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Best 4" achromatic refractor

nightfisher

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John

John

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I've owned the TAL and the Vixen and thought them very close in optical performance, the Vixen better mechanically. I've not owned or used the Lyra but the reports from owners are good. At F/11 it ought to show a little less CA than the other two which are F/9.8 and F/10 respectively and it's lenses are reputedly of good quality. So I guess the Lyra could just pip the other two :smiley:

PS: I've stuck with commenting on the 3 you listed - there are others of course, as Odd Thomas points out.

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Marki

Marki

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Interesting question - heard a lot about all of them. I really love my TAL100rs, so the others will have to really go some to improve on that scope. Personally, I'd like a bit more focal length, so maybe the Skylight f13 might do...quite a hefty bit more expensive than the Lyra and TAL (no idea what the Vixen costs...).

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nightfisher

nightfisher

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I've owned the TAL and the Vixen and thought them very close in performance. I've not owned or used the Lyra but the reports from owners are good. At F/11 it ought to show a little less CA than the other two which are F/9.8 and F/10 respectively and it's lenses are reputedly of good quality. So I guess the Lyra could just pip the other two :smiley:

It would appear that the lyra is optically best, BUT would it out perform the Tal if that was also f11?

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John

John

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It would appear that the lyra is optically best, BUT would it out perform the Tal if that was also f11?

How are we ever going to find out ?

You have to take them on the basis of the specs actually available surely - not some hypothetical ones, however desireable !

On the used market, the Vixen's can be picked up for around £200 for an OTA by the way. The TAL's can be had for as little as £125 and the Lyra's seem to command around £280-ish.

The TAL has the best performance per £ ratio, no doubt about it.

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nightfisher

nightfisher

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How are we ever going to find out ?

You have to take them on the basis of the specs actually available surely - not some hypothetical ones, however desireable !

On the used market, the Vixen's can be picked up for around £200 for an OTA by the way. The TAL's can be had for as little as £125 and the Lyra's seem to command around £280-ish.

The TAL has the best performance per £ ratio, no doubt about it.

Absolutely right John, the Tal does offer best value for its size/price, i know at PSP2011 i compared the tal with the vixen that mjr tom brought, and we struggled to see a difference between the 2 scopes

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Damo636

Damo636

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I have owned the Tal and the Lyra and I would say optically, although close, the Lyra is slightly ahead. Build quality is a different story though. Here the Lyra absolutely spanks the Tal. There is no doubt the Tal is excellent value but if I were to buy one today it would without doubt be the Lyra. Well worth the extra imho :-)

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Marki

Marki

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I Build quality is a different story though. Here the Lyra absolutely spanks the Tal.

My Tal is so well built it wouldn't even notice a spanking ;-). Gonna need at least a leathering for it to even sit up and notice :cool:. Oh - you weren't talking about robustness.... :).

Wondering if anyone at PSP will have a Lyra - quite keen to have a peer through one of those, I;ve heard so much good stuff about them.

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Marki

Marki

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So many lovely 4" fracs, so little clear sky to use them under, and so little chance of persuading Mrs Marki that a boy really does need more than one 100mm scope :). I see what you mean re the exchange rate though - that TS looks an absolute bargain!

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johninderby

johninderby

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Having worked my way through first a TAL 100RS then onto a Lyra and now a Carton 100 I've got a good idea of the strengths and weaknesses of them.

While the TAL is good value and a good performer the Lyra is just that bit better optically and so much better built. Higher quality materials throughout as well as the superb fit and finish. One thing I have noticed is that whenever anyone has actually got their hands on the Lyra they don't want to go back to the TAL. The Lyra really is worth the difference. Also Glen at Lyra tests and adjusts every single scope before it's shipped out.

I've now got the Carton 100mm f/13 that I built myself. Essentially the same as the Skylight f/13. Optically the finest 4" scope for lunar/planetary I've ever looked through. Beat my old WO FLT98 hands down for sharpness and contrast for lunar/planetary. Not cheap but just incredible value for money when you consider what it's capable of.

John

Carton 100mm f/13 and Lyra 102mm f/11

post-1876-0-17710400-1343213376_thumb.jp

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johninderby

johninderby

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Nice scopes John !

How far apart optically are the Lyra and your homebuilt Carton, given the focal ratio difference, would you say ?.

It's more a question of how many times better the Carton is than the Lyra.

The Lyra is a very nice scope that I really liked, but one look through the Carton and the improvement in sharpness and contrast was so extreme it made me wonder what was wrong with the Lyra. Nothing wrong with the Lyra of course, it's just that the Carton is that good. It really is in a totally different class.

One thought that comes to mind frequently when using the Carton is that it's not possible for a 4" scope to perform this well. It can show planetary detail that's not there in an 8" to 10" scope.

John

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Moonshane

Moonshane

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I am hoping to do a side by side of my 16" f4 masked to 100mm (f18), 130mm (f14) and 170mm (f11) with a good quality 100mm slow achro at PSP 2012. you'd have to bring your scope to me though as I'm not carrying my 16" far from the car! on most occasions there's no comparison on double stars and planets with the 170mm aperture generally winning due to seeing conditions.

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John

John

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It's more a question of how many times better the Carton is than the Lyra.

The Lyra is a very nice scope that I really liked, but one look through the Carton and the improvement in sharpness and contrast was so extreme it made me wonder what was wrong with the Lyra. Nothing wrong with the Lyra of course, it's just that the Carton is that good. It really is in a totally different class.

One thought that comes to mind frequently when using the Carton is that it's not possible for a 4" scope to perform this well. It can show planetary detail that's not there in an 8" to 10" scope.

John

Wow !

Thats put the Carton into context.

I've heard rumours that Carton used to make optics for Tele Vue at one point. No more than that though as, with the exception of some Vixen items, TV never seem to reveal their sources.

Would Carton be the finest objectives available to the amateur then, or are there even more fabulous ones out there ?

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johninderby

johninderby

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John,

Is it still possible to get a Carton Objective??

Sheldon Faworski in the US is the main source for Carton. Can't see any at the moment in his "Cloudynights Store" but worth contacting him.

http://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/showcat.php?cat=500&ppuser=25634

You could also try contacting Glen at Lyra Optics or Richard at Skylight Telescopes but I'm not sure if they would be willing to sell any just on their own.

BTW have you seen these from Skylight Telescopes. :smiley:

http://skylight.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/daystar-filters-skylight-100mm-h-alpha-refractor

John

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Photosbykev

Photosbykev

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Sheldon Faworski in the US is the main source for Carton. Can't see any at the moment in his "Cloudynights Store" but worth contacting him.

http://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/showcat.php?cat=500&ppuser=25634

You could also try contacting Glen at Lyra Optics or Richard at Skylight Telescopes but I'm not sure if they would be willing to sell any just on their own.

BTW have you seen these from Skylight Telescopes. :smiley:

http://skylight.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/daystar-filters-skylight-100mm-h-alpha-refractor

John

beautiful looking refractor John, they won't be cheap but probably worth every penny :(

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Blame Apple for the typos and me for the content

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johninderby

johninderby

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The Skylight f/13 starts at £1,295.00 :eek: but it is a hand crafted scope with Japanese optics so it's definately one of those you get what you pay for deals. I saved a few hundred by building my own version and you're not going to see another one just like it.

One last photo of the Carton as it's normally used with the ZS80FD for wide field.

John

post-1876-0-32015000-1343230837_thumb.jp

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