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Test and Comparison: Starfield 102mm F7 ED Doublet v Takahashi FC-100 DF f7.4 Doublet (Fluorite)


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3 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

One member mentioned Taks in 28% of his posts. That isn't taking pride in your scope, it's obsessive and damaging to the site.

If you own one and it is your only scope then it’s not unnatural or damaging, it is just a normal reflection of what is being used and enjoyed.  I imagine if you looked on a similar basis at others then you might find the same for different brands, all depending on what was owned.

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26 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

when several members complained about the same behaviour disrupting threads

People complained? seriously?

I think some must be taking things much too seriously to have wasted time complaining about any telescope or posts about it. I wonder how many complain about all the posts on the H130?

I found your comparison between the Starfield and Tak interesting and more comparisons are welcomed at least from me.

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6 minutes ago, jetstream said:

People complained? seriously?

I think some must be taking things much too seriously to have wasted time complaining about any telescope or posts about it. I wonder how many complain about all the posts on the H130?

I found your comparison between the Starfield and Tak interesting and more comparisons are welcomed at least from me.

I’m annoyed. That’s the second time you've mentioned your H130 in this Starfield vs Tak thread. Anyone would suspect you’re about to advertise the H130.

Who can I complain to? 
 

🤣

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1 minute ago, JeremyS said:

I’m annoyed. That’s the second time you've mentioned your H130 in this Starfield vs Tak thread. Anyone would suspect you’re about to advertise the H130.

Who can I complain to? 
 

🤣

Oh man, I'm laughing my head off when I should be working lol! Come in for a break and this. Many , many apologies that I talk so much about the H130!! It is however one of my 3 most used telescopes and for good reason.

Optical fragility syndrome, I'm actually starting to believe it exists. :biggrin:

One time I gave a person the 'wrong" emoji and got questioned on it lol!

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1 hour ago, Mr Spock said:

That is perfectly true, and acceptable. However, when several members complained about the same behaviour disrupting threads, I had a look into it. One member mentioned Taks in 28% of his posts. That isn't taking pride in your scope, it's obsessive and damaging to the site. Unfortunately tackling this abnormal behaviour just put a target on my back.

I really wish I hadn't started this thread. And really wish I could delete it. Like so many it had good intentions but turned into some kind of chaotic bash fest. I have had enough of SGL right now and will be taking a break. I have more important things to do, like observing...

It's the handles I don't like. One member mentions these unnecessary luxury carbunkles in 74.6% of his posts! I'm convinced he's trying to brainwash me but I am resisting.

Thanks for the comparison thread.  It's good to know I don't need to sell a kidney to own a decent telescope.

 

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Whatever our feelings, to me it is rather sad that an experienced member of this community is left feeling so bitter after taking the trouble to post a comparison report on the forum 🙁

I can recall a time when, at SGL star parties, we used to take the mickey out of the "Takahashi Alley" brigade that was found at major star parties, mostly on the grounds that they could be rather condescending to those who chose and used other brands. The brand does seem to have come to dominate a number of parts of the forum now. Perhaps SGL is becoming the new "Takahashi Alley" ?

It is also disturbing that this is continuing in other threads and the mickey being taken of other peoples views repeatedly. Not really in the spirit of what SGL is about, or was about at least.

I own a scope of the brand in question and can tell you that all this swaggering stuff is making me rather embarrassed about owning it and posting about it, rather than increasing my enjoyment. 

I'm not at all surprised that @Mr Spock (Michael) feels the need to step away for a while. I did, for a year, and have found it quite difficult to get back into the forum - it seems to have changed and, sadly, is creeping away from the things that we said set it apart from other forums. 

I have no way of knowing but I wonder if there are quite a few members who feel similarly ?

 

 

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I'm sorry Michael felt the need to leave for a while.

I do think this place is waay better than the other joint. There may be more 'action' and a deep vault of knowledge over there, but dear delusion do you have to deal with a far lower S/N ratio over there, and the usual suspects bombing every thread.

This place has, dare I say it?, more pedigree, Chums.

Edited by 900SL
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John, I agree, it's distressing for anyone to feel they have to leave SGL for such reasons.  Michael's comparison was written with a good balance and fair in my view.  

It was also very useful for those considering if they should buy the Starfield.

I have thought on some occassions some Tak owners (not all) have been too quick to recommend  a 2.5k scope to less experienced members when  in my view,  it is questionable if in fact its the best choice, and often clearly not.

It's not important what I think however.  You only have to check out what some of the most highly regarded experts there are around think.  I'm thinking of names such as Dickinson and Dyer, Ed Ting, Dennis d'Cicco, Ade Ashford and others.  None will recommend a four inch fluorite as a first telescope.  Nor will they recommend one for anyone whose interests are clearly not best met by such a scope.

Also some Tak owners do rubbish other manufacturers and type of telescopes which is not helpful to anyone.  I'm sure some will see this as banter or humour, but in my view it does sometimes go too far, and some times is offensive.

We have a duty to help people to find the scope that suits their circumstances, interests and pocket and will meet their needs if they ask for advice.  If we can't do do this in an impartial and helpful way, we can help them most by not saying anything.

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That problem is not exclusive to Tak though, often eyepiece threads end up mentioning Televue when it is not appropriate for the person enquiring.

What we have is a set of polarised views. I can honestly say I had become weary of the sniping comments made towards Tak owners from certain quarters, and have likely over reacted to things as a result. Similarly I can see how things get too much for other brand owners too which explains their feelings.

Text is very easy to misinterpret though isn’t it? I don’t read the threads in the same way as you @John, I don’t see swaggering, I just see enthusiasm.

In a spirit of moving on, how about we accept that there is responsibility on both sides, step back from the polarised views and remember what we are all here for, a shared love of astronomy. If we see threads being derailed and want them back on track, just politely say so, or report the thread and ask a mod to step in and do it for you? Let’s cut the sarcasm (myself included) and get the forum back to where it should be.

Deal?

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I think it's just a question of keeping threads "on track".

There are threads for newbies full of excellent advise on new/first scope purchases/recommendations and there are threads for the "refractor afficionados" to discuss Strehl ratings and DPAC technicalities.

Just keep it relevant to the topic of the thread in hand.

Takahashi make excellent telescopes but so do many other brands.

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Chaps and chapesses. I’ve just hidden a post which was more along the lines of what has been before. If we are all to make a change, please be kind, be considerate and tolerant of others, and let’s stop the strongly worded posts which just emphasise the polarisation.

We all look through scopes at the sky (well, I mean except those strange ones that stick a camera on them 😜😉🤣), so what is up there is more important than how we look at it.

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We are lucky to live in a time where all these good optics and products are available; in conversation with old timers in their late 70's and 80's I was told many had to make their own scopes, basically reflectors years ago. A lot of these products such as Losmandy (I think) were a product of innovation from these experiences.

 

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Well said Stu. As I always say guys let's just play nice.

I felt I took the thread off topic asking about sharpness which I thought at the time was an interesting point, however I then felt I should have begun a new thread. I haven't posted on this thread since until now.

I also notice a lot of post on here taking the mickey and I personally like a bit of banter so I personally enjoy these tho some may not but it's a forum and sometimes things get misunderstood because text isn't the same as speech.

When you are face to face and say something to someone they can fully understand your meaning instantly from your expression and tone. When you write exactly the same words some people will read and ask themselves what exactly does he mean by that, it is the weakness of the written word I think. I personally read through stuff twice before posting to try to see if there's anything that sounds offensive but still I'm always concerned how my posts will be received.

It's sad that Michael has felt so strongly that he needs to leave the forum for a rest, I for one hope he returns soon as his contributions will be sorely missed.

Come back soon Mr Spock.

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