-5 mount. 

Edit: That mount is my entire budget. Wow.

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

9 hours ago, Ardoamros said:

I'm buying a field flattener and a 2" CLS filter. But sadly my budget is not stretchy enough for a HEQ-5 mount. 

Edit: That mount is my entire budget. Wow.

What about second hand? Lots out there 

[Joves]

On 23/07/2018 at 04:51, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

For most DSO imaging a short frac is better. I live in the suburbs of a city, and with an APM 80mm F/6 with Tele-Vue 0.8x reducer and modified Canon EOS 550D I could get things like this:

after a total of 7 h of exposure time in fairly short subs (still not enough )

This is a stunning rendition of M42, Michael. Well done!

[Joves]

On 24/07/2018 at 22:36, steppenwolf said:

No there is no online version and currently no plan to produce one ?

Not to hijack this thread, but Steve, is there a way of ordering both of your books in the one order please (delivery to Australia)? 

Cheers,

Aaron

[Mark Raishbrook]

On 24/07/2018 at 13:36, steppenwolf said:

No there is no online version and currently no plan to produce one ?

Good to hear! I just ordered the book from FLO for 23 euros. Looking forward to learning from it.

I'm a subtitling software developer and my program was cracked nine years ago, so I applaud your resolve!

[steppenwolf]

On 28/07/2018 at 11:35, Joves said:

Not to hijack this thread, but Steve, is there a way of ordering both of your books in the one order please (delivery to Australia)? 

Cheers,

Aaron

@JovesHi Aaron,

Sorry, I have only just seen this question!!  I have to send the books as two packets (Large Letter as far as the Post Office is concerned) to get adequate insurance from the Post Office, I'm afraid so you would need to order both books and pay the carriage charge. I *could* send these in one parcel as a 'small parcel' but I would have to use a more expensive postal service to get adequate insurance which would negate any saving!

[tomato]

Just a comment on the mount. In my opinion, for astrophotography, your biggest single investment should be on this item of equipment. You can take good astro images with a variety of optics and cameras, but for DSOs, you do need to track reliably and reasonably accurately.

I'm sure some folks will disagree with this view and the more recent camera technology is perhaps making good tracking lees important, but you will get frustrated with a wibbly wobbly mount.

[Obi Wan Ken00bi]

I wholeheartedly agree with the above about the mount. Forget about the field flattener and CLS filter for now and just get a strong mount! I’ve been where you are and cheaped out on the mount (went for a Celestron CG5) and had to sell that in order to get a EQ6 R Pro to support my scope. Just wait until there is an heq5 or eq6 second hand and you will thank us later. You can do with a CG5 or eq5 with a small refractor but once you start adding guiding equipment (and other accessories) and maybe a big Newton or SCG later on in life you’ll need to switch again).

save up, get a heq5. The scope doesn’t matter (an ED80 or WO61 are great to start).

[Ardoamros]

5 hours ago, Obi Wan Ken00bi said:

I wholeheartedly agree with the above about the mount. Forget about the field flattener and CLS filter for now and just get a strong mount! I’ve been where you are and cheaped out on the mount (went for a Celestron CG5) and had to sell that in order to get a EQ6 R Pro to support my scope. Just wait until there is an heq5 or eq6 second hand and you will thank us later. You can do with a CG5 or eq5 with a small refractor but once you start adding guiding equipment (and other accessories) and maybe a big Newton or SCG later on in life you’ll need to switch again).

save up, get a heq5. The scope doesn’t matter (an ED80 or WO61 are great to start).

I've been searching for a heq5 mount for a while now. Didn't find any second-hand ones so far. It'll be great if you can send me the link of the website that sells that mount second hand, if you know any.

Thanks for your help everyone.

[Joves]

On 03/08/2018 at 09:20, steppenwolf said:

@JovesHi Aaron,

Sorry, I have only just seen this question!!  I have to send the books as two packets (Large Letter as far as the Post Office is concerned) to get adequate insurance from the Post Office, I'm afraid so you would need to order both books and pay the carriage charge. I *could* send these in one parcel as a 'small parcel' but I would have to use a more expensive postal service to get adequate insurance which would negate any saving!

Thanks Steve, makes sense. I’ll order them both separately on your site.

[Obi Wan Ken00bi]

On 03/08/2018 at 20:51, Ardoamros said:

I've been searching for a heq5 mount for a while now. Didn't find any second-hand ones so far. It'll be great if you can send me the link of the website that sells that mount second hand, if you know any.

Thanks for your help everyone.

I’m sure you’ve tried http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/

personally I’m from Holland so I use www.te-les-koop.nl 

also try this forums classifieds

I hope we’re not putting you off the hobby, but deep sky astrophotography requires serious kit and we are hoping to help you spend your money wisely. It’s either saving up for a new heq5, waiting for a second hand or even start with a Skywatcher Star adventurer or something and go for DLSR wide field if you already have the camera and lens. Then you might as well start with a second hand cg5/ eq5 goto or equivalent if you find a good deal and a low weight refractor (like the much used ed80 or a 70mm even) and accept that you’ll have to upgrade the mount at one point in your Astro career .