And you thought it couldn't get any worse.

[Catanonia]

We moved to our house 5 years ago backing onto a farm over looking Sandbach, nice views and pretty decent skies and told the land couldn't be built upon.

We have just had a letter through the door that there will be planning proposals for a retail part literally 50 yards from our back garden as the farmer has sold his entire farm.

The plans are for a Supermarket, a gardening centre, petrol station, KFC, Starbucks (all drive through) and some office buildings.

Even though across the main road from the site is already a Waitross and a Homebase......

I am in complete shock as are all of our neighbors

All of these will invite hundreds of cars an hour into a massive chock point of Sandbach already suffering during peak hours,

The SuperMarket will back onto our gardens, so I can image the light pollution and noise in the late evenings and early mornings with people and deliveries.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, why can't they just leave things alone.

[Andrew INT]

oooh, not good. May be worth sending a letter to the local authority asking for them to be thoughtful with the flood-lighting. Best to raise issues now before the stuff is already put in place!

Good luck!

[mallorcasaint]

I hope you and your neighbours are going to object! I'd look into the change of use policy as it is being changed from farm land to retail.

[Daniel-K]

ste this is not good news at all you have a decent garden i would fight this all the way !

[euphony]

Damn...I really feel for you. That is an absolute nightmare.

As if there is that much demand for more retail parks etc when people aren't spending money willynilly now, that's crazy!

I have noticed many many fields and farms near me up for sale and most will end up being built upon eventually (as often builders buy land and hold on to it for years) and ruining the entire landscape

I noticed near me where I run on a Sunday morning that there are a group of cottages in the middle of almost nowhere. First of all, one cottage was for sale and sold, then the one next door to it was for sale and then sold. I then saw a few weeks later that the wood behind had been cut down (which neither cottage owned) and then the other day I find another cottage up for sale! One trying to sell, fair enough, but 3 right next to each other so quickly means the owners got wind of something and wanted to get out of there as soon as possible. The annoying thing is that it is idyllic for astronomy as the light pollution is almost nothing and you have so few neighbours it would be incredibly peaceful too. Gutted for the remaining couple of cottages that probably can't afford to move.

I really do wish that people would stop looking at money being the way forward and selling and ruining every natural place held dear to so many

Really gutted for you, is there no way you can object? there has to be something you can do to at least voice you and your neighbours' grievances I hope?

Chris

[Davey-T]

A friend who lived in a row of victorian terraces on the edge of our town was refused planning permission for an extension as it would "spoil the look of the terrace".

A few months later the council gave planning permission for a trading estate on farmland at the end of his garden so he had sheds twice the height of his house appear.

Guess they just want the extra council tax.

Davey-T

[Catanonia]

The proposals are up in the town hall on Tuesday with a chance for the public to discuss them. Considering I am one of 20 houses that will back immediately onto the rear of the complex we are very concerned.

I am resigned that I will probably give up astronomy if it all goes ahead as i would effectively be living on the boundary of a retail park, but having the rear of a Tesco style SuperMarket and it's car parks 50 years from my open fence line is very worrying. Our houses are obviously prime targets from the car park with a van.

The noise, traffic and volumes of people will effectively kill our peaceful surroundings.

Still in shock, our immediate neighbor is almost in tears after moving here a year ago after 10 years of living in a place that had a coop built behind her garden.

[Catanonia]

Link to the proposals.

http://www.oldmillqu...r.com/benefits/

BTW my house backs onto the northeast corner of super market.

[ampleamp]

Hmmm, gutted for you, what bad luck; i can only imagine my response to something like this. Assuming the council have already made their decision, demand as many concessions as possible from the developers such as double fence, high hedge etc, but still fight.

[JamesM]

You have my sympathies too. From what is on the map, if the car park lights aren't a pain, it looks as if they are going to be planting trees on the boundary? From a business rate point of view I don't think local councils benefit directly but with all that going on at the end of your garden I would certainly want a reduction on my council tax. The only thing that could stop this development would be wildlife, be it barn owls breeding, gold crested newts or some rare horseshoe bat colony. In fairness to the farmer, it must be increasingly difficult for them to make a living given the margins that supermarkets offer them. It seems the average joe is the one that has to negotiate progress, I just wonder where it will all end.

James

[JamesF]

If you and your neighbours really want to fight this, or at least mitigate the effect it has on you, it may well be worth looking for outside help from someone familiar with planning law. It's an arcane business and there are all sorts of things that might help if you know how to apply them. Also make sure you get the point across to your town council. They're directly elected by you, they work for you, make them earn their keep. Note that they may have very little say in the decision itself, but they might be able to help with planning law, and they may not actually be in favour of it themselves.

James

[JamesF]

The only thing that could stop this development would be wildlife, be it barn owls breeding, gold crested newts or some rare horseshoe bat colony.

It's probable that some sort of survey will be required in this respect before the development can go ahead. It's possible that CPRE and Natural England (or whatever they call themselves this week) might be able to advise there.

Your MP might also be worth contacting, though it's going to be hard to fight the argument that "it will create X jobs" in the current economic situation.

James

[cantab]

I'd suggest figuring out a way to document the current light levels in your garden at night. (Digital camera shot with everything set manually and specified maybe?) I think it will be a lot easier to show that the development is spilling intrusive light onto your property if you've proof of what the "before" situation was like.

[Catanonia]

I know we are onto a losing battle here with jobs being created etc etc. What is 20 - 40 households concerns when there is 40 million and jobs resting on it.

We have a very high hedge line between us and the field, the supermarket is supposedly going to be below the existing ground level and so chances are that We will not see it from the house and definately not from the garden. It is the noise pollution for the 2 years it will take to build it, then the light pollution it will cause and then of course the actual fact that there will be a large supermarket with all the noise, traffic, light and deliveries and not to mention the social aspects of potential crime and quality of life. Then add on the value of our house and the massive increase of traffic and noise associated to it.

If the plans are approved, then it will happen, we all know it, fact of life, it is a retail park at the end of the day, we don't count.

[Catanonia]

I'd suggest figuring out a way to document the current light levels in your garden at night. (Digital camera shot with everything set manually and specified maybe?) I think it will be a lot easier to show that the development is spilling intrusive light onto your property if you've proof of what the "before" situation was like.

Even if the light pollution was the same from my garden, the glow of a retail park next to the garden will kill the night sky for astro photography or visual. Basically if it goes ahead, I will have to sell up the house or astro photography, and it will be astro.

[laser_jock99]

Sorry to hear this bad news for you. My only advice is to go in hard with concerns about light pollution from the outset as it will be too late if (and hopefully they wont) get put up.

There's probably no such thing as land that can't be built on or otherwise ruined by nearby light pollution in some way or other. I'd like to think that the land around our house is undevelopable (70+ mineworking, pits, adits & shafts within 500m!) but I wouldn't totaly rule it out. The ground's too unstable to even consider for a windfarm but it only takes some idiot to put up a few 'security' lights and an otherwise pristine observing site would be ruined.

Good luck to you and your neighbours.

[klytus]

Really gutted for you about this, though as you suspect we the little people dont count when it comes to making money for those that don't really need it. If the proposals do get through,might it not be possible to claim compensation for having those monstrosities across from you and more importantly the loss of your hobby!!

[SteveA]

I really feel for you....I can't really imagine anything worse on the doorsteep than a development like this...sorry I know that doesn't help one iota!

If I were in your position I would be looking to sell up and get out as soon as possible....though understandably that's sometimes easier said than done.

It's not a done deal though....and there are examples of local communities rallying together to block developments....so if you really can't move you need to fight it.

Good luck ..and keep us posted...

All the best..

[SteveNickolls]

Hi Catanonia,

I feel absolutely gutted for you and your neighbours. It’s a hard fact of life that unless you own the land you can’t guarantee the views and it only takes a development to spoil everything. However the fight is not lost!

As a person living next to the proposed development the local council is obliged to involve you in the consultation (they will send you details of the proposals for your comments). I would advise you and your neighbours (you say there are 20 houses affected so perhaps a few representatives could go?) to arrange a visit to the council planning department to go through the proposals and ask questions and get the impartial advice of the planning officer over the law, relevant planning guidance and what the planning procedure can do to control light overspill and pollution. Alternatively the planning officer may be happy to meet you at your home to go through things. I would take notes and afterwards write to the officer outlining what was discussed etc. Remember too that you have more concerns than light pollution to discuss.

On the issue of numbers complaining. Petitions only carry so much weight-while individual, well written, factual letters more so. I found this quote on the Local Government Boundary Commission webpage but it holds true here- ‘In determining the strength of local opinion on an issue, sheer numbers of signatures on petitions, or the number of proforma letters received are not necessarily a true guide. They may say more for the enthusiasm and competence of the organisers than for the real views of the signatories. In practice, a well-argued representation containing detailed factual information or records is likely to carry more weight.’

It would also be an idea to involve the environmental health people at the council as they will be the ones who, if the development went ahead, and the artificial lights became ‘prejudicial to your health or a nuisance’ would have to investigate any complaint under their legislation. The environmental health service will be asked for their comments by the planners over the development as part of the planning process so and idea of their views now would be useful to you.

Contact your local councillor(s) and discuss your concerns. Twenty families are a significant number of ward voters! The councillor(s) may be willing to attend your meeting with the planners/environmental health or meet them separately on site. If you have a local ward councillor who also has a position at the authority (portfolio holder, leader or deputy leader) this can add weight to your case in the ‘corridors of power’. Get in touch with any organisation(s) such as CPRE who might be helpful to you.

It is quite possible that the council or separate departments do not support the development and in this case you will add your concerns against the development.

As mallorcasaint rightly says ask about the change of use policy as the site is being changed from farm land to retail.

I hope this helps you and your neighbours a little Catanonia.

There is more on this site-

http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/law.html

Best regards,

Steve

[sologuitarist61]

This sort of story is prevalent everywhere now. You may not know it but a field near you has probably already been purchased for redevelopment and supermarkets are the worse. They buy up land with their profits and then either sell on to a house developers or yet another Tesco/Sainsbury/Aldi/Lidl/Morrisons appears, seemingly overnight. It would appear that Councils are powerless (or should that be toothless) to stop them. What do you end up with? Three or four of the carned things within a few hundred yards of each other.

[estwing]

there only planning to build 400 more houses in my town!!!...but i'm a bricklayer and that's where i have to shut up!

[SkyJamie]

Sorry to hear this Catanonia, i know how you feel, at the bottom of my garden is a field where they have decided to build over 100 houses in it. There was a chance there could be Great Crested Newts in there so they had to do a survey. They chose to do it in april last year, the driest april in years, they didn't find anything and i'm not surprised as it was dry as a bone. So thats me going to be completely surrounded by light polltuion now.

[Astroscot2]

Dont throw the towel in, there are other options open to you , concentrate on narrowband imaging or get yourself a portable rig and travel to a dark site.

[Rob L]

I feel for you too.

I'm in a similar situation, the greenfields opposite our house have been earmarked by the local council for development with a mix of residential/industrial.

We moved out of town because we didn't want to live in a built up area. We've been here five years but we've had the estate agents around for valuations and aim to sell up.

It may take up to 5 years for any development to begin, but it will happen - so we want to get out now.

[Vince1963]

Yet again the big guy stepping on the small guy... in our capitalistic society of greed and selfishness... Don't we have enough super markets or retail parks selling us stuff we don't really need or want... They argue they are creating jobs to an ever growing human race to an ever shrinking planet... where will it end?.