Test and Comparison: Starfield 102mm F7 ED Doublet v Takahashi FC-100 DF f7.4 Doublet (Fluorite)

[Alan White]

Just now, Moonlit Knight said:

Rumour is confirmation bias is rampant on astronomy forums, and just about everywhere else. We ALL choose to believe what we want to believe 

Indeed so, nothing like Confirmation bias to assist in one’s opinion on almost anything.

[Moonlit Knight]

Just now, Alan White said:

Can I just check with Starfield owners…..

Are your scopes China made or Taiwan made? I think the latter.

Not a political point, more an are we all making correct comments folks?

Well again, and this appears to be just conjecture, but around the camp fires the rumour is the tubes are made in Taiwan, the glass is Japanese and the polish and the scope assembled in China. 
 

[F15Rules]

1 hour ago, Moonlit Knight said:

What he said…

If I go above  x 150 the floaters start to take over and ruin the view, so there’s little point really. 
 

Why not try binoviewing to help with the floaters? More comfortable than single eyes viewing, too, for many objects 🙂.

Dave

[paulastro]

1 hour ago, Alan White said:

Can I just check with Starfield owners…..

Are your scopes China made or Taiwan made? I think the latter.

Not a political point, more a are we all making correct comments folks?

I'm not sure Alan, I cant recall what it said on my Tecnosky version.  FLO can tell us, it may be on their website anyway.

[paulastro]

1 hour ago, Moonlit Knight said:

Rumour is confirmation bias is rampant on astronomy forums, and just about everywhere else. We ALL choose to believe what we want to believe 

Very true.  We also tend to disbelieve anything that is contrary  to  the views and opinions we hold, and indeed feel uncomfortable if we act contrary to beliefs we hold strongly.  A bit like a Meade enthusiast buying a Celestron SC 😅.

In psychology terms it's called cognitive dissonance.

[Ags]

One of the markers of higher intelligence is a greater level of doubt about one's core beliefs. Whereas society tends to elevate those who are "passionate" about their beliefs.

At least, that's what I tell myself. I can't make up my mind about anything! 🤣

Edited April 1, 2023 by Ags

[mikeDnight]

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Edited April 5, 2023 by mikeDnight

[mikeDnight]

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Edited April 5, 2023 by mikeDnight

[Mr Spock]

Perhaps of more concern than Conformation Bias is Expectation Bias. This can manifest itself in two ways: firstly we may spend a lot of money on something and consider it better because that's what we expect; secondly it can occur when an observer sees something they expect to see rather than what is actually there.

Unconscious bias exists in all sorts of forms. Everyone has biases. If you don't, you are probably six foot under... 

[John]

When FLO introduced the Starfield 102 ED's they stated that they were manufactured by United Optics which, I believe, is based in China:

About United Optics (united-optics.com)

That is why I mentioned Chinese rates of pay in my post.

FLO did say that the glass was Japanese though. Whether the objectives arrive completed or are cut, ground, polished etc by UO, I'm not sure. 

[John]

1 hour ago, Mr Spock said:

Perhaps of more concern than Conformation Bias is Expectation Bias. This can manifest itself in two ways: firstly we may spend a lot of money on something and consider it better because that's what we expect; secondly it can occur when an observer sees something they expect to see rather than what is actually there.

Unconscious bias exists in all sorts of forms. Everyone has biases. If you don't, you are probably six foot under... 

One way around this on forums is when a forward thinking supplier such as FLO provides equipment on a loan basis to members to try out and report back on. When I used to do comparative eyepiece reports on this forum, the eyepieces that I discussed had been loaned to me by FLO so I had no vested interest in them.

[paulastro]

2 minutes ago, John said:

One way around this on forums is when a forward thinking supplier such as FLO provides equipment on a loan basis to members to try out and report back on. When I used to do comparative eyepiece reports on this forum, the eyepieces that I discussed had been loaned to me by FLO so I had no vested interest in them.

Great, thanks for that John.  There are a few scopes I'd like to try out, I'll get onto Steve straight away!  😊

[jetstream]

7 minutes ago, John said:

One way around this on forums is when a forward thinking supplier such as FLO provides equipment on a loan basis to members to try out and report back on. When I used to do comparative eyepiece reports on this forum, the eyepieces that I discussed had been loaned to me by FLO so I had no vested interest in them.

I wonder what kind of bias this introduces !

[Sunshine]

FLO: Please send me a TOA130 for testing, I will need it for a good 5 years to conduct my tests.

Thank you! 

[John]

5 hours ago, jetstream said:

I wonder what kind of bias this introduces !

Little or none, other than increasing FLO's good reputation a little further 🙂

To their credit I was given complete freedom to post what I felt about the items, good and bad.

Probably unfeasible for FLO to enable this now - they are a somewhat larger and much busier organisation these days 🙂

It did cause a few comments from my other half when all these packages arrived though - I had to explain more than once that I had not just gone out and blown our holiday money without consulting her ! Things didn't get any better when the Skywatcher ED150 was sent in it's huge aluminium case followed by a 2nd one because the 1st had been knocked in transit 🙄

Fun times though 😀

Edited April 1, 2023 by John

[JeremyS]

29 minutes ago, John said:

Little or none, other than increasing FLO's good reputation a little further 🙂

To their credit I was given complete freedom to post what I felt about the items, good and bad.

Probably unfeasible for FLO to enable this now - they are a somewhat larger and much busier organisation these days 🙂

It did cause a few comments from my other half when all these packages arrived though - I had to explain more than once that I had not just gone out and blown our holiday money without consulting her ! Things didn't get any better when the Skywatcher ED150 was sent in it's huge aluminium case followed by a 2nd one because the 1st had been knocked in transit 🙄

Fun times though 😀

Your reviews of the SW ED 150 saved me quite a bit of money, John 👍🏻

I had been itching to get one from the time they were first announced…….😊

[Alan White]

Thanks for the UO answer John, 
I just had to check where it’s made.

To be honest so many optics are now excellent, that the incremental ‘improvement’ in cost can be challenging to spot.

I remember your many tests John and read I think all of them, one influenced my direction toward Pentax XW’s.

 

[John]

16 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Your reviews of the SW ED 150 saved me quite a bit of money, John 👍🏻

I had been itching to get one from the time they were first announced…….😊

Actually those experiences did not put me off the ED150 and I might well be tempted by one at some point. I'd pick it up personally though and get it Es Reid checked 😏

[John]

24 minutes ago, Alan White said:

 

To be honest so many optics are now excellent, that the incremental ‘improvement’ in cost can be challenging to spot.

 

 

Steve at FLO told me quite some time back that in his opinion Synta (and presumably other similar manufacturers) had the capability produce scopes to rival the very best available, should they wish and probably undercut the costs of some of the prestige brands as well. Exciting times 😀

Edited April 1, 2023 by John

[Sunshine]

52 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Your reviews of the SW ED 150 saved me quite a bit of money, John 👍🏻

I had been itching to get one from the time they were first announced…….😊

You mean to say you have or are considering a SW 150? but it’s not a Tak! my gosh, have your temperature checked, Jeremy. 🤣

[JeremyS]

32 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

You mean to say you have or are considering a SW 150? but it’s not a Tak! my gosh, have your temperature checked, Jeremy. 🤣

This was ages ago, before Takitis fully struck 😊
Actually, it was something of a spur: the recognition that if one wants the best, then it’s going to cost….

[900SL]

9 hours ago, Ags said:

One of the markers of higher intelligence is a greater level of doubt about one's core beliefs. Whereas society tends to elevate those who are "passionate" about their beliefs.

At least, that's what I tell myself. I can't make up my mind about anything! 🤣

Maybe

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by 900SL

[jetstream]

17 hours ago, Moonlit Knight said:

We ALL choose to believe what we want to believe 

Sorry you dont speak for "All" and with respect to optics the DPAC testing has sure taken this "bias" issue out of the equation, unless you dont believe in the science of it.

 

[900SL]

4 hours ago, jetstream said:

Sorry you dont speak for "All" and with respect to optics the DPAC testing has sure taken this "bias" issue out of the equation, unless you dont believe in the science of it.

 

Conversely, the DPAC testing appears to have cast SV in a bad light (a most appropriate expression, I must say ) regardless of the facts that their scopes are well made, and appear to perform admirably at smaller apertures.

Bias works in mysterious ways..

[John]

2 hours ago, 900SL said:

Conversely, the DPAC testing appears to have cast SV in a bad light (a most appropriate expression, I must say ) regardless of the facts that their scopes are well made, and appear to perform admirably at smaller apertures.

Bias works in mysterious ways..

And that particular DPAC tester had quite a long track record of knocking SV products .......