Please help, must be doing something wrong

[Tango72]

I spent a lot of time shopping telescopes and settled on the Meade 8" LX-90 ACF. I ordered the Celestron 2" eyepiece kit. Tonight, I finally had a bit of a break in the clouds and I was able to finally try to put it to use. With the 26mm eyepiece and the Barlow 2x Jupiter was just a fuzzy tiny little ball in the eyepiece. I would say it was about 1mm (maybe) in diameter. I do photography do I have experience with focusing optics. I was hoping it would be bigger and that I would be able to see the color bands. But, never could get the focus to clear up, and even if it was in focus, it was so small I am not sure you could identify the bands. I bought all this stuff to further my kids interest in space, but this would not captivate their interest as couldn't really see anything. In fact I think I could see better through the scope rather than the telescope. What have I done wrong? Is it the telescope, or just what I can expect? Thank you, Greg

[Cornelius Varley]

Hello and welcome to SGL. At 156x magnification Jupiter will still be quite small in the eyepiece . Atmospheric conditions also play a part in view. One minute the planet can look like a white blob and then for a few seconds the bands become visible. Your telescope is capable of higher magnifications so you could try a shorter focal length eyepiece to increase magnification. This field of view calculator http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fov.htm should give you an impression of how big Jupiter will be at various mags. Also. Give the telescope plenty of time to cool down.

[alan potts]

Tango,

Welcome to the site of SGL. It sounds to me as if you have not allowed your scope to cool down, this can take over an hour and if it goes from a hot house to a cold outside maybe 2 hours. The scope will give good planetary views especially of Jupiter and you will see bands and the great red spot. The 26mm with a barlow is not that much magnifcation, you can work this out by deviding the focal length (F/L) of the eyepiece into the F/L of the scope which is 2032mm, so the power you have with the 26mm is X78, with barlow X2 so twice this. This power should give you a nice clean and sharp image of the planet though smallish and you should see bands and polar areas well.

The atmosphere can affect things as well but this will just limit you to how much power you can use, this is called 'seeing', in any event you should be OK at 26mm with barlow.

hope this helps.

Alan. 

[bingevader]

You've a very smart set up, it shouldn't be anything to do with that.

Jupiter will never be huge, but I have an 8" 'scope and my views of it, including plenty of detail, are fantastic.

Putting aside the specific problems that might arise with your 'scope of which I have no experience, there maybe several other difficulties in viewing Jupiter that may arise.

You've a big sealed unit that will need plenty of time to cool down, trying to observe before then will result in unclear views, especially as you increase the magnification.

Your 'scope will also suffer from dew building up on the front lens on cold, damp nights, which will also affect the views.

But the main thing to consider will be the seeing conditions.

It might look clear out, but if the seeing isn't steady, or your object is low in the sky, close to the horizon, or above a local heat source, like the roof of your house, then achieving a clear view, especially at higher magnifications, might be problematic.

A good stretch of last winter was like that for me here, when observing Jupiter.

No matter which eyepiece I tried, I'd just end up with a fuzzy blob.

Persevere, you will get there.

Also, I should type faster.

[Owmuchonomy]

Hi. Are you confident that it was Jupiter you were lined up on? For example, did you see smaller bright dots in a line either side of the object (the moons)?

[nightfisher]

If Jupiter looked to be aprox 1mm diameter in a scope with 2032 focal length............then you were not looking at Jupiter but an out of focus star, my 1000mm scope will show Jupiter as a disk of about 4mm with a 25mm eyepiece so yours should have been 4 times the size with your eyepiece and barlow

[ollypenrice]

If Jupiter looked to be aprox 1mm diameter in a scope with 2032 focal length............then you were not looking at Jupiter but an out of focus star, my 1000mm scope will show Jupiter as a disk of about 4mm with a 25mm eyepiece so yours should have been 4 times the size with your eyepiece and barlow

This was my first thought as well. I doubt that Tango's scope was pointing at Jupiter, though the comments above are also perfectly valid when it comes to observing planets.

Olly

[happy-kat]

This is a good read :-)

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/page-1

[Tango72]

I am pretty sure I was looking at Jupiter. The finder "pointed" at it. I could tell that it had a different color than stars. However, I did not allow time for it to cool down and it was one the horizon, so I was looking over rooftops at it, not skimming the rooftops, but it was close to the house roofs in the area. So, like a 10 mm eyepiece would be good, or should I go even less? The cool down was probably a big part of it, because I took it outside, aligned it and started looking to Jupiter. There is a slight chance the Jupiter was still below the horizon that I could see, but the object I saw was definitely the brightest object close to where the telescope thought it was. What about collmination, could that be an issue? I want to be able to see some of the moons on Jupiter, but with what I saw I don't know how that would be possible. Also, if it is windy, does that effect atmospheric conditions for viewing.

[nightfisher]

Ok, is the finder aligned to the scope, it would be easy to have the finder out of line to the scope, and think you are looking at an object but not, dont go messing with collimation if it does not need it

[Tango72]

Yes, the finder is aligned, well pretty close. The auto finder, is a little rough, but I am only doing easy align, and I have not trained the drive yet.

[John]

Viewing Jupiter when it is close to the horizon, through the haze of heat rising from houses and through an un-cooled schmidt-cassegrain will add up to very poor views. You should still see a small slightly flattened disk and up to 4 moons spread out either side of it. The cloudbelts and other surface details could well be be masked by the unsteady viewing that these circumstances deliver. If you wait until the planet is much higher in the sky, away from rooftops and allow your scope 40-60 minutes to cooldown hopefully you will see what Jupiter has to offer a bit more clearly. Even under much more favourable conditions you will need to study the planet carefully and for some time to pick out more than the main equatorial belts. The Great Red Spot should be seen in your scope when it is on "our" side of the planet. It's not as obvious as it's fame would have you believe though so patience is needed to see that feature as well !

[AndyWB]

I regularly view Jupiter at x130, and it's a fair bit bigger than 1mm (even when I can't see much detail).

Check for the 4 moons in a line around it. They appear like stars about 1mm in size to me. If there aren't 4 bright moons, then it isn't Jupiter. I did get confused between Jupiter and Aldebaran a while back… (Beer was involved).

Has the finder been correctly aligned with the scope itself? It could be that the finder is pointing at it - but the scope is somewhere else. 

[Stu]

I would certainly agree with all comments above, but mostly that I do not think you were lined up on Jupiter. Quite possibly the finder was pointing at it but even a small error in alignment could put you off to one side, particularly with the small field of view you would have been using (approx 0.36 degrees)

My main reason for doubt though is that I can easily see the moons around jupiter, and a small disk using 15x50 binoculars. If focussed then even without seeing bands in the disk you would definitely have been able to see the moons with x154.

I would check your finder alignment and Goto alignment before anything else.

Stu

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tango72]

Update. I waited until Jupiter was high in the sky, the scope has set outside for a couple of hours and it was a clear night (my homemade dew shield applied, learned that lesson the hard way of having a frosted up scope), while Jupiter was far more visible with four of its moons, the stripes are still difficult to discern and identifying a Red Spot would be impossible. I tried the 32 and 26 mm with and without a Barlow x2. I also tried a 4.5mm and that was a large fuzzy brown ball. Orion isn't too bad, but Andromeda was a very faint cloud, looked more like star not in focus. I was concerned that it wasn't focused on Andromeda so I did a spiral search a didn't see anything else in the area that was more consistent with the photos and how the "field of view calculator" showed how it should look. Should I be able to see spirals, or should it just look like cloudy star?

[MoonManiac]

Tiny, yes. But as others have said if the weather conditions are good you should be able to see the bands. I have seen them even with my 25mm eyepiece and a small telescope on good days (unfortunately good days are rare where I am at the moment, but last year I was really impressed sometimes).

[barkis]

Welcome to SGL.

There is also the telescopes collimation to consider.

One might expect a new instrument to be perfect, but it is not always the case.

In the case of your SCT, the primary mirror has no adjustments at all, other than for  

back and forth focusing. The secondary mirror can sometimes shift, and thereby 

render the optical efficiency below it's best. Good collimation is essential for 

an SCT. Planetary detail can be badly affected otherwise.

There are three equispaced adjustment screws to effect the secondary alignment.

They used to be Allen Socket headed screws,, which are awkward to adjust.

There are others available to replace them, called Bobs Knobs, which make the job easier.

These screws require the most minimum of movement to make corrections, so don't be too ambitious

when making adjustments. Very small is best.

Read up about collimating your type of telescope first, 

Knowing what you are doing is essential.

Don't worry, the telescope will deliver the views you want to see,

it's just that so many things are required to be right first.

Atmospheric conditions. adequate scope cool down time, 

perfect collimation.

Ron.

[Tango72]

I am trading it in for an LX200 8". Meade had me do a reset and I noticed that the setup menu came on, which it didn't when I first turned it on. So, I think it had been returned before. AnywY, I think the LX200 will be a better quality scope.

Also, I bought a 4.5mm HD 5000 eyepiece, is this too much magnification for my scope?

[Peter Drew]

A 4.5mm eyepiece will provide over 400X magnification, this would be useable on the Moon or double stars under very rare nights of excellent seeing. Highest general magnification for average seeing is around 250X regardless of the telescope size or type. 

[jefrs]

Coming from photography too, it can seem counter intuitive that my 25mm eyepiece is the wide angle and a 9mm is the telephoto.

Divide focal.length of scope by focal.length of eyepiece to get magnification factor :  read the sticky on eyepieces for advice :-)

Mine by example  650/25 = 26X and 650/9 = 72X

But our 130SLT telescope is 130mm therefore 650/130 = f/5 which is probably the limiting maximum for eyepiece here i.e. 650/5 = 130X

Limiting factor at the other end is pupil dilation, we're both getting on (pupil <5mm) so the 25mm is probably as wide-field as we want.

I am finding the telescope is great for observation but trying to fit a camera to the eyepiece is a bit of a nightmare: there are better solutions; long-long reflex lenses; piggy-back tracking or camera's own eq mount.

[Tango72]

so my telescope is f10, so how did you determine the limiting factor of the magnification of the telescope? So, I should drink beer when i look through the telescope to get my pupils supper dilated.  Like last night, it was super clear, but i could see light waves, or the focus of the object coming slightly in and out of focus through the telescope.  is that atmospheric disturbance?  i have shot high powered rifles through scopes, and under high magification at long distances you can see the heat of the barrel and the thermals, that is what i kind of looked like last night, but it was cold.  what weather charts can i reference to look for stable atmoshperes?

[barkis]

An explanation here might help you.

Ron.

http://www.rocketmime.com/astronomy/Telescope/ResolvingPower.html

[alfingido]

The LX200 has the same optics as the LX90, the difference is that the telescope has a mirror lock ( useful for astro photography) manual ra and dec adjustments and a much heavier base with better drives. You will find it is far heavier than your LX90 and visually it will be exactly the same.

Re your comments about what you can see. I live in a very dark area with minimal light or air pollution. Jupiter is easily seen when a little higher in the sky but will not look like a photo. It takes a while to get your eyes adjusted to it then you will start to see some detail, over magnifying will render the whole thing into a disappointing blob. Andromeda will look like a fuzzy elongated blob, higher magnification on nights with very good seeing will allow you to see more detail, but again, you need patience.

The best thing to upgrade on your scope is the diagonal. Try and get a 2" Dielectric, it will make a fair bit of difference in what you see and allow you to use 2" eyepieces, especially useful for good views in lower magnification eyepieces.

I looked at Jupiter on 29th for the first time in a while. Seeing was good, it was very clear and cold. The best magnified views I got were in an 18mm eyepiece, the best for seeing Jupiter as a sharp disc with clear bands and four pinpoint moons were my 25mm and 32mm. Sometimes the most impressive views are with a lower magnification. Andromeda in a 40 mm wide eyepiece is stunning.

Allan

Forgot to say, I have an LX90 ACF

[alfingido]

Update. I waited until Jupiter was high in the sky, the scope has set outside for a couple of hours and it was a clear night (my homemade dew shield applied, learned that lesson the hard way of having a frosted up scope), while Jupiter was far more visible with four of its moons, the stripes are still difficult to discern and identifying a Red Spot would be impossible. I tried the 32 and 26 mm with and without a Barlow x2. I also tried a 4.5mm and that was a large fuzzy brown ball. Orion isn't too bad, but Andromeda was a very faint cloud, looked more like star not in focus. I was concerned that it wasn't focused on Andromeda so I did a spiral search a didn't see anything else in the area that was more consistent with the photos and how the "field of view calculator" showed how it should look. Should I be able to see spirals, or should it just look like cloudy star?

I just looked at the Field of view calculator and I must say, the images it shows are very optimistic for viewing through a telescope.

Foe example, Andromeda looks amazing in the calculator, in real life, it will look like a fuzzy blob most of the time. The Ring Nebula looks amazing too, but in reality ( for me anyway through an 8" LX90 and a 10" LX200) it looks like a faint smoke ring, sometimes you can see something in the centre, but it is best seen with averted vision. On nights with excellent seeing, it looks like a more solid smoke ring with something in the centre. 

In my experience, you aren't going to see those colours visually unless you start using filters, something I have never done

Allan

[faulksy]

also consider, were the optics fogged up. the front plate will fog up real quick and give you blurred images, also the eyepieces especialy with the heat of your eyes and sometimes breathing on them